Aventurer's Armory 2 wrote: Dancer's Garb: This combination of loose-fitting sashes, veils, and ornamentation accentuates a dancer’s form and movements. Dancer’s garb provides a +2 circumstance bonus on Perform (dance) checks, similar to that provided by masterwork instruments for other Perform skills, but does not grant this benefit when worn with armor or other concealing clothing. So no Swan Lakein hellknight armor. Makes sense.
Core Rulebook wrote: Celestial Armor: This +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day. As far as I know, celestial armor is the only kind you can wear as long johns. Or, to put the question another way: do you get the +2 to Perform (dance) from the garb if your underwear is magic armor?
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Now I'm imagining a belly dancer in a silver bodysuit.
Sure. Why not?
I'd say no, Dancer's Garb specifically says you don't get the benefit when worn with armor.
But ask your GM, they might allow it.
Rysky wrote: I'd say no, Dancer's Garb specifically says you don't get the benefit when worn with armor.
But ask your GM, they might allow it.
im thinking that line is there because it would cover up the dancing garbs thus nullifying the line of site to them and not getting any benefits for them if they were overtop of armor i could see them working
In you're in PFS, no. I would expect any GM in a home game to allow it.
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Total Shelynite, sounds like standard paladin issue for them.
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As the writer of the item (though, as always, not an official arbiter of Pathfinder rules)... I'd be inclined to allow it. I could easily see it going either way, though.
The bit after "with armor" is, to my mind, of particular note. "Or other concealing clothing" indicates that the set "armor" is relevant for its concealing nature. Since the armor in question is an exception to the general rule of armor being bulky and unhideable, this seems like a relevant interaction. That said, as always, expect table variation.
Some more specific thoughts:
I wouldn't allow the armor to go undetected under standard dancer's garb. Silver or sunsilver dancer's garb, though, would suitably camouflage the armor.
While, as noted previously, there's a strong case for a unique interaction, please accept a GM's ruling with grace - especially in PFS. That word "other" can only do so much work, while a low-context interpretation (no offense intended) may limit the armor's effect to only what is explicitly guaranteed.
Depending on how skimpy your dancer's garb is, and how complete your armor is, it may look a bit gauche. Do make sure to coordinate your outfit properly for maximum style.
The Stag Lord's armor (Pathfinder Adventure Path #37: Stolen Land) is another interesting interaction, given its... uniquely revealing nature. Whether or not this actually suits your dancer's garb is a matter of style and opinion; if you need an expert opinion, consult your nearest silksworn occultist.
Hope this is of use... or at least mild entertainment value. ^_^
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Plate armor would negate the bonus, but a chainmail bikini would double it! <g>
Seriously, celestial armor is going to cover all the dancer's attributes, while the dancing garb is intended to semi-reveal them. Sounds highly incompatible to me.
RAW from the description would disqualify any armor of any sort.
Wheldrake wrote: Seriously, celestial armor is going to cover all the dancer's attributes, while the dancing garb is intended to semi-reveal them. Sounds highly incompatible to me. Really? I'll bite: what if you cast disguise self to look like yourself just not wearing armor? You're not using that spell to mimic the special clothing (which is a total bee's nest), you're just removing the attribute you don't want.
@Isabelle Lee: I am indeed mildly entertained. What is this stag lord armor? Stolen Land has something called a stag's helm, but I don't think that's what you were talking about.
You just need to make sure the dancer's garb is roomy enough for the extra bulk of the armor, or you will look even sillier that you normally would for wearing a tutu over your armor.
You know, I'd be more impressed if you danced in plate than in normal clothes.
Wheldrake wrote: Plate armor would negate the bonus, but a chainmail bikini would double it! <g>
Seriously, celestial armor is going to cover all the dancer's attributes, while the dancing garb is intended to semi-reveal them. Sounds highly incompatible to me.
RAW from the description would disqualify any armor of any sort.
You know, I don't mean to derail this thread from very serious rules questions, but, eh, you should broaden your horizons about what 'dancer's garb' is and isn't. It's not all Victoria's Secret gypsy underpants, you know.
Here's a picture of a dude in the national costume/dancing costume of Georgia (the country, not the state).
a) his whole body, save head and hands, is covered.
b) he's got a dagger. Like, a real one.
c) those ridges on his chest? Those are meant to be fake bullets or shotgun slugs.
d) you can't see from the photo, but he's also wearing dancing slippers that are meant to look like tall leather riding boots.
So, dancer's garb can be pretty darn macho/militant without getting anywhere near naked. FYI.
The Sideromancer wrote: You know, I'd be more impressed if you danced in plate than in normal clothes. It depends on the kind of dance, I'd say...
Really I was thinking more along these lines.
ohako wrote: Wheldrake wrote: Plate armor would negate the bonus, but a chainmail bikini would double it! <g>
Seriously, celestial armor is going to cover all the dancer's attributes, while the dancing garb is intended to semi-reveal them. Sounds highly incompatible to me.
RAW from the description would disqualify any armor of any sort.
You know, I don't mean to derail this thread from very serious rules questions, but, eh, you should broaden your horizons about what 'dancer's garb' is and isn't. It's not all Victoria's Secret gypsy underpants, you know.
Here's a picture of a dude in the national costume/dancing costume of Georgia (the country, not the state).
a) his whole body, save head and hands, is covered.
b) he's got a dagger. Like, a real one.
c) those ridges on his chest? Those are meant to be fake bullets or shotgun slugs.
d) you can't see from the photo, but he's also wearing dancing slippers that are meant to look like tall leather riding boots.
So, dancer's garb can be pretty darn macho/militant without getting anywhere near naked. FYI. That doesn’t really look like “loose-fitting sashes, veils, and ornamentation” to me. Are you sure he’s getting a +2 circumstance bonus to dance?
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Well, we would have to obtain an objective measure of dance quality, and have them dance both with and without the outfit enough times for a 10% difference to be statistically significant. He might not like us at the end of this.
At the very least, celestial armor is concealing clothing. But in all fairness, I'd totally approve a masterwork tool for Perform Dance that gave a bonus to checks "while wearing celestial armor." Something like silvered scarves that link directly into the chainmail. And you'd save 50 gp.
"Knight who says Meh wrote: That doesn’t really look like “loose-fitting sashes, veils, and ornamentation” to me. Are you sure he’s getting a +2 circumstance bonus to dance? Probably, yeah. Not sure why these outfits are missing the bullet ridges, though.
only if you're female. Female armor somehow provides protection despite covering less skin than a yellow polka-dot bikini.
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BigNorseWolf wrote: only if you're female. Female armor somehow provides protection despite covering less skin than a yellow polka-dot bikini. Explained :P
My take on this would be that since Celestial Armour is giving you a -2 armour check penalty it's hindering your movement. As such I probably wouldn't let you get the benefit of a dancer's garb. If you somehow reduced the ACP to 0 (if you had armour training, or made a Celestial Chain-Shirt instead or something) I'd let them work together.
Really though, since the person who wrote the feat weighed in and said "RAW probably not, but I'd let it work" you can just go with that.
Claxon wrote: Really I was thinking more along these lines. You just made my day ... that was amazing.
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