Do I have fame and reputation right


Starfinder Society

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Fame & Reputation work differently in SFS than they do in PFS and it is kind of confusing so I want to make sure I am doing this right.

So during character creation I apply the Wayfinder Champion boon to the character for free as I get one faction champion boon for free during character generation.

In my first game I slot Wayfinder Champion. We succeed in both Primary & Secondary conditions, so I get 2 Reputation towards the Wayfinders and 2 fame, which is generic.
Current total:
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 2

In my second game I slot Wayfinder Champion again. The scenario has a bonus Dataphiles success condition which the party met and we succeeded in the primary, but not secondary condition. But I slotted Wayfinder Champion, so I don't get the Dataphile bonus. I earn only 1 Reputation towards the Wayfinders and 1 fame. Unfortunately I caught a disease so I spend 1 fame for a Remove Affliction casting.
Current total:
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 3

In my third game, I find out the scenario has a bonus for Exo-Guardians, so I spend 2 fame to buy the Exo-Guardian Champion faction boon and slot that instead of the Wayfinder Champion boon. We succeed in the primary, secondary and faction success conditions (which earns 1 extra reputation but no extra fame).
Current total:
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 3
Dataphile Reputation: 3

I am doing this correctly?

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Correction of final total:
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 3
Exo-Guardians Reputation: 3

Dark Archive 4/5

If the scenario awards bonus reputation for helping a particular faction, anyone who meets the criteria for the bonus reputation gets it, regardless of faction slotted. Thus you could have a handful of reputation for factions you do not actually have the faction boon for. I believe you would still need to purchase said faction's boon to actually use fame to purchase any of their specific rewards, but the extra reputation would still count towards the total for any purchasable generic (non-faction specific) rewards.

So in your example, you would also have have 1 reputation for the Dataphiles due to the second scenario reward.

Dataphiles 4/5 5/55/5

1st game
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 2

2nd game
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 3
Dataphiles Reputation: 1 (this bonus reputation is in addition to [as per pg.7 "applying credit" and pg. 19 "Faction Tag Scenarios" of the guide])

3rd game
Fame: 2
Wayfinder Reputation: 3
Datphiles Reputation: 1
Exo-Guardians Reputation: 3

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Wow, read the guide 3 times and I still can't get it right.

5/5 5/55/5

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I've played under 6 gm's, and not a single one agrees on how reputation works. it's very confusing without examples in the players guide.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

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roysier wrote:
I've played under 6 gm's, and not a single one agrees on how reputation works. it's very confusing without examples in the players guide.

Good to know it's not just me getting old.

5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, California—Orangevale aka Harrowed Wizard

I have been awarding reputation like Alanya has suggested, however my biggest concern is that right now the reporting system here at Paizo doesn't really support awarding multiple faction reputation gain.

I've also talked with a couple of non-local GMs at a Con a few weeks back, and some of them were under the impression that you could only gain the bonus reputation if you had the Champion Boon slotted. They both expressed that is what their (different) area GMs had been doing.

I personally would like an example of how to award that bonus reputation or something.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

The award of bonus reputation is clearly explained in the scenario. Not sure why they would not do what is outlined there.

After all, specific (the scenario) overrules the general (the guide).

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

This is an example of how bonus reputation was handled in one scenario.

Faction Notes wrote:
If the PCs completed the secondary success conditions, they impress the [REDACTED] faction. Each PC earns 1 additional Reputation with the [REDACTED] faction, in addition to any other Reputation earned as a result of completing this scenario.

Does that help?

Dark Archive 4/5

Also, there's a check box when reporting a scenario that asks if the special faction objective was fulfilled. This is immediately following the A-D check boxes, meaning either the entire table gets it, or no one gets it. If checked, it awards the bonus reputation to everyone at the table. If nothing else, this is a clear indicator that everyone at the table is supposed to get it, regardless of faction slotted.

Sovereign Court Venture-Agent, West Virginia—Parkersburg aka xmiyux

Alanya wrote:
Also, there's a check box when reporting a scenario that asks if the special faction objective was fulfilled. This is immediately following the A-D check boxes, meaning either the entire table gets it, or no one gets it. If checked, it awards the bonus reputation to everyone at the table. If nothing else, this is a clear indicator that everyone at the table is supposed to get it, regardless of faction slotted.

Well dang. I have reported like 12 Starfinder tables and never seen that box. So much ugh.

Sovereign Court Venture-Agent, West Virginia—Parkersburg aka xmiyux

Though I do have another question. How are you guys recording this on the chronicle sheets?

I have been making my players list their factions at the bottom of the sheet in those spaces and then I add any reputation earned in the first dashed line by the faction and have them keep a running total for that faction in the second dashed line.

Is that what others are doing?

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

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xmiyux wrote:

Though I do have another question. How are you guys recording this on the chronicle sheets?

I have been making my players list their factions at the bottom of the sheet in those spaces and then I add any reputation earned in the first dashed line by the faction and have them keep a running total for that faction in the second dashed line.

Is that what others are doing?

Actually, that is not correct. I refer you to page 14 of the SFS Guide, Filling out a chronicle sheet.

In step one, players fill out the beginning values for XP, Fame, Credits, and then at the bottom, "list the factions for which her character earned Reputation during the adventure and her current Reputation with those factions (in the dashed line)." (added my me)
In step three, the GM then updates the new total Reputation for each faction based on the Fame earned or any bonus Reputation earned.

So if the player starts the adventure with 3 Reputation for Wayfinders, has the Wayfinder Champion slotted and earns 2 Fame, the first dash line would have "3" and the second dash line would have "5".

The process is just enough different from PFS that it took me at least 4 times reading it over and thinking about it to understand what they want us to do.

Hopefully Step 3 can be written to be a little more clear.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

As with my own issue, I am thinking examples in the guide would be really, really helpful.

I realize they want to avoid this as it just makes the guide bigger and more intimidating, but in this case I think it warrants it.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I agree Bill!

Sovereign Court Venture-Agent, West Virginia—Parkersburg aka xmiyux

Thanks for the clarification. I had the lines flipped. Will have to correct that in the future!

Dark Archive 3/5 5/55/5

Gary Bush wrote:

This is an example of how bonus reputation was handled in one scenario.

Faction Notes wrote:
If the PCs completed the secondary success conditions, they impress the [REDACTED] faction. Each PC earns 1 additional Reputation with the [REDACTED] faction, in addition to any other Reputation earned as a result of completing this scenario.
Does that help?

Sadly, this does not help me because of the text in the Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide (page 22) citing:

“FACTION BOON SLOT
Every faction offers unique boons that allow a character to champion that faction... These boons allow the character to earn Reputation with the associated faction after successfully completing a scenario. Throughout a character’s career, she can purchase additional faction champion boons to allow her to champion additional factions.” From this text, to me, it is clear that only slotted faction is able to be accrued.

So this would imply success indicates eligibility, but accrual only happens when the additional [scenario tagged] point aligns with the slotted faction champion. Further, the indication in several scenarios stating “This scenario is of high importance to the [scenario tagged] faction, and PCs should be encouraged to slot this faction as one of their boons.” makes little, if any, sense if you get the extra point anyway.

As to the scenario bonus button mentioned in reporting, I have not tried it but this could be a faction selective toggle with the intent being only tagged factions receive the extra point.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

The Guide is the General Rule. The Adventure is a Specific rule. So the specific rule in the adventure granting additional reputation overrides the general rule that only the faction that has a slotted champion boon gains reputation.

It is that simple. You are over thinking it.

The process works like this....

At the start of an adventure, a player slots a Faction Champion, lets say Wayfinders. The adventure has a tag of Dataphiles. If the character completes the required success conditions to gain an additional reputation point with the Dataphiles, they gain that reputation. The character would also gain (let's assume) 2 Fame and 2 reputation for their slotted champion, Wayfinders.

There is no faction selective toggle currently in reporting. The reporting system is not intended to track that.

Something else to keep in mind. Not all scenarios will have a faction tag.

Page 5 of the Guide under the Faction tag wrote:
This tag generally corresponds to scenarios with additional Reputation awards for the association factions. {emphasis added}

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
to me, it is clear that only slotted faction is able to be accrued.

^ this is definitely incorrect.

You can actually accrue Reputation with as many as four different Factions in a single Adventure.

One need only look to the bottom of the Chronicle Sheet to see a system in place for tracking more than one Faction in any given scenario.

5/5 5/55/55/5

I think you could theoretically get 6

2 factions bonus in a mission

1 slotted faction in a minor faction

1 play outside of your region for the wayfinders metaboon

1` in a retail supported location for acquisitives

and bring a friend with you for the second seeker LE boon. (and to split gas money)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Hmm maybe I *should* change my next Chronicle version back to six...

5/5 5/55/55/5

Nefreet wrote:
Hmm maybe I *should* change my next Chronicle version back to six...

Edge cases are why there are margins and arrows

That and screwups.

Dark Archive 3/5 5/55/5

Gary Bush wrote:

The Guide is the General Rule. The Adventure is a Specific rule. So the specific rule in the adventure granting additional reputation overrides the general rule that only the faction that has a slotted champion boon gains reputation.

Page 5 of the Guide under the Faction tag wrote:
This tag generally corresponds to scenarios with additional Reputation awards for the association factions. {emphasis added}

Nowhere in any scenario with a faction tag, which I reviewed, does it indicate that the general rule is voided (the general rule indicating that only the slotted faction can be accrued on p.22). That is an interpretation not supported directly in the text. The interpretation I have provided does not have anyone reading into the text that which is not explicitly stated. I am not saying that this in not ambiguous. I feel that it is. But I am indicating my interpretation does not have me reading into what I feel the developers meant.

Nefreet wrote:
Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
to me, it is clear that only slotted faction is able to be accrued.

^ this is definitely incorrect.

You can actually accrue Reputation with as many as four different Factions in a single Adventure.

One need only look to the bottom of the Chronicle Sheet to see a system in place for tracking more than one Faction in any given scenario.

I disagree. To me, this is merely a placeholder for the transcription of the faction reputation totals. If it were as you suggest, then there should be one blank for each of the five factions as well as any secondary factions that will come along. There are not enough blanks to track each faction. This, again in my interpretation, indicates that the society does not consider that more than three factions will be purchased to support.

Neither of these objections address why the few scenarios I reviewed would prompt player to slot the faction tagged in the specific scenario. If the players are getting the additional faction anyway during play passively and there is no added benefit for being that faction during play (in the scenarios I reviewed there were no benefits) why prompt the slotting? I have a difficulty believing that writers would prompt the slotting of a faction, which if it is not your original faction, you would have to pay for without reason. What would be the rationale for doing this?

It is not that I cannot see there is ambiguity here. I have an open mind on this. That said, the belief that the additional reputation is automatically accrued requires interpretation which is directly forbade. And there is not explicit caveat directly stated regarding this case. As I recall, at release this was how I was directed to report by staffers. I came here hoping for an official ruling one way or the other by a developer or other member able to provide such.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Here we go

You gain the extra faction Reputation regardless of your specific champion boon. The intent is that a character might end up with a handful of Reputation in factions they don't typically champion, just by virtue of playing scenarios associated with those factions.

Straight from our insect overlords mou..mandible.. things...

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Thanks for finding that.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
I came here hoping for an official ruling one way or the other by a developer or other member able to provide such.

While official answers are nice, just as with Pathfinder Society, you may not get one in the timeframe you have in mind. Thurston is very active, but if he sees that you've been given the same answer multiple times he may not feel the need to reiterate it again. Often the answers you're getting originated from someone higher up when that poster asked the same question earlier (as in this case).

There used to be a good quote from the PFS Forum by a member of Leadership that addressed this sort of interaction, but I can't find it now. It was becoming common for people to ask questions and ignore answers from anyone who wasn't a Paizo employee, which is really a harmful behavior to indulge in a community. Why ask a question if you're not interested in an answer?

If you're only interested in hearing from employees, you can search their posts using keywords to find if they've already answered your question. That's usually what we'll do to find "official" answers. You can even PM them directly (although we'd obviously rather you engage us first ^_^). A community is a resource. Don't discount it so quickly.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:


. That said, the belief that the additional reputation is automatically accrued requires interpretation which is directly forbade

Wow... no.

You are not allowed to contradict the rules. You are allowed to use common sense, reason, and evidence in order to interpret them. PFS is not a sola raw campaign, if for no other reason than raw without interpretation doesn't exist.

Dark Archive 3/5 5/55/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Here we go

You gain the extra faction Reputation regardless of your specific champion boon. The intent is that a character might end up with a handful of Reputation in factions they don't typically champion, just by virtue of playing scenarios associated with those factions.

Thanks for that. That was exactly what I (and a few others) spent the better part of eight hours looking for outside of this forum. I am used to legalease an if X then only X. Not really used to if X then only X and sometimes Y, where acquisition of Y is not specifically called out.

This shall be applied forward and retroacted where I can.

As to the comunity “trust us, this is how it works” I have been burned far too many times trusting that approach where something appeared to me to be disallowed, sadly. So, at that point, I start looking until I find definitive evidence one way or the other from an official or one of my upper venture officers. Even then there have been instances of a VO being incorrect on rules.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

So if I find the "official" quote that tells you to listen to the community, where would that leave you?

The direction you're going will leave you more "burnt" than you imagine.

Dark Archive 3/5 5/55/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:


. That said, the belief that the additional reputation is automatically accrued requires interpretation which is directly forbade

Wow... no.

You are not allowed to contradict the rules. You are allowed to use common sense, reason, and evidence in order to interpret them. PFS is not a sola raw campaign, if for no other reason than raw without interpretation doesn't exist.

I was not referring to interpretation, but rather to the point accrual being forbade as cited on page 22of the guide. I could have written that better, sorry.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Remember, "RAW" is just "My interpretation trumps your interpretation".

Dark Archive 3/5 5/55/5

Nefreet wrote:

So if I find the "official" quote that tells you to listen to the community, where would that leave you?

The direction you're going will leave you more "burnt" than you imagine.

If you had found the official ruling, you would have found me happy, as I am. When the official quote regarding Thurstons ruling was found. I do not feel burnt but rather aided, which is what I was looking for. And I thanked the person whom did aid me. I then forwarded the correct interpretation on to the involved parties locally.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Nefreet wrote:
Thanks for finding that.

"Dig" and "Fetch" are two of my trained tricks

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Here we go

You gain the extra faction Reputation regardless of your specific champion boon. The intent is that a character might end up with a handful of Reputation in factions they don't typically champion, just by virtue of playing scenarios associated with those factions.

Straight from our insect overlords mou..mandible.. things...

I knew I had read it. Just didn't have time to go and find it.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

The Guide is the General Rule. The Adventure is a Specific rule. So the specific rule in the adventure granting additional reputation overrides the general rule that only the faction that has a slotted champion boon gains reputation.

Page 5 of the Guide under the Faction tag wrote:
This tag generally corresponds to scenarios with additional Reputation awards for the association factions. {emphasis added}
Nowhere in any scenario with a faction tag, which I reviewed, does it indicate that the general rule is voided (the general rule indicating that only the slotted faction can be accrued on p.22). That is an interpretation not supported directly in the text. The interpretation I have provided does not have anyone reading into the text that which is not explicitly stated. I am not saying that this in not ambiguous. I feel that it is. But I am indicating my interpretation does not have me reading into what I feel the developers meant.

I was going to continue the debate but BNW found the post that directly answered your question.

I can understand your hesitation about being burned. But there are a number of trust worth folks on these forums. It just takes time to realize who they are.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
So if I find the "official" quote that tells you to listen to the community, where would that leave you?
If you had found the official ruling, you would have found me happy, as I am.

Then here you go ^_^

John Compton wrote:
I would like to reiterate what others have said in this thread and in others: the Pathfinder Society community--both online and off--is a very helpful one that is lucky to have so many knowledgeable volunteers and long-time participants who are happy to answer questions. Collectively, they have an institutional knowledge of past rulings and developments that often rivals our own, and this community is an incredible asset in assisting beginners and gaming veterans alike. I strongly recommend you consider what they have to say, and even if they are not the ruling authority on the campaign, they are human beings who know a great deal, are happy to share that knowledge, and deserve no less respect than anyone else.

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Maybe we would be better off explaining how Reputation and Fame work in SFS by using the rules to the game, 'Fizzbin' as a comparison.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

This is my 17-second explanation:

  • Completing an Adventure earns you XP, Credits and Fame
  • For every 3xp you acquire, your PC goes up a Level.
  • Credits are the monetary resource of Starfinder that you spend to purchase gear.
  • Fame is a non-monetary resource that you may exchange for a variety of rewards.
  • For each point of Fame you earn, you also accrue an equal amount of Reputation with your Faction.
  • Reputation is not a resource; it represents how well known you are within your Faction(s).
  • Some adventures grant you bonus Reputation with one or more of the Factions.
  • Accruing Reputation with a Faction unlocks access to unique rewards that you can acquire using Fame.

    The less I played PFS, and the more I played SFS, the easier it became to understand. When I describe the above system to new players who have no experience with PFS, it seems to be understood easily.

  • Dark Archive 3/5 5/55/5

    Nefreet wrote:
    Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
    Nefreet wrote:
    So if I find the "official" quote that tells you to listen to the community, where would that leave you?
    If you had found the official ruling, you would have found me happy, as I am.

    Then here you go ^_^

    John Compton wrote:
    I would like to reiterate what others have said in this thread and in others: the Pathfinder Society community--both online and off--is a very helpful one that is lucky to have so many knowledgeable volunteers and long-time participants who are happy to answer questions. Collectively, they have an institutional knowledge of past rulings and developments that often rivals our own, and this community is an incredible asset in assisting beginners and gaming veterans alike. I strongly recommend you consider what they have to say, and even if they are not the ruling authority on the campaign, they are human beings who know a great deal, are happy to share that knowledge, and deserve no less respect than anyone else.

    Thanks, I will forward this on to my venture officer that stated something equivalent to: “I don’t care if the author on the post IS the author of the scenario as well. If they don’t have a dev tag or it isn’t Mike Brock, their opinions don’t matter”. As you can tell this was from a number of years back when the individual was only a VL. And while he and I don’t specifically see eye to eye, I do follow the dictates handed down to me from VO’s of higher rank I fall under. As this counters his mandate I will forward it to him if he ever states this again.

    Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

    Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
    Pradeep Pradjeet wrote:
    my venture officer that stated something equivalent to: “I don’t care if the author on the post IS the author of the scenario as well. If they don’t have a dev tag or it isn’t Mike Brock, their opinions don’t matter"

    That is a very toxic and antisocial attitude, IMO. This Campaign didn't spread worldwide by sticking our fingers in our ears.

    Your VO probably never reads the GM Discussion Forum. Authors give their insights and answer questions all the time over there.

    The Exchange 1/5 5/55/55/55/5 Venture-Agent aka Shaudius

    It really depends on context, I wholeheartedly agree with "I strongly recommend you consider what they have to say, and even if they are not the ruling authority on the campaign, they are human beings who know a great deal, are happy to share that knowledge, and deserve no less respect than anyone else."

    At the same time, non-official rulings are just that. While they should inform your decision making as a GM as to how you adjudicate the game, they are not authoritative and GMs should not feel obligated to follow them.

    This is why you often see online statements like, "The rules on this are unclear, here is how I would run it, but expect table variation" versus "This is the correct way to run this thing."

    While I don't agree with the glibness of "I don’t care if the author on the post IS the author of the scenario as well. If they don’t have a dev tag or it isn’t Mike Brock, their opinions don’t matter" the underlying idea isn't completely incorrect, because, again, unofficial statements are just that. I definitely take into consideration at my table to the words of the scenario author, for instance, when interpreting something, as I believe most good GMs do, I don't believe anyone is under any obligation to do so.

    The Exchange

    Nefreet wrote:

    This is my 17-second explanation:

  • Completing an Adventure earns you XP, Credits and Fame
  • For every 3xp you acquire, your PC goes up a Level.
  • Credits are the monetary resource of Starfinder that you spend to purchase gear.
  • Fame is a non-monetary resource that you may exchange for a variety of rewards.
  • For each point of Fame you earn, you also accrue an equal amount of Reputation with your Faction.
  • Reputation is not a resource; it represents how well known you are within your Faction(s).
  • Some adventures grant you bonus Reputation with one or more of the Factions.
  • Accruing Reputation with a Faction unlocks access to unique rewards that you can acquire using Fame.

    The less I played PFS, and the more I played SFS, the easier it became to understand. When I describe the above system to new players who have no experience with PFS, it seems to be understood easily.

  • May I suggest ‘you accrue an equal amount of Reputation with the Faction whose Boon you slotted at the start of the scenario’ and adding later ‘you earn this bonus reputation even if you do not possess the boon for the corresponding faction, and/or in addition to any reputation gained with that faction from fame in this scenario.’

    Presuming I’ve got this right...

    Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5

    Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

    That is more verbose, but correct.

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