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How do they interact? Maybe GMs have been ruling it wrong but normally if I have a speed of 30 ft, I thought you could move 10 ft. and climb 5 ft. as part of the same move action (since you climb at 1/4 speed). Or if you only have 10 ft. left to climb and you do an accelerated climb (to move at half speed) you would still have 10 ft. of movement after the climb. Is this correct?
How does this work with climb speed? Take the monkey goblin for instance. They have a speed of 20 ft. but a climb speed of 30 ft. If a monkey goblin moves 10 ft. then starts to climb, how far can it go during the same move action?
How do they interact? Maybe GMs have been ruling it wrong but normally if I have a speed of 30 ft, I thought you could move 10 ft. and climb 5 ft. as part of the same move action (since you climb at 1/4 speed). Or if you only have 10 ft. left to climb and you do an accelerated climb (to move at half speed) you would still have 10 ft. of movement after the climb. Is this correct?
Yes.
How does this work with climb speed? Take the monkey goblin for instance. They have a speed of 20 ft. but a climb speed of 30 ft. If a monkey goblin moves 10 ft. then starts to climb, how far can it go during the same move action?
I would opt for 15'
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.
With a climb speed greater than 5', you can do a 5' step via climbing.
/cevah
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.With a climb speed greater than 5', you can do a 5' step via climbing.
/cevah
As you still need to do a climb check even with a climb speed I don't think you can take a 5' step.
With a climb speed greater than 5', you can do a 5' step via climbing.As you still need to do a climb check even with a climb speed I don't think you can take a 5' step.
A climb speed gives you a +8 racial bonus, and the ability to Take-10 even if rushed or threatened.
Note that a climb check lets you move 1/4 or 1/2 your speed. You don't need a check if you have a climb speed. That is the whole point of having a climb speed. Same as having a swim speed lets you swim without a check.
/cevah
With a climb speed greater than 5', you can do a 5' step via climbing.As you still need to do a climb check even with a climb speed I don't think you can take a 5' step.A climb speed gives you a +8 racial bonus, and the ability to Take-10 even if rushed or threatened.
Note that a climb check lets you move 1/4 or 1/2 your speed. You don't need a check if you have a climb speed. That is the whole point of having a climb speed. Same as having a swim speed lets you swim without a check.
/cevah
No, climb and swim differ in that regard.
A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but it can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. If a creature with a climb speed chooses an accelerated climb (see above), it moves at double its climb speed (or at its land speed, whichever is slower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Such a creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing.
OK. But with a skill default use at 18, that climb check is automatic for much. Even requiring a check, it does not prevent you taking a 5' step.
Now, someone explain to me why you need a check to go slower than your climb speed.
/cevah
Yeah, I agree it needs a check (although actual roll superfluous for auto-pass DCs Taking 10), but have not believed that to preclude 5' step. "Having Movement Speed for X Mode" is the given pre-req for being able to 5' step (precluding Jumping 5'), but no limitation re: skill checks is given AFAIK (that Jump requires check isn't technical reason why it doesn't work).
Yeah, I agree it needs a check (although actual roll superfluous for auto-pass DCs Taking 10), but have not believed that to preclude 5' step. "Having Movement Speed for X Mode" is the given pre-req for being able to 5' step (precluding Jumping 5'), but no limitation re: skill checks is given AFAIK (that Jump requires check isn't technical reason why it doesn't work).
Agreed.
How does this work with climb speed? Take the monkey goblin for instance. They have a speed of 20 ft. but a climb speed of 30 ft.
Check
With a successful Climb check, you can advance up, down, or across a slope, wall, or other steep incline (or even across a ceiling, provided it has handholds) at one-quarter your normal speed. A slope is considered to be any incline at an angle measuring less than 60 degrees; a wall is any incline at an angle measuring 60 degrees or more. A Climb check that fails by 4 or less means that you make no progress, and one that fails by 5 or more means that you fall from whatever height you have already attained. The DC of the check depends on the conditions of the climb. Compare the task with those on the following table to determine an appropriate DC.
:
Accelerated Climbing
You try to climb more quickly than normal. By accepting a –5 penalty, you can move half your speed (instead of one-quarter your speed).
:
Modifiers
Climb Speed A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but it can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. If a creature with a climb speed chooses an accelerated climb (see above), it moves at double its climb speed (or at its land speed, whichever is slower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Such a creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing
Lets say that monkey goblin climbs something. His skill auto succeeds. His climb speed is 30, so it climbs up 7.5 feet (1/4 speed). It probably auto succeeds at an accelerated climb, so would likely climb 15 feet. But, no, having a climb speed changes that to double climb speed (=60), but caps it by the land speed (=20).
So by climbing as fast as it can, it gets 20 feet up even though it has a climb speed of 30.
This does not work.
Clearly, having a climb speed changes how this all works. How do you reconcile the monkey goblin to the climb skill?
This is why I say it does not normally need to make a check. I have no real issue adding a check to see if something is climbable, but I really do not agree with what RAW indicates the result is.
/cevah
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Lets say that monkey goblin climbs something. His skill auto succeeds. His climb speed is 30, so it climbs up 7.5 feet (1/4 speed).
I'm pretty sure a climb speed means you climb at 30ft. The normal 1/4 movement rules dont apply.
Thank you guys for your responses. So does raw support performing a climb check out oth any movement and or is it only restricted to when you take a move action. Do you know if there is anything in the rules that says you can only perform a climb check on you turn?
For instance, if you have a climb speed and the step-up feat, can you use it while climbing? If you have the limb climber for vexing dodger rogue, use underhanded assault from a mouser swashbuckler, and a climb speed can you attempt to limb climb during the 5ft movement from underhanded assault?
Climbing is part of movement. Therefore you can climb any time you can move. If you can 5' step via climbing, then you can do so as part of the step-up feat.
As to checks being performed at other times, yes:
Anytime you take damage while climbing, make a Climb check against the DC of the slope or wall.
It’s practically impossible to catch yourself on a wall while falling. Make a Climb check (DC = wall’s DC + 20) to do so. It’s much easier to catch yourself on a slope (DC = slope’s DC + 10).
If someone climbing above you or adjacent to you falls, you can attempt to catch the falling character if he or she is within your reach. Doing so requires a successful melee touch attack against the falling character (though he or she can voluntarily forgo any Dexterity bonus to AC if desired). If you hit, you must immediately attempt a Climb check (DC = wall’s DC + 10).
/cevah
How does this work with climb speed? Take the monkey goblin for instance. They have a speed of 20 ft. but a climb speed of 30 ft. If a monkey goblin moves 10 ft. then starts to climb, how far can it go during the same move action?
Myself, I'd go with climbing 20'. I see the numbers as how much total movement you can make with that movement in an action, to a max total of the highest number. This avoids having to figure out which percentage of each type of movement was used.
So monkey goblin just subtracts whatever movement it used before it starts climbing from its climb speed movement to figure out how far up they go.
Lets say that monkey goblin climbs something. His skill auto succeeds. His climb speed is 30, so it climbs up 7.5 feet (1/4 speed). It probably auto succeeds at an accelerated climb, so would likely climb 15 feet. But, no, having a climb speed changes that to double climb speed (=60), but caps it by the land speed (=20).
So by climbing as fast as it can, it gets 20 feet up even though it has a climb speed of 30.
This does not work.
Clearly, having a climb speed changes how this all works. How do you reconcile the monkey goblin to the climb skill?
This is why I say it does not normally need to make a check. I have no real issue adding a check to see if something is climbable, but I really do not agree with what RAW indicates the result is.
This is only an issue because Paizo improperly copied the rules of D&D (specifically, not copying something they should have). From the section of D&D detailing the different movement modes:
Climb
A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0, but it always can choose to take 10 even if rushed or threatened while climbing. The creature climbs at the given speed while climbing. If it chooses an accelerated climb it moves at double the given climb speed (or its base land speed, whichever is lower) and makes a single Climb check at a -5 penalty. Creatures cannot run while climbing. A creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against a climbing creature.
The actual Climb skill says the same thing it does in Pathfinder, but the actual description of the movement mode is above. The bolded part means, with a Climb speed of 30, a successful check moves you 30 feet, not 1/4 your speed.
... And it still has that cap on accelerated climbing.
For the revised text:
Monkey goblin climbs at 30', and can make a check a -5 to climb 20' instead.
Still a problem.
/cevah
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For the revised text:
Monkey goblin climbs at 30', and can make a check a -5 to climb 20' instead.
So you're just saying that per RAW a creature with climb speed can't do an accelerated climb because there is no benefit to doing so?
I know it's not written this way but to me the design philosophy is your speed while climbing is normally 1/2 your land movement speed but to move at that you suffer a -5 penalty. You can choose to move 1/4 speed and suffer no penalty. Similar to how to stealth you can move your normal speed with a penalty but half speed at no penalty.
So an "accelerated climb" is actually a creature climbing normally it's just dangerous to do so.
Also, for my goblin speed question I'm inclined to believe if he has a speed of 20 feet and a climb of 30, if he moves 10 ft. he can then climb 15 ft. But I don't know if there is any RAW to back that up.
If you have to make a check in order to move whether or not it's an automatic success, how is that not difficult ground/hampered movement? Is there any other movement you need a skill check to do that doesn't count as difficult ground? I mean you'd have to take a climb check to move your 5' step.
You need an acrobatics check to jump over a pit when charging.
Hard to call a lack of ground as difficult ground.
You make the check, and the charge happens.
Difficult ground is when movement costs extra. If you have a climb speed, climbing does not cost extra for you.
/cevah
I stand corrected
For the revised text:
Monkey goblin climbs at 30', and can make a check a -5 to climb 20' instead.So you're just saying that per RAW a creature with climb speed can't do an accelerated climb because there is no benefit to doing so?
I know it's not written this way but to me the design philosophy is your speed while climbing is normally 1/2 your land movement speed but to move at that you suffer a -5 penalty. You can choose to move 1/4 speed and suffer no penalty. Similar to how to stealth you can move your normal speed with a penalty but half speed at no penalty.
So an "accelerated climb" is actually a creature climbing normally it's just dangerous to do so.
Also, for my goblin speed question I'm inclined to believe if he has a speed of 20 feet and a climb of 30, if he moves 10 ft. he can then climb 15 ft. But I don't know if there is any RAW to back that up.
As per RAW, there are no rules regarding multiple types of movement used in a single turn, especially when they usually are different from each other. They simply forgot to mention it. It is left up to the GM to decide on how to proceed in that situation, either using percent of movement, or subtracting the movement already made from the new movement type being used. The only rule that even remotely mentions this type of scenario is when determining movement speed after making a jump via acrobatics. Otherwise, the rules assume you are standing still before attempting to climb an object.
As for the whole climb speed greater than land speed dilemma, Monkey Goblins were added in after the initial core rulebook release and the developers have not made any changes in regards to these conflicting rules. As for how the bestiary entries are ruled, the DM normally uses those movement speeds as how it is ruled with swim speed, i.e., no checks, acts like land movement but for climbing and swimming. This will end up being a question for the creative director to resolve once and for all to clear up the conflicting rule systems.
Two questions: any particular reason you keep raising dead threads to give rule interprations?
Second: do you realize that your profile name is considered to be derogatory by most of those it has been used to refer to?
Inb4 they find the succubus in a grapple thread.