Been thru the core and UM and didn't find what I was looking for. So maybe someone has seen it in another book or I just over looked it.
What I would like is the Cold or Ice equivalent of Fireball. For flavor reasons, as the spell caster is a Sorcerer with white dragon bloodline.
I like double checking with others before just making up spells, so what I am thinking is this.
Iceball
School: evocation
Level: Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Casting time: 1 standard action
Components: V,S,M (stuff)
Range: Long (400ft + 40 ft/level)
Area: 20 ft radius
Duration: Instant
Saving throw: Reflex half
Spell resistance: yes
Summary: 1d6 cold damage per level in a 20ft radius
Iceball creates and freezing explosion of ice that detonates with a cracking sound dealing 1d6 per level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage.
Iceball freezes most liquids and can make certain materials brittle.
No, a cold damage spell shouldn't have the same performance as a fire damage spell with the same resource expenditure. At the cost of having the most monsters with resistance to or immunity against it, fire spells have the best range, area or other features of any element. Cold spells have usually lower range and smaller areas (albeit often with debuff features). Compare to cone of cold or frost fall for example.
There are ways to turn a fire spell into the identical cold (or other element) spell so there's no point in the designers coming up with redundant spells.
Not without resources - a bloodline arcana, or a feat like elemental spell. Hence the differences.
I suppose I fail to see the game mechanic difference in setting things on fire instead of freezing them... Or maybe I am thinking too much real world thermal dynamics and not enough fantasy thermal dynamics. Casting fireball anywhere but a damp cave or swamp is pretty much a bad idea as you can set literally almost everything on fire. Like a field of wheat or barley for example.
And the resource cost, I mean to cast fireball you need a piece of sulfur and some bat crap... Which to be brutally honest seems like two random things someone pulled out of their ass and said, hey you need these to cast this spell. Which everyone at the table giggled and laughed at, they made it cannon and that was it.
Now the resource cost for resurrection makes a bit of sense, as you are exchanging something of great value for something of great value. Bringing someone back to life should be an expensive endeavor.
Probably overthinking it...
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And the resource cost, I mean to cast fireball you need a piece of sulfur and some bat crap... Which to be brutally honest seems like two random things someone pulled out of their ass and said, hey you need these to cast this spell. Which everyone at the table giggled and laughed at, they made it cannon and that was it.
A lot of the spell component, at least as far as the core rulebook is concern, are actual jokes. Sulfer and potassium nitrate (which can be gotten from bat guano) are 2 of the 3 ingredients of black powder (the last being charcoal). So the components are a small explosive. The fur and glass rod for a lightning bolt generate static electricity. The hideous laughter spell requires you to throw a pie at someone (like the classical joke), while the feather represents tickling them. Or how solid fog requires powdered peas (from the saying "fog as thick as pea soup").
In general, the components are somehow related to the effect. It just isn't always obvious.
I'm not meaning material components as the resource used (usually). Spell slots of a given level, feats, bloodline arcana, maybe magic items devoted to the purpose like metamagic rods, that sort of thing.
A cone of cold costs a 5th level spell slot and is mostly worse than your iceball. A fireball is obviously a close equivalent but it does fire damage which is a) more commonly resisted and b) can't be augmented by Rime Spell metamagic, which is a decent debuff and c) may be dangerous in some environments as you point out yourself.
BTW the material component of fireball is basically black gunpowder.
A lot of the spell component, at least as far as the core rulebook is concern, are actual jokes. Sulfer and potassium nitrate (which can be gotten from bat guano) are 2 of the 3 ingredients of black powder (the last being charcoal). So the components are a small explosive. The fur and glass rod for a lightning bolt generate static electricity. The hideous laughter spell requires you to throw a pie at someone (like the classical joke), while the feather represents tickling them. Or how solid fog requires powdered peas (from the saying "fog as thick as pea soup").
In general, the components are somehow related to the effect. It just isn't always obvious.
I had forgotten you get potassium nitrate from guano...
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One of the players in my group created Freezing Shards. Same range, area as fireball, but it exploded into ice and cold. Half piercing damage, half cold. So if it did 30 points of damage, and someone had cold protection 10, they would take 15 points of piercing damage and 5 points of cold damage on a failed save, or 7.5 piercing on a successful one.
The spell component (also crucial to the spell's research) was a frostliter seed which is a glowing blue seed from a plant that grows in the cold of shade. He was cultivating some of these seeds he won from a satyr. They were hard to grow and relatively unknown, so he had a unique spell on his hands that was much desired by other wizards. He would only trade for a high level spell he needed if it was also unique.
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From a big-picture, overall game-balance perspective, avr brings up an important point: resistance and immunity to fire are more common than they are for other elements.
That said though, as long as the DM knows what's up...whatever. Shouldn't be too hard to deal with.
The only thing I'd clarify is the "additional effect" of freezing liquids and making some materials brittle. Creating a crust of ice over a lake or making some widows crack is cool. Freezing a waterfall solid or shattering some iron bars is less so. I don't care how cold it is, it's an instantaneous spell. Energy transfer is going to be limited.
I would really like to see a *new* spell, though, rather than a reskin so thinly veiled it's not a veil at all. Maybe a cold aura DoT spell, or something concentration-based a la Flaming Sphere. Even an icy Spiked Growth type deal.
No, a cold damage spell shouldn't have the same performance as a fire damage spell with the same resource expenditure. At the cost of having the most monsters with resistance to or immunity against it, fire spells have the best range, area or other features of any element. Cold spells have usually lower range and smaller areas (albeit often with debuff features). Compare to cone of cold or frost fall for example.
False argument. The GM is entirely in control of what monsters oppose the PCs, so how many monsters have what resistances is irrelevant, because the GM isn't obligated to use them. Plus, the GM can simply slap energy resistance on any monster he feels like via magic item or simply because he feels like it.
When a PC learns an energy-type spell, I allow then to pick whatever energy type they want (as a one-time thing, they can't change it on the fly. If you learn Iceball, then it stays Iceball).
Jeraa ... thanks for reminding me why 99% of material components are stupid and why I give everybody free Eschew Materials.
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And the resource cost, I mean to cast fireball you need a piece of sulfur and some bat crap... Which to be brutally honest seems like two random things someone pulled out of their ass and said, hey you need these to cast this spell. Which everyone at the table giggled and laughed at, they made it cannon and that was it.A lot of the spell component, at least as far as the core rulebook is concern, are actual jokes. Sulfer and potassium nitrate (which can be gotten from bat guano) are 2 of the 3 ingredients of black powder (the last being charcoal). So the components are a small explosive. The fur and glass rod for a lightning bolt generate static electricity. The hideous laughter spell requires you to throw a pie at someone (like the classical joke), while the feather represents tickling them. Or how solid fog requires powdered peas (from the saying "fog as thick as pea soup").
In general, the components are somehow related to the effect. It just isn't always obvious.
Check the material component for detect thoughts...
Penny for your thoughts?
False argument. The GM is entirely in control of what monsters oppose the PCs, so how many monsters have what resistances is irrelevant...When a PC learns an energy-type spell, I allow then to pick whatever energy type they want...thanks for reminding me why 99% of material components are stupid and why I give everybody free Eschew Materials.
It's a sound argument from the perspective of game design, just not on the level of a singular game or group.
Giving the players options like that is always good. Some will try to abuse that flexibility, of course (lookin' at you, acid and sonic damage), but I've found that a knowing smirk and a raised eyebrow gets them to confess to their schemes and agree to a fair compromise.
How are the components stupid? Eschew Materials is a pretty weak feat, but giving it to everyone for free? I dunno. I mean, shouldn't the components be *somehow* relevant to the spell?
I don't know, do you track components? "Sorry, guys, I'm out of bat guano because we didn't stop at a cave on the way, so no fireball."
Eschew materials is just a spell comment pouch as a feat.
It is useful as a critical fumble on a spell. You lose that particular component until you can resupply your pouch, procure the ingredient manually (a lot of stuff is pretty easy to grab), or switch spell slots for any similar spells.
This really kills specialists, but is otherwise handy flavour for WHY a spell failed (its a giant ball of exploding fire, even if you miss it is still a massive explosion).
I don't know, do you track components?...Eschew materials is just a spell comment pouch as a feat.
Of course not. As the description says, "A spellcaster with a spell component pouch is assumed to have all the material components and focuses needed for spellcasting, except for components that have a specific cost, divine focuses, and focuses that wouldn't fit in a pouch." So there's no need to "track" anything.
...but when you get taken prisoner and thrown naked in a cell, or when the guards outside the temple make you leave your weapons and such at the door, or when you fall in a vat of acid and most of your clothing and mundane equipment is destroyed, the humble spell component pouch becomes rather vital to the immediate plot.
It is useful as a critical fumble on a spell. You lose that particular component until you can resupply your pouch, procure the ingredient manually...This...is otherwise handy flavor for WHY a spell failed.
Well...except fireball isn't really something you can "fumble". The only rolling on your part is where you try to target a 5ft. square. And even if you miss that square, the spell goes off *somewhere*.
But I really like the idea. "Does anyone have any sulfur?"
How are the components stupid? Eschew Materials is a pretty weak feat, but giving it to everyone for free? I dunno. I mean, shouldn't the components be *somehow* relevant to the spell?
Well, more accurately, I should have said 'no-cost material components simply don't exist and aren't a mechanic in my games'. Unless the component has a price or is somehow difficult to get, just ignore that 'M' on the Components line.
I hate the visuals of handling butter or eating a spider or bat poop as part of spellcasting. That's just not how I envision magic working. It adds nothing to the game IMNSHO, and to me, outright detracts from it.
Well...except fireball isn't really something you can "fumble". The only rolling on your part is where you try to target a 5ft. square. And even if you miss that square, the spell goes off *somewhere*.
You don't roll that, either. The spell goes off where you want, automatically.
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You don't roll that, either. The spell goes off where you want, automatically.
Yes, under most circumstances. I was referring to those times when you try to zing that little dot of energy to a very specific spot for one reason or another (through a keyhole, etc). But yes, exactly my point.
From a big-picture, overall game-balance perspective, avr brings up an important point: resistance and immunity to fire are more common than they are for other elements.
That said though, as long as the DM knows what's up...whatever. Shouldn't be too hard to deal with.
The only thing I'd clarify is the "additional effect" of freezing liquids and making some materials brittle. Creating a crust of ice over a lake or making some widows crack is cool. Freezing a waterfall solid or shattering some iron bars is less so. I don't care how cold it is, it's an instantaneous spell. Energy transfer is going to be limited.
I would really like to see a *new* spell, though, rather than a reskin so thinly veiled it's not a veil at all. Maybe a cold aura DoT spell, or something concentration-based a la Flaming Sphere. Even an icy Spiked Growth type deal.
I wasn't thinking anything quiet like freezing lakes, water falls or even metal. Glass windows, a thin wood door, frost on the closest target... fluffy theatrical stuff, not break the game stuff. Basically the cold version of the cartoon explosion/burn effect. Like when a certain coyote miss calculates the potential energy of products from Acme.
I tend to think of magic more in Final Fantasy terms and usage than this system. IE, I want a spell the same power level as fireball, with all of the same level requirements and draw backs. At a certain level you can cast thunder, fire or blizzard. To me at least if you are a sorcerer with a Blue dragon blood line, you should cast electric spells. Red would be fire, white cold.... Maybe a bit over simplified, but you get the dragon's breath weapon, so it would make sense that that dragon's energy would come more naturally to you.
And honestly we never keep track of spell components, because to the people I play with it does take away some of the magic of magic. All the other restrictions are there, you do have to be able to speak or wiggle your fingers.
Plus I was always cool with the spells as in the books, but with this character I wanted a bit more flavor, not mook annihilating power, just some story fluff. So until now I haven't really tried to modify or create my own spells before.