I know this can reach overkill territories, but I am honestly curious. If we go with a scythe using weapon master fighter and cast decapitate on him, he gets a X6 critical multiplier. That’s the highest I can think of. Is there something stronger than sextuple crit damage?
If your character is Mythic, you can take Mythic Improved Critical to bump it up to a x7. I'm not sure if there's anything else that you can do that wouldn't require losing levels of Fighter.
A kensai magus can increase the multiplier by 1 at level 4. I can't find whether that's supposed a swift or immediate action - if it's not an action, you can combine with it the multiplier increase from weapon master fighter 13.
I don't remember the make exactly, but I thought you could reach a similar crit multiplier with a mounted Cavalier charging with a lance and certain feats like Spirited Charge.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n287?Critical-on-a-spirited-charge
There's a thread on it. One of the first posts is saying a x7 as a lvl 20 Cavalier. So throw in the Mythic and that's a x8. Don't know if any of that is really correct or not.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
SheepishEidolon wrote: A kensai magus can increase the multiplier by 1 at level 4. I can't find whether that's supposed a swift or immediate action - if it's not an action, you can combine with it the multiplier increase from weapon master fighter 13. Using Perfect Strike appears to be part of the attack action, so I would consider it a non-action.
UC wrote: Perfect Strike (Ex): At 4th level, when a kensai hits with his chosen weapon, he can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to maximize his weapon damage. Don't roll for damage—the weapon deals maximum damage. This affects only the weapon's base damage dice, not additional damage from sneak attack, magical weapon properties, spellstrike, or critical hits.
If the kensai confirms a critical hit, he can instead spend 2 points from his arcane pool to increase his weapon's critical multiplier by 1. This ability replaces spell recall.
as this is in the General Discussion thread, as high as your GM will allow! YeeeHAW! B^) okay, back to RAW...
I'd agree Kensai spends a total of 2 AP pts to add +1 multiplier after he knows he's confirmed which is super handy.
I'll add
Weapon Master wrote: Deadly Critical (Ex): At 13th level, when a weapon master confirms a critical hit with his chosen weapon, he can increase the weapon’s damage multiplier by +1 as an immediate action. He can use this ability once per day at 13th level, plus one additional time per day for every three levels above 13th.
This ability replaces Weapon Training 3.
Unfortunately, Mythic Improved Critical caps out x6, so it wouldn't be much use to the weapon master/kensai build.
It does, however, open up some interesting options for spellcasters. A spellslinger wizard with Mythic Improved Critical (ray), Weapon Versatility (ray), Spell Perfection, and the decapitate spell could dish out x6 criticals with polar ray or disintegrate. Three thousand damage, here we come.
Avoron wrote: Unfortunately, Mythic Improved Critical caps out x6, so it wouldn't be much use to the weapon master/kensai build.
It does, however, open up some interesting options for spellcasters. A spellslinger wizard with Mythic Improved Critical (ray), Weapon Versatility (ray), Spell Perfection, and the decapitate spell could dish out x6 criticals with polar ray or disintegrate. Three thousand damage, here we come.
Decapitate spell only works with slashing damage, no ray spells, sorry.
Xenocrat wrote: Avoron wrote: Unfortunately, Mythic Improved Critical caps out x6, so it wouldn't be much use to the weapon master/kensai build.
It does, however, open up some interesting options for spellcasters. A spellslinger wizard with Mythic Improved Critical (ray), Weapon Versatility (ray), Spell Perfection, and the decapitate spell could dish out x6 criticals with polar ray or disintegrate. Three thousand damage, here we come.
Decapitate spell only works with slashing damage, no ray spells, sorry. Hence the Weapon Versatility.
Avoron wrote: Xenocrat wrote: Avoron wrote: Unfortunately, Mythic Improved Critical caps out x6, so it wouldn't be much use to the weapon master/kensai build.
It does, however, open up some interesting options for spellcasters. A spellslinger wizard with Mythic Improved Critical (ray), Weapon Versatility (ray), Spell Perfection, and the decapitate spell could dish out x6 criticals with polar ray or disintegrate. Three thousand damage, here we come.
Decapitate spell only works with slashing damage, no ray spells, sorry. Hence the Weapon Versatility. You don’t wield a ray or shift your grip on it.
Xenocrat wrote: Avoron wrote: Xenocrat wrote: Avoron wrote: Unfortunately, Mythic Improved Critical caps out x6, so it wouldn't be much use to the weapon master/kensai build.
It does, however, open up some interesting options for spellcasters. A spellslinger wizard with Mythic Improved Critical (ray), Weapon Versatility (ray), Spell Perfection, and the decapitate spell could dish out x6 criticals with polar ray or disintegrate. Three thousand damage, here we come.
Decapitate spell only works with slashing damage, no ray spells, sorry. Hence the Weapon Versatility. You don’t wield a ray or shift your grip on it. Evidence?
Because rays aren't weapons.
While you can have a ray be a weapon for the purpose of weapon focus, it is clear in the feat that it is for the purpose of that feat alone.
Weapon focus also says choose a weapon, and you can ALSO choose rays. Meanung it is seperate from weapons and can't be gripped or wielded. As it also indicates rays are treated like grapple to qualify, you can't wield a grapple.
So you can't grip a ray.
Evidence.
Cavall wrote: Because rays aren't weapons.
While you can have a ray be a weapon for the purpose of weapon focus, it is clear in the feat that it is for the purpose of that feat alone.
I'm sorry, that's simply false.
FAQ wrote:
Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?
Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)
For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.
The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells. Rays definitely count as weapons for the purpose of effects that work on weapons. I don't know why you're bringing grappling into this, that really has nothing to do with the issue, it just happens to be mentioned in the same feat. Do you have any actual game definition of what sort of weapons can be "wielded" or "gripped" that excludes rays?
I'm bringing up grapple for the exact reasons I mentioned. That the feat calls put weapons with damage types and then says "also" grapple and rays for the feat, but clearly places grapple and rays outside the category.
I've not seen your evidence it has a grip.
Nor does this say it is a weapon just counts as one for effects. Not actually being a weapon that you can grip.
None of your quotes are applicable because none of them say they are weapons. Weapons are gripped. Things that count as weapons for the purpose of buffs doesn't mean they are gripped. Just that they are capable of being buffed.
Cavall wrote: Nor does this say it is a weapon just counts as one for effects. Not actually being a weapon that you can grip. A ray counts as a weapon for effects that work on weapons. Weapon Versatility is an effect that works on weapons. So, by default, Weapon Versatility works on rays. And the feat itself clearly says that "you can shift your grip as a swift action." That's not a prerequisite for using the feat, that's a benefit. Unless you can provide some sort of rule outlining what sort of things can and can't be gripped, the feat works with rays just like it does with any other weapon.
Anyway, apologies for somewhat derailing this thread with a relatively minor rules issue. Cavall, if you'd like to make a Rules Question thread to address this issue, I'd be happy to continue the discussion there.
|
2 people marked this as a favorite.
|
No I'm fantastically good where I stand. Treating something as something else to qualify doesn't make it that actual thing. You can't grip a ray. You cant change it's weapon type because it doesn't have one.
I don't feel a need to continue that in another place, there's already threads for it. But I won't derail any further, we can agree on tnat.
The reason Weapon Versatility can't apply to a Ray attack is not because it's not a weapon, it clearly is according the errata posted here. However, you are not "Wielding" a ray under any circumstances. Weapon Focus applies to Rays, without a doubt, but because Weapon Versatility requires you to be wielding the weapon to activate it, you never can. You also can't use a swift action DURING a standard action, and Rays pretty universally occur instantaneously, so there's no window of time when you can apply the effect while firing a ray.
Recent threads in General Discussion
|
