[Ult Wilderness] Can the Menhir Guardian Monk benefit from Shifter's Edge?

[voideternal]

As title. I don't think it works because the Menhir Guardian's Claws ability says its monk level is treated as a shifter level for the purposes of the Claws ability, as opposed to the Shifter's Edge feat ability, but I'd like to ask for second opinions.

[SorrySleeping]

Dot

[willuwontu]

You are correct, the archetype does not count as a shifter, so while you could take shifter's edge (since you have the claws feature from shifter), you'd get no benefit out of it since your monk level does not count as shifter levels.

[Taenia]

Note that the paizo team has mentioned that Shifter's Edge is getting errata'd.

[graystone]

voideternal wrote:

As title. I don't think it works because the Menhir Guardian's Claws ability says its monk level is treated as a shifter level for the purposes of the Claws ability, as opposed to the Shifter's Edge feat ability, but I'd like to ask for second opinions.

"He gains the shifter’s shifter claws class feature and treats his monk level as his shifter level for the purposes of this ability."

I'd say that Shifter's Edge would look at that "shifter level for the purposes of this ability".

[Chess Pwn]

graystone wrote:

voideternal wrote:

As title. I don't think it works because the Menhir Guardian's Claws ability says its monk level is treated as a shifter level for the purposes of the Claws ability, as opposed to the Shifter's Edge feat ability, but I'd like to ask for second opinions.

"He gains the shifter’s shifter claws class feature and treats his monk level as his shifter level for the purposes of this ability."

right, and not for feats, thus when the feat increases by 1/2 your shifter level it increases it by 0.

[graystone]

Chess Pwn wrote:

graystone wrote:

voideternal wrote:

As title. I don't think it works because the Menhir Guardian's Claws ability says its monk level is treated as a shifter level for the purposes of the Claws ability, as opposed to the Shifter's Edge feat ability, but I'd like to ask for second opinions.

"He gains the shifter’s shifter claws class feature and treats his monk level as his shifter level for the purposes of this ability."

right, and not for feats, thus when the feat increases by 1/2 your shifter level it increases it by 0.

We're talking about damage when using the feature that has an attached shifter level though [modifying how the feature works]. For me it seems like it should work. It seems 'lawyer-like' reading, that we're continually told NOT to do, that an ability with a shifter level attached doesn't count as a shifter level for things that look for shifter levels. Adding damage to the feature IMO is "for the purposes of this ability" The feat isn't looking for a generic shifter level [like 4th level shifter to take] but the shifter level your claws are. For instance, if a shifter archetype came out and changed your shifter's claws to -2 levels of use, the feat your look at claw levels and not actual shifter level. :P

[Chess Pwn]

graystone wrote:

Chess Pwn wrote:

graystone wrote:

voideternal wrote:

As title. I don't think it works because the Menhir Guardian's Claws ability says its monk level is treated as a shifter level for the purposes of the Claws ability, as opposed to the Shifter's Edge feat ability, but I'd like to ask for second opinions.

"He gains the shifter’s shifter claws class feature and treats his monk level as his shifter level for the purposes of this ability."

right, and not for feats, thus when the feat increases by 1/2 your shifter level it increases it by 0.

We're talking about damage when using the feature that has an attached shifter level though [modifying how the feature works]. For me it seems like it should work. It seems 'lawyer-like' reading, that we're continually told NOT to do, that an ability with a shifter level attached doesn't count as a shifter level for things that look for shifter levels. Adding damage to the feature IMO is "for the purposes of this ability" The feat isn't looking for a generic shifter level [like 4th level shifter to take] but the shifter level your claws are. For instance, if a shifter archetype came out and changed your shifter's claws to -2 levels of use, the feat your look at claw levels and not actual shifter level. :P

we're continually told to real lawyer like.

Magical enhancements of bows don't really all the way apply to arrows.
Warpriest that treated their bab equal to level for feats did it just to qualify, not for effects.
Banner of the ancient kings works for only bards.
The rage power helm only works for barbs.
Like this list is larger of them ruling that you exactly follow the rules text rather than letting a more loose reading apply.

We have no rule saying that they count as having shifter levels for feats or for the effects of feats or for feats dealing with the claws.

[Evra]

I'd have to agree with graystone. "For the purposes of this ability" suggests that the monk counts as a shifter when, and only when factoring in shifter's claws.

As an aside though, the menhir guardian would be great fun as a dip for FCB training to give flurry on one of the single attack forms. Flurrying bulls, flurrying wolves, or even though it's got two attacks, a tongue flurrying giant frog