RIP Drake Companions.

[Reksew_Trebla]

Draconic (Animal) Companion Archetype

Like god d***, literally no more reason to ever play with a Drake Companion other than pure roleplay. Gonna have to like add a feat that turns your Drake Companion into a Half-Dragon or something for anybody to ever consider playing with one now.

[taks]

I'm not sure I understand why this would render drakes obsolete?

[Reksew_Trebla]

It’s a “dragon”, has a breath weapon for free, gains the immunities to sleep and paralysis and most importantly, unlike the Drake Companion, DOESN’T trade 90% of your class to get. Oh and it will actually follow your orders 99% of the time unlike a properly GM controlled Drake Companion, since they have no obligation to you unlike Animal Companions.

[Brother Fen]

What's wrong with roleplay? That's kind of the point of the game.

[avr]

And a replacement for drakes is a good thing. Let them go, the mechanics were terrible and getting a similar flavour on a better mechanic is the way forward.

[swoosh]

Legacy of Dragons came out August of last year.

So you're like, 16 months late on RIP drake companions.

[Crazy Hassan]

On the even brighter side, the Draconic Companion means that my camels can now have a natural progression, from spitting, to spitting acid, to nauseating anything it bites with Noxious Bite.

Best deal you'll ever make!

[SorrySleeping]

It can't fly sadly.

[graystone]

SorrySleeping wrote:

It can't fly sadly.

Sure it can, it just has to come from the companions itself. ;)

[Matthew Downie]

So I can have a fire-breathing dragonfly?

[shaventalz]

Matthew Downie wrote:

So I can have a fire-breathing dragonfly?

Spitfires are one aisle over.

[lemeres]

graystone wrote:

SorrySleeping wrote:

It can't fly sadly.

Sure it can, it just has to come from the companions itself. ;)

Yeah, but a lot of classes lack proper fliers. Sure, maybe something that sits on your shoulder (taking a pseudodragon style position). But you likely need the full druid list if you want to grab something like a Roc.

[graystone]

lemeres wrote:

graystone wrote:

SorrySleeping wrote:

It can't fly sadly.

Sure it can, it just has to come from the companions itself. ;)

Yeah, but a lot of classes lack proper fliers. Sure, maybe something that sits on your shoulder (taking a pseudodragon style position). But you likely need the full druid list if you want to grab something like a Roc.

I'm not sure what makes a 'proper flier". Base Ranger has bird on it's list and a small creature isn't something I'd think could fit in a "pseudodragon style position". If you're thinking 'something you can ride' that's different than 'something that can fly': though small creatures CAN ride small mounts with a feat.

[Isabelle Lee]

Now I want to go see if a saurian champion can have a mount with this archetype. :D

[Crazy Hassan]

SorrySleeping wrote:

It can't fly sadly.

Who needs to fly when it can walk on the air itself? Better yet, by its own power no less! (Only apply a little houseruling to make things fair for the oft overlooked Camel)

[Dragonborn3]

swoosh wrote:

Legacy of Dragons came out August of last year.

So you're like, 16 months late on RIP drake companions.

Agreed. The drakes and the archetypes that gave them were just awful.

[Xenocrat]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

swoosh wrote:

Legacy of Dragons came out August of last year.

So you're like, 16 months late on RIP drake companions.

Agreed. The drakes and the archetypes that gave them were just awful.

DOA, not RIP.

[Reksew_Trebla]

Brother Fen wrote:

What's wrong with roleplay? That's kind of the point of the game.

There’s nothing wrong with roleplaying. There is something wrong with solely letting roleplaying dictate how you build your character, thus getting everyone else’s characters killed as a result of you being a weak link.

[PossibleCabbage]

Isabelle Lee wrote:

Now I want to go see if a saurian champion can have a mount with this archetype. :D

I think this works, since a Cavalier's animal companion works like a druid's (except for needing to be a specific kind of creature) except that it doesn't get share spells. This would be a problem, but the clever folks who wrote Ultimate Wilderness anticipated this via:

Quote:

A cavalier or samurai mount can take animal companion archetypes that replace share spells by replacing the mount’s Light Armor Proficiency feat and its master’s ability to ignore the armor check penalty on Ride checks, but only if the master didn’t alter or replace those abilities with an archetype

and it doesn't look like the Saurian Champion alters or replaces either of those. Dinosaur Mount is kind of surprising in that it is no-way weakened compared to the base mount, which I guess is why it's traded for the tactician chain. Saurian Champion only has light armor proficiency, so ignoring ACP for ride checks is a non-issue, so the only loss is that you can't armor your dinosaur right out of the gate. Now I just have to figure out the best dinosaur for this- I kind of want to play a gnome on a deinonychus.

[Ryan Freire]

taks wrote:

I'm not sure I understand why this would render drakes obsolete?

I feel like obsolete is a bad term, given that they were never in vogue to begin with.

[Senko]

I'd still prefer a grimalkin, also you lose share spells which would put me off this archetype.

[taks]

Ryan Freire wrote:

taks wrote:

I'm not sure I understand why this would render drakes obsolete?

I feel like obsolete is a bad term, given that they were never in vogue to begin with.

I get that...

[taks]

Frankly, I'm not an AC fan, and I can't say I really use familiars to their potential, either. I like to focus on my guy (or gal), I guess.

[Nox Aeterna]

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Brother Fen wrote:

What's wrong with roleplay? That's kind of the point of the game.

There’s nothing wrong with roleplaying. There is something wrong with solely letting roleplaying dictate how you build your character, thus getting everyone else’s characters killed as a result of you being a weak link.

Even if you say that, like others said in this thread... drakes have always being horrid to say the least.

They was never any reason at all to ever play any of those archetypes other than roleplay from the get go and you had to understand you would only be weaker than if you had never taken any.

They are quite literally traps.

[Alex Smith 908]

SorrySleeping wrote:

It can't fly sadly.

Giant vulture mount supremacy strikes again.

[JiCi]

The problems with drakes are simples:
- They start as Tiny creatures; yeah, you need to wait until 9th level or even 13th level to make it mountable, that is if you take the Mount power.
- No power to increase size, it's only dictated by levels.
- They are nongood aligned... pretty counter-intuitive for the Silver Champion archetype, which is for Paladins.
- No complete package, as flight, breath weapons and other movement speeds are broken down into multiple powers.
- The breath weapons are fireball effects instead of your standard line or cone.

The Draconic companion has less features, but what it has is far better. Beside, anyone remember Dragon Magic with its dragonblood creatures? Yeah, pretty good callback.

[Reksew_Trebla]

Senko wrote:

I'd still prefer a grimalkin, also you lose share spells which would put me off this archetype.

Well, Share Spells is useless for most people with the feat Animal Ally, because they don’t have spells. Also non-spellcasting archetypes of classes like Mad Dog Barbarian. And finally, you can use this with the Cavalier due to the ruling about how archetypes for animal companions work with that class.

Nox Aeterna wrote:

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Brother Fen wrote:

What's wrong with roleplay? That's kind of the point of the game.

There’s nothing wrong with roleplaying. There is something wrong with solely letting roleplaying dictate how you build your character, thus getting everyone else’s characters killed as a result of you being a weak link.

Even if you say that, like others said in this thread... drakes have always being horrid to say the least.

They was never any reason at all to ever play any of those archetypes other than roleplay from the get go and you had to understand you would only be weaker than if you had never taken any.

They are quite literally traps.

Then make one of the other players play a Rogue so they can disable the trap, duh.

[Raviiiii]

Share Spells can be replaced with Light Armor proficiency(which I dont think a saurian champion would be making too much use of anyways, being practically a dinosaur barbarian thats good at riding things.)

Ranger's drake companion(at level 6-7) and shaman's is usable, since they can hack reality with SkySwim. Even that's pretty late though.

They're bad. There needs to be a drake power feat and probably the option to forgo size increases for stat increase or a drake power.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like the drake stuff from Legacy of Dragons could use a polish and an additional pass through the development process, so it's the sort of thing that *could* be okay if they wanted to reprint it in a hardback. It would be one of the rare things reprinted in a hardback that is made better, I guess.

[Senko]

Ah I was thinking ranger and their spells for this.

Hmm I wonder what happens if you take this to make a Draconic Drake? Especially if you try to mix bloodlines so it has its own abilities and this from a different one.

[master_marshmallow]

We definitely could use an RPG Line Draconomicon equivalent.

[Jurassic Pratt]

I don't think you can make a Draconic Drake. They're explicitly not animal companions so I'm pretty sure they can't take animal companion archetypes.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

master_marshmallow wrote:

We definitely could use an RPG Line Draconomicon equivalent.

Oh so much want

[Reksew_Trebla]

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

I don't think you can make a Draconic Drake. They're explicitly not animal companions so I'm pretty sure they can't take animal companion archetypes.

They also don’t have the stuff to trade out for the archetypes.

[PossibleCabbage]

master_marshmallow wrote:

We definitely could use an RPG Line Draconomicon equivalent.

Definitely way more excited to pick that up than Book of the Damned...

[JiCi]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

master_marshmallow wrote:

We definitely could use an RPG Line Draconomicon equivalent.

Definitely way more excited to pick that up than Book of the Damned...

Care to tell me what is wrong with that book?

[666bender]

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Draconic (Animal) Companion Archetype

Like god d***, literally no more reason to ever play with a Drake Companion other than pure roleplay. Gonna have to like add a feat that turns your Drake Companion into a Half-Dragon or something for anybody to ever consider playing with one now.

1. it cant fly.

2. it wont look like a dragon .

so.......... Drake is still >>> better in may aspect.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Couldn't tell you their perspective, but I'd much rather have an awesome book with viable neat dragon options that can be used effectively than icky dead evil junk.

[JiCi]

666bender wrote:

Reksew_Trebla wrote:

Draconic (Animal) Companion Archetype

Like god d***, literally no more reason to ever play with a Drake Companion other than pure roleplay. Gonna have to like add a feat that turns your Drake Companion into a Half-Dragon or something for anybody to ever consider playing with one now.

1. it cant fly.

2. it wont look like a dragon .

so.......... Drake is still >>> better in may aspect.

A drake:

- doesn't have a fly speed to begin with
- needs to take 3 powers to gain a decent fly speed
- needs to have a charge that is 13th level
- needs a 4th power to be usable as a mount and a 5th power to be used as a mount WITHOUT droppoing the fly speed

While your Draconic companion won't look like a dragon, it will be close to one. Beside, I don't see an issue with a Silver giant owl, a Green giant vulture or a Bronze roc, nor won't I have a problem with a Red wolf or tiger.

[PossibleCabbage]

JiCi wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

master_marshmallow wrote:

We definitely could use an RPG Line Draconomicon equivalent.

Definitely way more excited to pick that up than Book of the Damned...

Care to tell me what is wrong with that book?

I confess I have not read the entire book, but from what I've seen flipping through it in the shop it just doesn't have anything in it I'm liable to ever use. That's pretty much it. Other people might want to play characters with ties to devils and such or run games primarily about evil outsiders, but I prefer to do neither so it's not really a book for me.

[Rogar Stonebow]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

JiCi wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

master_marshmallow wrote:

We definitely could use an RPG Line Draconomicon equivalent.

Definitely way more excited to pick that up than Book of the Damned...

Care to tell me what is wrong with that book?

I confess I have not read the entire book, but from what I've seen flipping through it in the shop it just doesn't have anything in it I'm liable to ever use. That's pretty much it. Other people might want to play characters with ties to devils and such or run games primarily about evil outsiders, but I prefer to do neither so it's not really a book for me.

I really hate what they did to the Diabolist.

The imp companion is no longer special.