Tieing up question

Rules Questions

After I have pinned my opponent, the next round I can choose to maintain and simply tie up my opponent. Here is my confusion, the rules state you must have two hands free or you take a -4 to grapple, so if I chose to maintain would it be a +1 for the roll (instead of the usual +5) and then the tie up would occur?

The rules state you may tie him up. It imposes the conditions under which you may do it. I.e, if your opponent is grappled and if you take a -10 penalty to the grapple check.

You explicitly have the ability. GM prerogative does not extend to imposing additional requirements.

Having rope is sufficient.

A -10 penalty is huge; off the top of my head I can't think of a bigger penalty in the game.

This means the developers have said - we think it takes two rounds minimum, and three successful checks to tie someone up in a grapple. And we think that penalty to apply the rope - getting it, wrapping it, looping it, all the while holding your victim - is a -10 penalty.

Now, if there are other circumstances - you have sand in your eyes; your rope is covered in oil, its an animated rope, its a rope of entanglement - your GM is free to impose other circumstance bonuses.

Otherwise, RAW.

No I referred to after the opponent is pinned. Not going from grapple to tie up. I meant in the round after I pin my opponent. Which is stated in my opening sentence.

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I don't think you understood what I said. The rules say what is required.
No additional penalties than what is required.

So if you are grappled, the penalty is -10. Boom, youre tied.
If you have him pinned, there is no penalty to the roll. Maintain the grapple; tie him up.

Essentially its

Grapple - you win.
He gets to escape - you win
Grapple - you get to pin
He gets to escape - you win
Grapple to maintain (no penalties)
Tie him up.

You have to have your opponent Pinned to Tie him Up, and you take the -10 penalty when you do.

Core Grappling, Tie Up wrote:
If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up.

There is even a special class ability that lets you get around just this thing.

Cavalier, Order of the Penitent wrote:
Expert Captor (Ex): At 2nd level, as long as he has rope, the cavalier can tie up a grappled opponent, even if the opponent is not pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, and he does not take the usual –10 penalty on his combat maneuver check to do so.

I posted this on another Thread. Atalius, you were on that thread.

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I agree with Perfect Tommy that that -10 penalty must subsume the -4 penalty for not having 2 hands free--having rope in your hands. Otherwise, they would have mentioned that you take an additional -4 for having rope instead of victim in your hands. They make no mention of that in the Tie Up section of Grappling.

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