Retraining basic proficiencies as feats?


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Every class starts with proficiencies in some or many weapons, and in most cases, armor, and sometimes shields.

My question is: To what extent can these starting class proficiencies constitute proficiency feats so that they could be traded for other feats under Retraining rules?

I realize there'd have to be certain limits, as anyone proficient "with all martial weapons" being able to treat every single such weapon as a "Martial Weapon Proficiency" feat and retrain as many of those as they cared to would be abusable as all blue hell.

My much more reasonable, personally-relevant example: Can my Occultist, who is proficient with non-tower shields (basically meaning he has the Shield Proficiency feat), retrain that in exchange for another feat?


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RAW, not at all. Class proficiencies aren't feats. Probably RAI, not at all either. Once you do that, you get rid of the idea of "class" and start playing a game where anyone can be anything from the ability buffet.

Having said that, there's some reasonable room to move with your GM's agreement. Maybe your occultist didn't learn shields, but something else instead. It would have to be less than a feat, though, or it would get out of hand very quickly.

Maybe a custom archetype where you trade things out might be the way to think of it?


No.


Weapon and Armor Proficiency that a character gains as part of the chosen class is a Class Feature. A character can only retrain a Class Feature for another Class Feature for which the character qualifies.

For example, a 1st level monk who chose Dodge as the 1st level monk bonus feat could only retrain Dodge into another feat on the list for 1st level monk bonus feats.


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Class-granted proficiencies aren't considered feats in that sense. As an example…

FAQ wrote:

Fighter: Can I learn a new fighter bonus feat in place of one of my armor proficiency feats?

No. Despite wording in the Armor Proficiency feats, fighters (and other classes) have a class ability that grants proficiency in those armors--it doesn't actually grant those specific feats. Therefore, the fighter's ability to learn a new feat in place of another feat does not apply to these proficiencies.

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