Psychic casters vs Calm Emotions spell


Rules Questions


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I'm looking at the emotion component of Psychic spells, specifically:

"A psychic spellcaster marshals her desire in order to focus and release the spell's energy. It is impossible to cast a spell with an emotion component while the spellcaster is under the influence of a non-harmless effect with the emotion or fear descriptors"

Calm Emotions is non-harmless, but lacks the emotion or fear descriptor - at least on Paizo's content pages.

So - does Calm Emotions prevent Psychic spell casting or not?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

Actually, I thought Calm Emotion was a remedy for psychic casters hit with spells that have the emotion or fear descriptors. You use it to regain control of your emotions as it removes those effects.


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Hmm, the spell reads more like a dampening effect. Revelers stop reveling and the affected cannot take any violent actions "unless attacked first", which breaks the spell. It does list specific effects vs spells and abilities, but the spell could make a bunch of people at a sporting events stop emotional support for their team too. So, it seems to me it would suppress psychic spell casting - or at least violent psychic spell casting - but for some reason a spell about emotions does not have the emotion descriptor...


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It doesn't have the emotion or fear descriptors so it doesn't prevent Psychic casting in general, but it would prevent Psychic casters, or any other casters, from using spells to attack first. I think that the emotion descriptor is usually for spells that actually create emotions.


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Gisher wrote:
It doesn't have the emotion or fear descriptors so it doesn't prevent Psychic casting in general, but it would prevent Psychic casters, or any other casters, from using spells to attack first. I think that the emotion descriptor is usually for spells that actually create emotions.
Calm Emotions wrote:
School enchantment (compulsion) [emotion, mind-affecting];

Emphasis mine.


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Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Gisher wrote:
It doesn't have the emotion or fear descriptors so it doesn't prevent Psychic casting in general, but it would prevent Psychic casters, or any other casters, from using spells to attack first. I think that the emotion descriptor is usually for spells that actually create emotions.
Calm Emotions wrote:
School enchantment (compulsion) [emotion, mind-affecting];
Emphasis mine.

Not according to the PRD.

EDIT: As far as I can tell, it's never actually had the emotion descriptor. The 6th printing matches what's in the PRD, and none of the errata files mention that spell.


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I was going to ask: How on Castrovel does calm emotions not have the emotion descriptor? Thanks, Mr. Abendroth.

(Edit: The emotion descriptor is not listed in the spell descriptions of core spells because it wasn't introduced until Ultimate Magic.)


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shaventalz wrote:
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Gisher wrote:
It doesn't have the emotion or fear descriptors so it doesn't prevent Psychic casting in general, but it would prevent Psychic casters, or any other casters, from using spells to attack first. I think that the emotion descriptor is usually for spells that actually create emotions.
Calm Emotions wrote:
School enchantment (compulsion) [emotion, mind-affecting];
Emphasis mine.
Not according to the PRD.

And not according to my CRB pdf or Archives of Nethys.


blahpers wrote:

I was going to ask: How on Castrovel does calm emotions not have the emotion descriptor? Thanks, Mr. Abendroth.

(Edit: The emotion descriptor is not listed in the spell descriptions of core spells because it wasn't introduced until Ultimate Magic.)

So what source does list the emotion descriptor for this spell?


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Ultimate Magic introduced the emotion descriptor and applied it to calm emotions.

Quote:
Emotion: antipathy, aura of greater courage, bane, blessing of courage and life, calm animals, calm emotions, castigate, castigate (mass), cause fear, crushing despair, doom, euphoric tranquility, eyebite, fear, forced repentance, good hope, hunter's howl, moonstruck, phantasmal killer, phantasmal revenge, rage, rally point, scare, shared wrath, symbol of fear, sympathy, weapon of awe, weird, wrath.


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Gisher wrote:
blahpers wrote:

I was going to ask: How on Castrovel does calm emotions not have the emotion descriptor? Thanks, Mr. Abendroth.

(Edit: The emotion descriptor is not listed in the spell descriptions of core spells because it wasn't introduced until Ultimate Magic.)

So what source does list the emotion descriptor for this spell?

It looks like there's a small list in Ultimate Magic, page 251.

Spells With New Descriptors wrote:


The following spells from the Core Rulebook and Advanced Player’s Guide (marked with a double asterisk) have the new descriptors from Chapter 2...
Emotion: ...calm emotions...


I found it - it's on the d20PFSD -- but that ain't Paizo, where no such distinction exits. I have to say, I agree with the idea of the PFSD, but that isn't official is it?

see: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/calm-emotions/


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The SRD has emotion cited, Archives of Nethys does not. Obviously the PRD does not.
Both SRD and and Archives source it to the Core Rule book.
I haven't found an errata for it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


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KingOfNinjas wrote:

Ultimate Magic introduced the emotion descriptor and gave it to calm emotions.

Quote:
Emotion: antipathy, aura of greater courage, bane, blessing of courage and life, calm animals, calm emotions, castigate, castigate (mass), cause fear, crushing despair, doom, euphoric tranquility, eyebite, fear, forced repentance, good hope, hunter's howl, moonstruck, phantasmal killer, phantasmal revenge, rage, rally point, scare, shared wrath, symbol of fear, sympathy, weapon of awe, weird, wrath.

AHHHHH - so Paizo site is not up to date! Cool. An actual answer! Thanks!


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2bz2p wrote:
KingOfNinjas wrote:

Ultimate Magic introduced the emotion descriptor and gave it to calm emotions.

Quote:
Emotion: antipathy, aura of greater courage, bane, blessing of courage and life, calm animals, calm emotions, castigate, castigate (mass), cause fear, crushing despair, doom, euphoric tranquility, eyebite, fear, forced repentance, good hope, hunter's howl, moonstruck, phantasmal killer, phantasmal revenge, rage, rally point, scare, shared wrath, symbol of fear, sympathy, weapon of awe, weird, wrath.
AHHHHH - so Paizo site is not up to date! Cool. An actual answer! Thanks!

Well, yes and no. It exactly matches the entry in the most recent physical CRB. It's just that there's also an addendum to that spell in a completely different book buried on one page near the back.


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KingOfNinjas wrote:

Ultimate Magic introduced the emotion descriptor and applied it to calm emotions.

Quote:
Emotion: antipathy, aura of greater courage, bane, blessing of courage and life, calm animals, calm emotions, castigate, castigate (mass), cause fear, crushing despair, doom, euphoric tranquility, eyebite, fear, forced repentance, good hope, hunter's howl, moonstruck, phantasmal killer, phantasmal revenge, rage, rally point, scare, shared wrath, symbol of fear, sympathy, weapon of awe, weird, wrath.

Thanks! That is really hidden. UM has been out for a long time, so I would have thought the PRD would include this information by now.


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I suspect their update procedure is to overwrite the old text with the new errata'd text, when that text is changed in the source document. This kind of change would fall through the cracks.


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CRB spells are described in the PRD with CRB rules. The emotion descriptor only exists following Ultimate Magic, so none of the CRB spells are going to have the emotion descriptor. It isn't a matter of being out of date so much as segregating add-on material from the default experience. Not everybody plays with all core-line books.


Dot

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Archives of Nethys has most of the other spells tagged correctly. I'm guessing calm emotions was inadvertently skipped.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Rulebook Subscriber

I meant that if your psychic caster was hit with fear or some other mind effecting spell, someone casting calm emotion on him would allow him to cast spells that required an emotion component. This came up for my sorcerer who took the psychic bloodline, which made him a psychic caster with the wizard/sorcerer spell list substituting verbal components with thought, and somatic with emotion.


Agodeshalf wrote:
I meant that if your psychic caster was hit with fear or some other mind effecting spell, someone casting calm emotion on him would allow him to cast spells that required an emotion component. This came up for my sorcerer who took the psychic bloodline, which made him a psychic caster with the wizard/sorcerer spell list substituting verbal components with thought, and somatic with emotion.

Actually, since Calm Emotion suppresses emotions, it removes the emotional distractions, but, just like it suppresses morale bonuses, it would also suppresses the emotions that would fuel those spells. It wouldn't suppress thought based spells though. Since a simple slap would break the spell it isn't a cheap and effective psychic shut-down.


Daw wrote:
Agodeshalf wrote:
I meant that if your psychic caster was hit with fear or some other mind effecting spell, someone casting calm emotion on him would allow him to cast spells that required an emotion component. This came up for my sorcerer who took the psychic bloodline, which made him a psychic caster with the wizard/sorcerer spell list substituting verbal components with thought, and somatic with emotion.
Actually, since Calm Emotion suppresses emotions, it removes the emotional distractions, but, just like it suppresses morale bonuses, it would also suppresses the emotions that would fuel those spells. It wouldn't suppress thought based spells though. Since a simple slap would break the spell it isn't a cheap and effective psychic shut-down.

I am in agreement here. Calm Emotions is not a cure of emotional effects, it is a suppressant. A barbarian doesn't think his rage is a problem, Calm emotions removes the rage anyway. As per the emotional component rules, if you are subject to Calm Emotions, you should not be able to cast spells with an emotional component.

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