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Why would one do this?
The logic behind it is getting some broken scrap of a gun together which i estimated would cost around 22 gold or so, Using either the amateur gunslinger feat or the mending spell and patch it up to the point where it would actually be usable from the get go. It would be rather makeshift but still usable.
Why would this not be allowed?
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Usually, the sheer cost of a firearm, given that your estimate is rather off the mark...if the broken condition is so easy to cure, it's not going to turn a 1000 gp weapon into a 22gp item. There's a reason why getting a broken firearm at lvl 1 is a class feature and not an equipment option.
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Usually, the sheer cost of a firearm, given that your estimate is rather off the mark...if the broken condition is so easy to cure, it's not going to turn a 1000 gp weapon into a 22gp item. There's a reason why getting a broken firearm at lvl 1 is a class feature and not an equipment option.
Sorry i should have said battered not broken
A gunslinger's battered firearm isn't broken. It's treated 'as if it had the broken condition'. You can't fix that with a mending spell or otherwise.
Also you need to find a gunslinger who is willing to sell their class feature which might take a while.
Why would one do this?
The logic behind it is getting some broken scrap of a gun together which i estimated would cost around 22 gold or so, Using either the amateur gunslinger feat or the mending spell and patch it up to the point where it would actually be usable from the get go. It would be rather makeshift but still usable.Why would this not be allowed?
1. If the GM pointedly doesn't want it to happen, then sorry, nobody has any of those things, tough luck, we thought it was some kind of plumbing fixture... a "fire-arm"? Izzat some kinda magic mace?
2. If the GM wants every Tom, Dick, and Harry to have guns... the workaround really isn't required.
3. If you take a level in Gunslinger, you get a gun and some relevant class bennies without any mucking about... and if you intend to be slinging guns, is that really such a terrible idea?
Why would this not be allowed?
Pathfinder is not an economics game.
Other classes could pull a similiar trick. A player wants 600-gp half-plate armor for his 1st-level fighter, but cannot afford it with the fighter's starting gold of 175 gp. Thus, he tries to claim that the fighter has been working in town for several years at 1 gp per day, saving up for his armor. Right?
Saying that a character found a gunslinger willing to sell his battered starting firearm for 22 gold is just like the fighter saying he found a well-paying safe job long before the adventure started.
First-level characters start with first-level gear. That is how the game is played. Some rules, such as the Rich Parents trait, modify this at the expense of using up other resources, such as a trait.
To obtain a gun at first-level without using a class ability, take the Rich Parents trait and the Gunsmithing feat. Rich Parents changes the starting gold to 900 gp. Spend 15 gp for a Gunsmith's Kit and 500 gp on raw materials. With Gunsmithing, the character can make a pistol with those resources in 1 day. Bride the rest of the party with 100 gp shopping money each so that they don't go off adventuring without your character on that first day. That leaves 85 gp for the rest of the non-gunslinger's gear.
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Why would this not be allowed?Pathfinder is not an economics game.
Other classes could pull a similiar trick. A player wants 600-gp half-plate armor for his 1st-level fighter, but cannot afford it with the fighter's starting gold of 175 gp. Thus, he tries to claim that the fighter has been working in town for several years at 1 gp per day, saving up for his armor. Right?
Saying that a character found a gunslinger willing to sell his battered starting firearm for 22 gold is just like the fighter saying he found a well-paying safe job long before the adventure started.
First-level characters start with first-level gear. That is how the game is played. Some rules, such as the Rich Parents trait, modify this at the expense of using up other resources, such as a trait.
To obtain a gun at first-level without using a class ability, take the Rich Parents trait and the Gunsmithing feat. Rich Parents changes the starting gold to 900 gp. Spend 15 gp for a Gunsmith's Kit and 500 gp on raw materials. With Gunsmithing, the character can make a pistol with those resources in 1 day. Bride the rest of the party with 100 gp shopping money each so that they don't go off adventuring without your character on that first day. That leaves 85 gp for the rest of the non-gunslinger's gear.
Ok then will something like this work?
"My "Caretaker" was rich....I never said he gave the money to me willingly" Would this be a valid reason to take it?
Ok then will something like this work?
"My "Caretaker" was rich....I never said he gave the money to me willingly" Would this be a valid reason to take it?
If you don't arrange this story in advance with your GM and instead use it to gain an advantage outside the rules, then I predict your GM will react to the story by having the constable catch your character and throw him in prison before the adventure begins. Roll up a new character.
You could take the Rich Parents trait and use the robbery story as an exciting backstory. That would be okay with most GMs.
Why all the work for a firearm for a class that does not start with one? Early firearms are inferior to bows, and few classes start with Weapon Proficiency in firearms, so they cost another feat. I created my own archetype for a gunslinging bloodrager, and that archetype did not start with a firearm. She obtained her pistol at 2nd level by a standard method, finding it on a dead body when that value of treasure would be appropriate.
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Also, as I noted above, a battered firearm is not broken. It is treated as broken when someone not the original owner uses it. 'treated as if it had the broken condition' can't be fixed by mending, craft, etc.
The HUGE problem with the whole battered or broken firearm, other than the possibility that the GM may not want fire-arms at all or outside of niche slots, is that that firearms with problems are rather hard to diagnose. A magical mending might just return it to the flawed state it was in before it blew up when fired. There is actually some reasonableness that PFS has the requirement to have the gunsmith requirement to purchase a usable firearm. I w old require a gunsmith roll to have a clue whether there is something useful, and the odds being solidly against finding something useful.
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It helps if you pretend that gunslingers are all gnomes.
They can fix anything with a bit of string and a tuft of bellybutton lint.
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I think we finished responding to Malik Gyan Daumantas' original post, but this thread highlights how weird the battered condition is.
1) Battered is found only on the 1st-level starting firearm of a gunslinger or gunslinger-like archetype.
2) Battered firearms function as normal in the hands of their original, but act broken in other hands.
3) Item 2 implies battered is better than broken, but a battered pistol sells for 22 gp and a broken pistol sells for 250 gp.
4) If a battered firearm is sold, it becomes scrap and totally unusable as a firearm.
5) The Gunsmithing feat explains that for 300 gp, the gunslinger can upgrade his battered firearm to masterwork firearm. The wording says "repair and restore", so this removes the battered condition.
6) Therefore, instead of selling his original battered pistol for 22 gp, a gunslinger should borrow 300 gp to upgrade it to masterwork and sell it for 650 gp, net profit 350 gp. The numbers are even better for a musket or blunderbuss.
7) Many people assume that since battered is like broken, then battered can be fixed by the same methods that fix broken, such as a Mending spell. The rules do not say this, but since "battered" is defined by a class ability published after most rulebooks, the core and advanced rules won't mention battered directly.
actually a broken pistol sells for 750 gp, 325 if sold from a non merchant to a professional merchant, a broken weapon is worth 3/4 normal price
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The 'Battered' Firearm for a 1st level Gunslinger is very simple. Without this class feature a Gunslinger cannot have his firearm until about 4th level.
The rest of the rules are to prevent any abuse by selling of the gun at half it's normal price and getting more money than a 1st level character should have.
Any attempt to make use of this as something other than a way for low level gunslingers to function is just silly cheese. If you really want a firearm at 1st level because your character concept needs it there are 3 choices
1) take a level of Gunslinger
2) Hope common firearm rules are in effect
3) Tell your GM and ask him to make an exception for you.
I am the GM in an Iron Gods campaign, and the gunslinging bloodrager I mentioned above is an NPC in that campaign. In the second module, Lords of Rust, the party faces several gangs. In the most loathsome gang, the Smilers, the low-level members are rogue 1/gunslinger 1 characters. The party killed sixteen Smiler gunslingers and looted their gear: soothe potion (price 200 gp), mwk leather armor (160 gp), mwk buckler (155 gp), dagger (2 gp), and gunslinger’s pistol (???) with 10 bullets (10 gp). That is 527 gp of gear per Smiler, not counting their firearms. The typical wealth of a 2nd-level basic NPC is supposed to be 390 gp, so these Smilers were overequipped.
The party members reached 5th level by wiping out the Smiler gang. 4th-level wealth is 6,000 gp per PC and 5th-level wealth is 10,500 gp per PC. The non-firearm loot from the Smiler minions and leaders covered the difference. Suppose each battered pistol could be sold for 375 gp as if they were merely broken. The Smiler's guns would have yielded 1,500 gp per PC, a 14% increase in their wealth.
But wait, one of the party members is a gunslinger. She could repair broken firearms. Another PC could cast Make Whole, too. That would be 2,000 gp more per player instead.
The resale value of battered firearms is not just about the gunslinger voluntarily selling his firearm. They show up in loot, too.
As for the final fate of the Smiler's firearms, well, the party's fighter managed to misplace the NPC bloodrager. The rest of the party was quite upset and rescued the bloodrager. But the bloodrager had lost her pistol during her captivity. She took the battered firearms, used them as raw material (i.e., scrap), boosted her maxed-out Craft(mechanical) skill with magic and masterwork tools, and made one new pistol out of them.
OK, if you are looking for a plausible explanation for why the party doesn't get full price. Battered, in game, can very well mean more than just worn or damaged. It can be flawed, but in a way that a skilled gunsmith can work around, but not correct without significant expense. Thus the poor resale value, "No really, it just looks bad, but as long as you twist the stock just so, and make sure the hammer....." Remember the pawned six-gun in Silverado?
Early firearms are inferior to bows, and few classes start with Weapon Proficiency in firearms, so they cost another feat.
They are inferior in range, and you roll against the target's touch AC, not their full AC as guns ignore armor. Perhaps the player just rolls really poorly and ignoring armor seems like a great way to make up for it... until the gun misfires.
To the OP, if you want your non gunslinger character to have a gun, why not ask your GM if you could have one for backstory reasons?