Rule you never see used though it is RAW


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Tarondor wrote:

Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can’t effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.

- p. 174 of the Core Rulebook

I usually see people who want to use magic swords to hack through stone walls.

And that's why my dwarven ranger's adamantine weapon is a heavy pick.


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Fromper wrote:
SorrySleeping wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
A cast time of 1 Round (e.g. Summon Monster, Enlarge Person) is not a full round action, it takes until the start of your next turn.
Also the fact that Enlarge Person is 1 round casting. My group knew about 1 round vs 1 full round action, but didn't realize Enlarge Person was 1 round for the longest time.

Everyone remembers the summoning spells, but there are quite a few other common spells that people don't realize have a 1 round casting time: Sleep, Enlarge Person, Silence, Deep Slumber, Call Lightning, Dominate Person, Infernal Healing, etc.

Actually, I've had funny results because Call Lightning is 1 round cast time. It led to the first pit trap where the party felt they deserved it.


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Pathfinder Companion, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
bodhranist wrote:
Has anyone ever actually used the settlement modifiers (Corruption, Crime, Economy, Law, Lore, Society) as modifiers for the various skills? (Okay, I'm in Underbridge in Magnimar, so suddenly all thieves are +6 to pickpocket me, although I'm +6 better at detecting lies and +4 better at hiding in an alley and +1 better at making money, but if I walk 5 minutes to Dockway I've suddenly got +7 to making money, and +6 to gathering information, but -2 to intimidating someone into acting friendly....)

Yes. Those rules important in Hell's Rebels and Curse of the Crimson Throne, likely any city-based campaign, both of which I intend to run (I started HR, but it is cursed for my group and stalled after 1 session).


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You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.


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Athaleon wrote:
You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.

I don't think receiving the spell counts, I think it needs to be casting the spell to change alignment.


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Chess Pwn wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.
I don't think receiving the spell counts, I think it needs to be casting the spell to change alignment.

But you CAN use aligned spells to protect yourself from alignment changes. You just have to figure out how many spells cover your aligned act. it's like the old time indulgences, where you can pre-pay for your sins... ;)


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On the subject: Weather. Most GMs I've played under have never, ever adjusted the weather from cleary and sunny unless the published adventure text demanded it. My gunslinger has been slinging guns in one campaign for 4-5 years now and never had to worry about poor visibility due to normal rain, snow, or fog. Which is disappointing--I have contingencies for such situations but have never had the excuse to use them.


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taks wrote:
Yes. Those rules important in Hell's Rebels and Curse of the Crimson Throne, likely any city-based campaign, both of which I intend to run (I started HR, but it is cursed for my group and stalled after 1 session).

I feel like even then the settlement modifier rules are just a way of codifying circumstantial bonuses that the GM could be giving anyway when appropriate without reference to those rules. Things like "This office is corrupt and this official is accustomed to taking bribes, so he is easier to bribe" and the like. The settlement modifiers just exist if you don't want to think those things through in the first place, but if you're hanging out in one place the whole time you might want to put in the extra effort.

I mean, things like "corruption of government officials" probably wouldn't be uniform across different offices anyway. The law enforcement officials might be easy to cajole into turning a blind eye with a few coins, but the tax collectors might not be.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There are too many for me to enumerate.

-Skeld


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.


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Tinalles wrote:

Lesser Restoration has a casting time of 3 rounds. Which almost nobody knows because it's so weird.

I've got a little database of 2,758 Pathfinder spells, and only seven of them have a casting time of "3 rounds":

Find the Path
Lesser Restore Eidolon
Lesser Restoration
Restoration
Rune Of Jandelay
Snare
Surface Excursion

So it's quite common for people to assume that it's a standard action.

In my experience, spells like this are never cast in time-critical situations like combat, so it really doesn't matter.


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blahpers wrote:
On the subject: Weather. Most GMs I've played under have never, ever adjusted the weather from cleary and sunny unless the published adventure text demanded it. My gunslinger has been slinging guns in one campaign for 4-5 years now and never had to worry about poor visibility due to normal rain, snow, or fog. Which is disappointing--I have contingencies for such situations but have never had the excuse to use them.

I used to roll for weather when I was running Kingmaker Part I--every day, I'd roll an encounter chance, a qualitative roll for how good the weather was, and another qualitative roll for how good a campsite the party was going to find when they settled back down. Bad camp areas led to Fort saves to avoid being fatigued the next day, and bad weather would slow down the party's exploration/travel speed.


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Athaleon wrote:
You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.

Alignment shifts in general. Never seen an alignment change happen once that wasn't a result of some screwball curse or stupid magic item.


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Zhayne wrote:
Alignment shifts in general. Never seen an alignment change happen once that wasn't a result of some screwball curse or stupid magic item.

The other example is when a character has an alignment shift planned as part of their character arc and tells the GM about it. I've seen, like, an Aasimar Rogue go from CN to LG over the course of a campaign.

But it's always a journey of self-discovery and a roleplaying thing without reference to mechanics. The character who wanted to do this doesn't just UMD a wand of celestial healing until they're good, that sort of makes a mockery of the story they want to tell.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I once had an alchemist change from NG to CG because she was willing to try to CDG a bad guy who had tortured her familiar before he became her familiar. The bad guy was also perhaps trying to recapture the familiar, and she was sure he would never stop until he was dead. It was caused by a particular act, but it was my choice, not GM fiat.


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graystone wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.
I don't think receiving the spell counts, I think it needs to be casting the spell to change alignment.
But you CAN use aligned spells to protect yourself from alignment changes. You just have to figure out how many spells cover your aligned act. it's like the old time indulgences, where you can pre-pay for your sins... ;)

I may have remembered that one wrong. It's still a funny/silly/stupid rule. Reminds me of Fable, where you could change your alignment back and forth willy-nilly by eating enough Tofu or Crunchy Chicks, depending on which door you needed to get through at that moment.

Imagine this scene in confessional:

"Forgive me Father, for I have sinned—"

"Say three Hail Marys Cast three Protections from Evil. Next!"


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Zhayne wrote:
Tinalles wrote:

I've got a little database of 2,758 Pathfinder spells, and only seven of them have a casting time of "3 rounds":

Find the Path
Lesser Restore Eidolon
Lesser Restoration
Restoration
Rune Of Jandelay
Snare
Surface Excursion

In my experience, spells like this are never cast in time-critical situations like combat, so it really doesn't matter.

Lesser Restoration would be a lot more useful as a standard action. If you're dying of Con-damage poison, three rounds is likely to be too slow to save you.

Same with Restoration. If you're being attacked by undead and you're one negative level away from death, wouldn't curing all your temporary negative levels instantly be useful?

Maybe the reason you never see them cast in combat is that they take too long to cast...

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I've gotten a Greater Restoration off in combat for lack of anything better to do with my actions.

Zhayne wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.
Alignment shifts in general. Never seen an alignment change happen once that wasn't a result of some screwball curse or stupid magic item.

I shifted one characters alignment to evil, but that was after they specifically murdered someone to join the assassin's guild.


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Quote:
I shifted one characters alignment to evil, but that was after they specifically murdered someone to join the assassin's guild.

Oo! Was this in PFS? Did the player get the shocked-face look when you confiscated their character?


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Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.

if built for it carrying 300 greatswords for some people would still be a light load

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Slim Jim wrote:
Quote:
I shifted one characters alignment to evil, but that was after they specifically murdered someone to join the assassin's guild.
Oo! Was this in PFS? Did the player get the shocked-face look when you confiscated their character?

No, it was a home game. I asked for their character sheet, made the change, and handed it back. I'm not sure they even noticed.

Grand Lodge

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Underwater Combat rules... nuff said.


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Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.

And here I feel like the game got better after starting to track this. This is tracked with a certain amount of diligence now.

Never to create the problem of how to get all the loot home, but as a limitation of how much gear any given character is carrying on them.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
You can change someone's alignment by strapping them to a chair and repeatedly casting Protection from ____________ on them.
Alignment shifts in general. Never seen an alignment change happen once that wasn't a result of some screwball curse or stupid magic item.

I have. In a campaign I was running. The group got a hold of 30+ soul jars and decided to sell them all to a very shady buyer. The moment that money changed hands, they both dropped from CN to CE. They consciously and willingly sold human souls for the sole purpose of profit rather than releasing the souls from the jars. I felt that deserved a shift into the evil side of things. They figured it might happen, and were fine with it.


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I must say I'm not a fan of the "hand me your character sheet and let me edit it" approach.

My personal way of handling actions that I suspect are out of line for the alignment a character wrote on their sheet is simply to ask the player to justify "how does your character rationalize doing [whatever] as a [whichever alignment] act?" then suggesting that they alter their alignment to match their actions if their rationalizations are wanting.


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Selvaxri wrote:
Underwater Combat rules... nuff said.

This is more do to the general lack of underwater adventures. I've never adventured underwater where the underwater rules weren't used.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

re alignment I haven't seen it come up all that often (though in my current campaign I suspect it is likely to come up - the party as a whole is specifically neutral mostly in outlook though they differ a bit in approach to neutrality) but in a past campaign I had a paladin who seemed clearly to be on a path to falling and not unlikely becoming an antipaladin - unfortunately that player moved for a job so couldn't continue with the campaign - but until he had it was very fun seeing how his character was clearly on a path to falling (and as a player he seemed fine with that as the likely outcome). This was Reign of Winter so already a paladin ending up serving and trying to rescue a notoriously evil power was set up for conflict already (sure it was all in the service of a greater good...) in any case I think that alignment while it has a lot of mechanical impacts should primarily refelct roleplaying - and changes to it should likewise (I would never use a rule that casting a spell or having it cast up on you even repeatedly was by itself grounds for an alignment change - with the exception of the specific spell atonement )


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graystone wrote:
Selvaxri wrote:
Underwater Combat rules... nuff said.
This is more do to the general lack of underwater adventures. I've never adventured underwater where the underwater rules weren't used.

The current AP is heavily setup for underwater encounters and adventures - just glanced over it so far but it sure seems like if ever there was an adventure where underwater rules (and player options) might come into play it seems like the AP for that.


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Rysky wrote:
Quandary wrote:
Getting Lost rules.
I have used the “realise you are lost” rules a couple of times before :3

I love them, I mean subtle limited-Confusion effect, forcing the players into the game-world rather than safe full-control paradigm. But I find it's almost never actually applied to the hilt, or even close. I mean, at low levels it's easy enough to happen within urban streets without sufficient lighting at night, never mind in forests. The dynamics resulting from who is/isn't designated "leader" re: travel is interesting as well.


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we never use any eratas/changes that nerf martials

Silver Crusade

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blahpers wrote:
On the subject: Weather. Most GMs I've played under have never, ever adjusted the weather from cleary and sunny unless the published adventure text demanded it. My gunslinger has been slinging guns in one campaign for 4-5 years now and never had to worry about poor visibility due to normal rain, snow, or fog. Which is disappointing--I have contingencies for such situations but have never had the excuse to use them.

I used to play in PFS a group with a druid who used Call Lightning all the time. We decided there was a 20% chance of the weather being cloudy and gray enough to grant him the better damage, in any adventure that didn't mention it. So we'd roll a d10 every time he cast the spell.


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Lady-J wrote:
Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.
if built for it carrying 300 greatswords for some people would still be a light load

Greatsword is 8lbs. 300 Greatswords is 2400lbs. A 30 Str only gives you up to 1600lbs as a heavy load, 532 is the maximum light load. Even with Ant Haul, that is 1596lbs. Capable of carrying the Greatswords, but not as a light load.


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Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.

I always keep track of my characters' encumberance. We all used to in the old days.

But I never had a GM roll on the Monthly Disease or Parasitic Infections tables...


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PFS characters never seem to have to worry about sleeping in their armor. I also noticed that in PFS, powers that work 1-3 times/day is always more than enough.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

There are ways around sleeping in armor.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Bag of Holding wrote:
If a bag of holding is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag immediately ruptures and is ruined, and all contents are lost forever.

Hands up how many people have thrown a bunch of swords, daggers, knives into a bag of Holding for later re-sale without consequence?


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SorrySleeping wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.
if built for it carrying 300 greatswords for some people would still be a light load
Greatsword is 8lbs. 300 Greatswords is 2400lbs. A 30 Str only gives you up to 1600lbs as a heavy load, 532 is the maximum light load. Even with Ant Haul, that is 1596lbs. Capable of carrying the Greatswords, but not as a light load.

Now make that 30 on a large/huge quad [wildshape] with a mastercraft backpack and muleback cords. Then add Efficient Packer & Muscle of the Society traits, Burdenless armor, Powerful Shape and Cut Your Losses feats along with a level of Kineticist for Basic Chaokinesis. Then make a DC 15 profession Porter +2 more.

If you focus on stacking carrying ability, it can quickly get where you can move insane weights.


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SorrySleeping wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.
if built for it carrying 300 greatswords for some people would still be a light load
Greatsword is 8lbs. 300 Greatswords is 2400lbs. A 30 Str only gives you up to 1600lbs as a heavy load, 532 is the maximum light load. Even with Ant Haul, that is 1596lbs. Capable of carrying the Greatswords, but not as a light load.

Lady-J plays a game where numbers are a lot different than what people are used to.

Chess Pwn wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:


Lady-J, what is a standard stat spread for you?
18 in your main stat pre racials and a 14-18 in your secondary stat with a 14-16 in your 3rd most used stat 9-14 on all others nothing below a 9(or 10 ideally) pre racials that way your good at what you do and aren't honorably crippled in the areas you aren't specialized in
Lady-J wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
and how is it that you roll Lady-J?

4d6 re roll 1,2 drop lowest if no 18 is rolled highest roll is an 18 this way every one is has a chance to be good at what they want to do and wont cripple themselves in areas they aren't necessarily going to be using in case they do actually need to use more than what they are good at.

full hp every level also higher base stats leaves less discrepancy between mad and sad classes as well as slightly alleviating some of the caster martial discrepancy and full hp makes the game significantly less glass cannon overall as its both the enemies and the party that get max hp

Lady-J wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
How do you equip a level 6 fighter to get +18 to hit?

+6 from bab +6 from str=12 +3 from weapon training and +1 from weapon focus will get a fighter +16 at level 6 add in +2 from the weapon and you have +18 and thats just a flat fighter nothing else added onto it other than a +2 str belt a +2 weapon and gloves of dueling so no nothing special about it if it where i would of added in atleast another +5-8 somewhere

crafting gear reduces cost by 50% so the gloves are 7500 the belt is 2000 the weapon is around 4000 for a total of 13500 and you have money left for some defense items
Lady-J plays a very different high powered game than most people, where templates and monsters as PCs are fully approved. So their advice about stuff is great, up until numbers get involved, then their advice is basically useless as it doesn't translate at all to most games.


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Rycaut wrote:

other rules people forget:

1) anyone can do any combat maneuver with any weapon or unarmed strike. You don't need a "trip" weapon to make a trip attack (it just has some benefits) etc - and though if you don't have the improved feat it may trigger a potential attack of opportunity there are many cases when that won't have any effect (using a reach weapon against an opponent without reach, an opponent who is flat footed, an opponent who has already taken an AoO without Combat Reflexes etc)

This is not true. There are manuevers that use weapons (eg disarm, sunder, trip), and manuevers that don't (with exceptions, grapple, bull rush, overrun).


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SorrySleeping wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Meraki wrote:
Carrying capacity/encumbrance. No group I've played with has bothered tracking it. As long as no one tries to do something ridiculous like the party wizard carrying around a piano or loot an entire armory of 300 greatswords, we don't feel the need to pay attention to it.
if built for it carrying 300 greatswords for some people would still be a light load
Greatsword is 8lbs. 300 Greatswords is 2400lbs. A 30 Str only gives you up to 1600lbs as a heavy load, 532 is the maximum light load. Even with Ant Haul, that is 1596lbs. Capable of carrying the Greatswords, but not as a light load.

permanency enlarge person doubles carrying capacity, mule back cords adds more str value, there's a really goofy fighter archetype that trades a few things away to get a boost to str for the purpose of carrying things, upgrading items like ant haul belt and mule back cords like how you upgrade items like ring of protection or headbands/belts of ability scores would also increase carrying capacity and that's just stuff that every one has access too.

i made a joke character and it has the carrying capacity of over 715 tons for a light load, over 1433 tons for medium and over 2150 tons for a heavy load at level 10(assuming the carrying capacity calculator i found is accurate) all tho its built with everything i have at my disposal so not ever one can recreate it not that any one should its so bad at everything else except carrying things around


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Here's one:

PRD, the Magic chapter in the Core rulebook wrote:
If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Perception skill drops by 4.

I've known about this for years and never seen it come up. Something to keep in mind if you have a permanent Arcane Lock and a permanent Alarm spell on the same door, I guess.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Majuba wrote:
Rycaut wrote:

other rules people forget:

1) anyone can do any combat maneuver with any weapon or unarmed strike. You don't need a "trip" weapon to make a trip attack (it just has some benefits) etc - and though if you don't have the improved feat it may trigger a potential attack of opportunity there are many cases when that won't have any effect (using a reach weapon against an opponent without reach, an opponent who is flat footed, an opponent who has already taken an AoO without Combat Reflexes etc)

This is not true. There are manuevers that use weapons (eg disarm, sunder, trip), and manuevers that don't (with exceptions, grapple, bull rush, overrun).

yes - but people often think you need a disarm or trip weapon to attempt those maneuvers with a weapon - and you do not. that was what I meant. The rules are also a bit fuzzy with some maneuvers (dirty trick specifically which it is implied can in some cases - though exactly which cases is less clear - can be performed with a weapon. Which matters because then weapon enhancements, feats etc all help those maneuvers.

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