Using a non-reach weapon as a reach weapon?


Rules Questions


Are there ways to use a non-reach weapon as a reach weapon?

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There are ways to increase the natural reach of a character. This might accomplish what you're after.
Here's some of the ways this can be done:

  • The Bloodrager's Aberrant bloodline increases your natural reach by 5 feet during raging when you've reached fourth level.
  • For a Swashbuckler, or another class with the panache feature, Swordmaster's Flair Blue Scarf increases the user's reach with one handed or light piercing weapons by 5 feet. Characters without panache can use the item once per day.
  • The Long Arm spell increases the caster's natural reach by 5 feet.


What I'm after is what I said.

Silver Crusade

Lunge feat, but requires +6bab


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Semi-Ninja'd due to the web page flaking out, but:

Aberrant Sorcerer Bloodline 3rd level power. One of the better 3rd level powers, but on the downside, it doesn't increase the area you threaten -- just lets you make normal attacks further away.

Aberrant Bloodrager Bloodline 4th level power. One of the better 4th level powers, and it doesn't say that it doesn't increase the area you threaten, so it's actually better than the Sorcerer version. The downside of it is that you can only use it while in Bloodrage (or Barbarian Rage), and Skald's Inspired Rage doesn't substitute for this unless the Skald is 20th level; however, the Rage spell does.

Lunge feat. Monkey Lunge makes it better. It doesn't increase the area you threaten -- just lets you make normal attacks farther away.

Combat Patrol feat. Inverse of Lunge -- it doesn't increase your reach for making normal attacks, but increases your threatened area. Has 2 prerequisite feats and BAB +5 prerequisite, but you're going to want them even if you somehow got this feat prerequisite-free (such as Urban Hunter's 12th level bonus feats). On the big downside, it takes a Full-Round Action to use, so you can't actually use it with Lunge (or most other things) unless you somehow get extra actions or somehow reduce its action cost.

Long Arm spell. Doesn't say it doesn't increase your threatened area, and it stacks with either type of Aberrant Bloodline.

Enlarge Person and various Polymorph spells that let you increase your size while still wielding your weapons (Giant Form(*), Monstrous Physique II or higher(**), Undead Anatomy II or higher(***)).

(*)Available to Alchemists and 9/9 casters.

(**)Useful levels of this available to Alchemists/Investigators, Bloodragers, and Magi as well as 9/9 casters.

(***)Useful levels of this available to Alchemists/Investigators, Magi, and 9/9 casters, but not to Bloodragers.

Goliath Druid Wild Shape (starting at 6th level -- turn into a Giant, even though you need 12th level to get all the abilities provided by Giant Form I).

A Dwarven Dorn-Dergar lets you switch it between Reach and Non-Reach modes. Needs multiple feats to make this good.

A Whip lets you attack both Reach and non-Reach without switching modes, but you need extra feats to actually threaten at Reach, and even then you don't threaten out to its full range. You get the same deal with a Scorpion Whip if you are proficient with both.

I have probably missed some weird feats and other weapons (and probably some magic weapons and other magic items) that also let you do this.


None of that makes a non-reach weapon into a reach weapon.


So then... no.


^Sure it does in all but name (and with the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, even in name) -- any of the above gets you Reach when you wouldn't have had it before, and you can use a weapon with it. Note that if you are Large, weapons of appropriate size for you automatically have 10' reach if they would not have been Reach weapons if you were Medium.


Anarchy there is no way to do that, not with PF official rules anyway.

There might be something that is 3rd party, but I dont know of it.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Sure it does in all but name (and with the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, even in name) -- any of the above gets you Reach when you wouldn't have had it before, and you can use a weapon with it. Note that if you are Large, weapons of appropriate size for you automatically have 10' reach if they would not have been Reach weapons if you were Medium.

He wants the non-reach weapon to be a reach weapon without multiclassing, having to use an action to change the reach on the weapon, or use a feat tree. That is pretty much what I figured from his opening post.


if you don't plan on using it in non reach mode maybe talk to your dm about creating your own weapon


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Anarchy_Kanya wrote:
Are there ways to use a non-reach weapon as a reach weapon?

In general, no. There are a few magic items which can accomplish this.

Lashing Shadowcraft weapons can gain an extra 5' of reach as a swift action.

• The Fighter's Fork is a trident that can be extended as a swift action.

• Depending on the weapon, the Transformative Special Ability might be able to turn into other weapon types that have reach.

• A weapon with the Greater Transformative Special Ability can definitely turn into other weapon types that have reach.

• The Bladed Belt offers similar possibilities.

There is also the Spear Dancing Reach feat for weapons in the polearms or spears groups.


wraithstrike wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Sure it does in all but name (and with the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, even in name) -- any of the above gets you Reach when you wouldn't have had it before, and you can use a weapon with it. Note that if you are Large, weapons of appropriate size for you automatically have 10' reach if they would not have been Reach weapons if you were Medium.
He wants the non-reach weapon to be a reach weapon without multiclassing, having to use an action to change the reach on the weapon, or use a feat tree. That is pretty much what I figured from his opening post.

Whips don't need an action to change between non-Reach and Reach, but you do need to pile on a few feats to make them good.

If you are an Alchemist, Bloodrager(*), Goliath Druid, or Magus, you don't need to multiclass to use the magic-based options; you need an initial action to use the spell or supernatural ability, but thereafter no extra actions (unless you are in a pitched battle so long that the spell duration runs out).

(*)If you are 11th level, you get Greater Bloodrage, which lets you fire up your 4th level power and cast Long Arm or Enlarge person at the same time, and entering Bloodrage is a Free Action, so this actually saves you on action economy.


wraithstrike wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Sure it does in all but name (and with the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, even in name) -- any of the above gets you Reach when you wouldn't have had it before, and you can use a weapon with it. Note that if you are Large, weapons of appropriate size for you automatically have 10' reach if they would not have been Reach weapons if you were Medium.

He wants the non-reach weapon to be a reach weapon without multiclassing, having to use an action to change the reach on the weapon, or use a feat tree. That is pretty much what I figured from his opening post.

Well if that's true then my earlier post can be disregarded.


Oops, forgot about Spear Dancing Reach; since this is the tail end of a feat tree, note that Spear Dancing Style removes Reach. Cool feat tree, but sure is feat-intensive.

To sum up my post just before: If you don't want to multiclass (understandable), don't want to take a bunch of feats (understandable), and you don't want to spend actions to change Reach (understandable), go Aberrant Bloodrager all the way. It's a good Bloodline -- the 1st level Bloodline Power is not bad, and all the rest of the Bloodline Powers are really good; the bonus spells are good (even includes Enlarge Person, so that the only other spells you need to be careful not to miss are Long Arm and Rage, and optionally Monstrous Physique II); and even most of the Bloodline Feats are good. Stick whatever else you want on it to make it awesome.


I appreciate all the contributions in this or my earlier thread, but I was looking for something quite specific and now it's abudantly clear that PF doesn't support that, which is dissapointing because it's less optimal than just using a regular old reach weapon. Oh well, not the first time that happened and I'm certain it won't be the last.


^Well, what were you looking to do? Retrofit Reach/non-Reach switching onto an existing character?


The short of it? I wanted to attack opponents that enter my threat range with my katana.
Yes, it's oddly specific. Yes, I could do almost the same thing in a dozen of different, and more optimal, ways. But that's the image I have of my character in my head and I'll be damned if don't at least try to match it with the mechanics.


I am confused then, because many of the suggested options allow you to do exactly what you are looking for.

For instance if you have long arm, you threaten at 5 and 10 feet. When they try to get close to you they move out of a threatened square, and you can make an attack, exactly the same as you could with a reach weapon.

Am I missing something here?


Sah wrote:

I am confused then, because many of the suggested options allow you to do exactly what you are looking for.

For instance if you have long arm, you threaten at 5 and 10 feet. When they try to get close to you they move out of a threatened square, and you can make an attack, exactly the same as you could with a reach weapon.

Am I missing something here?

This thread seems to be a spin-off of this one. It appears that the OP wants a way to attack everyone who enters their threatened squares rather than attacking those who leave the threatened squares.


ok. In that case the answer is no. It is very difficult to attack someone who enters a threatened square because it would be a powerful ability to have.
Someone could move up to attack you, to give you a free attack. Then you full attack them, and then 5-foot step away. They move up again. Now you just had 2 free attacks over the course of one round.

It would work even better with a reach weapon. You would get one attack for them entering a threatened square, and another attack for them leaving a threatened square since you provoke "per act" not "per action".


I don't consider paying a feat for an attack to be that powerful since there are already other ways to provoke more, especially when you need other resources to even be able to make multiple AoOs. And the PoW feat I was thinking of using doesn't allow to get two AoOs for entering and leaving either way.


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Anarchy_Kanya wrote:
I don't consider paying a feat for an attack to be that powerful since there are already other ways to provoke more, especially when you need other resources to even be able to make multiple AoOs. And the PoW feat I was thinking of using doesn't allow to get two AoOs for entering and leaving either way.

It's the ability to do what you want that is powerful. That is why lunge which only gives you reach on your turn is a feat. If you wanted permanent reach it would likely cost 2 or 3 feats.

As for my entering and leaving statement this is why it would provoke twice:

The rules already give you an AoO for leaving a threatened square. If someone is is more than 10 feet away, and they need to be adjacent to you in order to hit you they have to enter and leave the first threatened square to get close enough to hit you. So that is two provocations. One for entering, and one for leaving.

With that being said a reach weapon would not allow you to threaten someone who is entering and leaving your square unless you are saying you want the weapon to threaten at 10 and 5 feet. However reach weapons don't threaten adjacent squares. If a weapon threated reach and adjacent squares at the same time every reach build guide on the forums would pick it up. It would be a no-brainer.

Are you wanting a katana that:
1.acts as a reach weapon
2.a weapon that threatens at 5 and at 10 feet
3.a weapon that allows you to attack when someone enters a threatened square?

1. Reflavor another weapon.

2. nothing other than a whip does this, and that requires several feats.

3. nothing does this, and if it did then it would cost several feats.

If it does a combination of any of the above expect to spend at least 3 feats.

Outside of that it won't happen.


UnArcaneElection wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
^Sure it does in all but name (and with the Dwarven Dorn-Dergar, even in name) -- any of the above gets you Reach when you wouldn't have had it before, and you can use a weapon with it. Note that if you are Large, weapons of appropriate size for you automatically have 10' reach if they would not have been Reach weapons if you were Medium.
He wants the non-reach weapon to be a reach weapon without multiclassing, having to use an action to change the reach on the weapon, or use a feat tree. That is pretty much what I figured from his opening post.

Whips don't need an action to change between non-Reach and Reach, but you do need to pile on a few feats to make them good.

If you are an Alchemist, Bloodrager(*), Goliath Druid, or Magus, you don't need to multiclass to use the magic-based options; you need an initial action to use the spell or supernatural ability, but thereafter no extra actions (unless you are in a pitched battle so long that the spell duration runs out).

(*)If you are 11th level, you get Greater Bloodrage, which lets you fire up your 4th level power and cast Long Arm or Enlarge person at the same time, and entering Bloodrage is a Free Action, so this actually saves you on action economy.

That is why I also mentioned "feat tree".

Shadow Lodge

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Anarchy_Kanya wrote:

The short of it? I wanted to attack opponents that enter my threat range with my katana.

Yes, it's oddly specific. Yes, I could do almost the same thing in a dozen of different, and more optimal, ways. But that's the image I have of my character in my head and I'll be damned if don't at least try to match it with the mechanics.

You could have significantly increased the quality of the responses by being this specific up front: Vague questions tend to get a lot of responses that aren't valid to your particular situation, or even worse, responses that seem valid until you discover the narrow exception your restrictions fall into (Including what level you are looking at would be helpful as well, as 1st level characters don't have the same options a 20th level character would).

That being said, what you are looking for is rather powerful: It's essentially a free 'first strike' on any melee opponent, apparently without the drawbacks of an actual reach weapon. The Spiked Chain used to be able to work like this (a 'reach' weapon that could also hit adjacent targets) back in the 3.x D&D and it was considered ridiculously overpowered, which is presumably why it lost the 'reach' property in Pathfinder.


Aberrant Bloodrager with Long Arm (and eventually other stuff) gets real close to what you want -- if you threaten enough squares, then almost any movement by an enemy into one of them will also be out of one of them, unless they just entered the edge of the area and didn't come any closer.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
That being said, what you are looking for is rather powerful: It's essentially a free 'first strike' on any melee opponent, apparently without the drawbacks of an actual reach weapon. The Spiked Chain used to be able to work like this (a 'reach' weapon that could also hit adjacent targets) back in the 3.x D&D and it was considered ridiculously overpowered, which is presumably why it lost the 'reach' property in Pathfinder.

Oh my god those chains were horrible. It was cakewalk or death, depending on whether or not it was the PCs or the enemy that had the Enlarged barbarian spiked-chain trip-monkey build.

There was just no way around how OP those things were.

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