paizo.com Recent Posts in How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?paizo.com Recent Posts in How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?2017-10-28T22:12:23Z2017-10-28T22:12:23ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?BigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#672017-11-03T10:36:28Z2017-11-02T04:01:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Fromper wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I'm surprised nobody here is talking about pregens.
</p>
</blockquote><p>People like playing their own characters.
<p>pregens will not help you. Pregens can get you from level 1 to level 2 but you need to play the character to get from 2 to 3 for the 3- 7s. </p>
<p>Filling in the table with 3-7s means you're playing up or they're playing down, and thats a big power gap.</p>Fromper wrote:I'm surprised nobody here is talking about pregens.
People like playing their own characters. pregens will not help you. Pregens can get you from level 1 to level 2 but you need to play the character to get from 2 to 3 for the 3- 7s.
Filling in the table with 3-7s means you're playing up or they're playing down, and thats a big power gap.BigNorseWolf2017-11-02T04:01:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Ascalaphushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#662017-11-01T23:49:00Z2017-11-01T21:56:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Wasko wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Lau Bannenberg wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Earl, could you tell us more about how that local situation developed? It sounds strange to me - how did people exhaust the 1-5/3-7 range without ending up at level 7+?</p>
<p>What kind of scheduling methods do you use?</p>
<p>Do people have difficulty actually reaching higher level, or do they just really prefer lower level play? </blockquote>I haven't been running PFS nearly as long as Earl has, but I organize in the same state and see a lot of overlap with him. Earl can probably provide a more comprehensive response than I can, but I can at least give a little context.</blockquote><p>I'm going to cherrypick a bit in your and Earl's responses to try to make this a climbable wall of text.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Wasko wrote:</div><blockquote>Personally, I invite my regular players to a Google Spreadsheet of events they've already played and/or GMed so I can poll for interest in a particular level range and slot events that are new for them in that tier.</blockquote><p>We used to use a Google spreadsheet to organize games in the Netherlands as well, but it became increasingly hard; it had about 50 people in it, and lots of people fiddling with it. And not everyone is good at extracting information from big sheets. So we developed the <a href="https://www.pfstracker.net/#/search" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">session tracker</a> to make this process much easier.
<p>For savvy organizers it's just a convenience, but for more casual GMs it makes a big difference - lets them find viable scenarios for any given group of players that they'd not otherwise stumble across.</p>
<p>The combination with Warhorn is particularly good - get people to sign up to a To Be Determined table on Warhorn, and when you have a couple of signups, run those people through the tracker to select scenarios. Or, if you know the people you'd like to lure to a location, query it to find scenarios those people can play.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Earl Gendron wrote:</div><blockquote><p> So for some more information:
</p>
we are in Lau's "small but nearby venues with overlapping players" scenario. We have about 5 stores within 45 minutes of each other, and most players live in between 2 of them, and actively participate in both. It seems every time a book of new classes comes out, at least 50% of our players start new characters and straight up abandon their old ones.</blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Wasko wrote:</div><blockquote>B) interest in the new content Paizo produces that leads to making a characters. Some more veteran players have gotten mildly frustrated with this pattern in the past, but mostly they're cool with making new characters to try out new builds, so it hasn't really bubbled up. I'm sure this has something to do with the availability of conventions: I see a lot of players from around the area bring their high-level PCs to cons after level grinding the 1-5s at routine store events.</blockquote><p>People going after new content like catnip is a problem we've occasionally struggled with, but currently it's not a real problem for us. I'm not sure why exactly we dodged this bullet - a discussion on how to reduce this (annoying) phenomenon would be a good topic in its own right. I do think this is a "dysfunction" that you should investigate.
<p>We don't have a "Con culture" in the Netherlands like you seem to have; 80% of PFS play happens at regular game days, about 10% in stores and only 10% at Cons. Then again, for a lot of us there's the outlet in Utrecht where 7-11 tables are fairly common; almost every week there's at least a 9-5 or 7-11, sometimes both, alongside the 1-5 table.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Christopher Wasko wrote:</div><blockquote>From what I've seen around the state, the exhaustive playing of low-level scenarios stems from a combination of A) players' fear of their PCs that they become attached to dying to in higher tier scenarios, and </blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Earl Gendron wrote:</div><blockquote><p>I think a lot of it is comfort. If you look at our table makeups... 90% of the PCs are melee classes... I can only think of a handful of wizards, and maybe 6 Clerics, 2 of which were negative chandlers. there are a few more Oracles out there, and a number of the Advanced Class Guide hybrid classes.. Once they get to the higher level they realize that they can't form a balanced table, and there is a new shiny class book, so they start a new character.... most of the time in a new Melee class again, so the cycle starts over. The times that people fall out of their comfort zones and play casters/healers, and we can get balanced high level tables, we are most likely to see the current group hit high levels.... its something we've discussed, but few players would prefer high level play over the classes they like.</p>
<p>We've also lost a bunch of GMs in the past year that have moved out of state, so a good number of those casters/healers skipped the first few levels as GM babies. So access to stable tables through those characters has decreased as well.</blockquote><p>Here we seem to have the real problem I think - and without meaning to sound nasty, I would call this a dysfunctional situation. Strictly speaking, to serve the current demand for your scene, the best Paizo could do would be to publish 1-5s to the exclusion of everything else. But that wouldn't go down so well in the rest of the world :P
<p>I would say that you should aim to make changes to this culture, such as:</p>
<p><ul>
<br />
<li> Keep telling people that high-tier scenarios are really fun. Emphasize the positive aspects, that you get to be a kick-ass hero doing awesome things. Don't scare people with tales of problems that people with only low-tier experience don't know how to handle.</p>
<p><li> Grab a group of more experienced people and begin a long-term effort to get people to play higher-tier and learn the ropes. The goal is to form groups with enough experienced players to hand-hold the fearful debutantes and ensure a succesful and fun outcome of the scenario.</p>
<p><li> Make sure to schedule mid/high level scenarios of mild to moderate difficulty; leave the brutal stuff to the side for now. For now the goal is to let the players try out the awesome powers of a level 5-9 PC in a safe-enough environment. When they start getting a taste for the powers they get, they might become less eager to build entirely new PCs all the time.</p>
<p><li> You mention that it's hard to get a balanced party together - I can imagine. Playing a healer at low tier is frankly dull; anyone with a wand can do your job. But around level 5 clerics start getting real capabilities and shortly after you start needing those capabilities. Leveling a healer/support PC is an excellent use of GM credit to get through the dull bits. </p>
<p>So encourage a few experienced people to make support characters. Cleric who can kiss and make it all better. Wizard with Haste, Fly and Dimension Door to function as logistics expert to make sure the barbarians don't get killed at distance. At level 5 or so these classes start to be quite fulfilling to play, anyway.</p>
<p><li> There's a lot of learning from example involved in Pathfinder. People see someone else be awesome with a character, and next time they build a character they make something similar. We get this all the time too - waves of 2H people, waves of SoS casters and whatnot. Your players seem to have been starved for examples of things other than melee builds - so aim to show them. Be helpful in explaining the inner workings of how it's done.
<br />
</ul></p>
<p>In summary: form a conspiracy to change/educate your local meta, since it sounds like it isn't really all that fulfilling to you.</p>Christopher Wasko wrote:Lau Bannenberg wrote:Earl, could you tell us more about how that local situation developed? It sounds strange to me - how did people exhaust the 1-5/3-7 range without ending up at level 7+?
What kind of scheduling methods do you use?
Do people have difficulty actually reaching higher level, or do they just really prefer lower level play?
I haven't been running PFS nearly as long as Earl has, but I organize in the same state and see a lot of overlap with him. Earl...Ascalaphus2017-11-01T21:56:47ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?DM Livginhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#652017-11-01T21:55:36Z2017-11-01T21:55:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Steven Schopmeyer wrote:</div><blockquote> I prefer to avoid thrusting new players into 7-11, especially with our 10-11 characters that usually sign up. A combination of being low man on the totem pole with highly optimized companions tends to be a bad first impression, especially for those just learning the ropes. </blockquote><p>You are a good man. My 5th PFS game was a lvl 7 seoni at a 10-11 table, was killed by AoO. My 6th PFS game was 6-02 with a fresh lvl 3 character the just went from 1 to 3 from Dragon's Demand, he died in the first encounter (TPK). It was 2-3 weeks before I came back to PFS.Steven Schopmeyer wrote:I prefer to avoid thrusting new players into 7-11, especially with our 10-11 characters that usually sign up. A combination of being low man on the totem pole with highly optimized companions tends to be a bad first impression, especially for those just learning the ropes.
You are a good man. My 5th PFS game was a lvl 7 seoni at a 10-11 table, was killed by AoO. My 6th PFS game was 6-02 with a fresh lvl 3 character the just went from 1 to 3 from Dragon's Demand, he...DM Livgin2017-11-01T21:55:36ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?DM Livginhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#642017-11-01T21:29:59Z2017-11-01T21:29:59Z<p>I don't have a horse in this race, I haven't ran out of scenarios.</p>
<p>I started playing in Season 6 and am doing fine for scenarios with 165 played and 57 GMed. I'm still pulling 1-5 scenarios from season 4-6 to GM as I've played in them.</p>
<p>I'm dealing with the small lodge, single table problem and am going to pull out some old tier 1-7 scenarios to bridge the group split where we have a few lvl 2s and a few lvl 4s.</p>I don't have a horse in this race, I haven't ran out of scenarios.
I started playing in Season 6 and am doing fine for scenarios with 165 played and 57 GMed. I'm still pulling 1-5 scenarios from season 4-6 to GM as I've played in them.
I'm dealing with the small lodge, single table problem and am going to pull out some old tier 1-7 scenarios to bridge the group split where we have a few lvl 2s and a few lvl 4s.DM Livgin2017-11-01T21:29:59ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Fromperhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#632017-11-01T21:28:32Z2017-11-01T21:28:32Z<p>We have enough tables to divide up into high and low subtier of the same adventure, so the level 7 pregens are always at the 7-8 tables. </p>
<p>Giving newbies pregens is something we do more than I'd like - if I was the one doing the scheduling, I'd include an older 1-5 during the weeks that we're running the new high tier stuff, but our venture-agent doesn't schedule that way. It works out, even if it's not ideal. </p>
<p>But I was just throwing out other options for those who feel they always need to put the newbies at 1-2 tables. That would be the ideal, but life isn't always ideal.</p>We have enough tables to divide up into high and low subtier of the same adventure, so the level 7 pregens are always at the 7-8 tables.
Giving newbies pregens is something we do more than I'd like - if I was the one doing the scheduling, I'd include an older 1-5 during the weeks that we're running the new high tier stuff, but our venture-agent doesn't schedule that way. It works out, even if it's not ideal.
But I was just throwing out other options for those who feel they always need to...Fromper2017-11-01T21:28:32ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?TriOmegaZerohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#622017-11-03T10:35:52Z2017-11-01T20:29:15Z<p>I prefer to avoid thrusting new players into 7-11, especially with our 10-11 characters that usually sign up. A combination of being low man on the totem pole with highly optimized companions tends to be a bad first impression, especially for those just learning the ropes.</p>I prefer to avoid thrusting new players into 7-11, especially with our 10-11 characters that usually sign up. A combination of being low man on the totem pole with highly optimized companions tends to be a bad first impression, especially for those just learning the ropes.TriOmegaZero2017-11-01T20:29:15ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Fromperhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#612017-11-01T20:26:43Z2017-11-01T20:26:43Z<p>I'm surprised nobody here is talking about pregens. At my local store, we have 2-3 tables every week. Whenever we schedule new scenarios, they're the only thing on the schedule, and we almost always fill 3 tables. And if it's higher tier, that means some of the newer players have to pick up a pregen since they don't have a higher level PC yet, but that's what they do. They usually take the 500 gp and apply it to a level 1, to skip some low level play and try to catch up.</p>
<p>So yes, you can schedule higher level stuff, even if a portion of your players don't have PCs at that level. Don't do it too often, since most people prefer to play their own PCs. But groups shouldn't feel that they MUST always put a 1-5 on the schedule just because there's a newbie attending who doesn't have a higher level PC.</p>I'm surprised nobody here is talking about pregens. At my local store, we have 2-3 tables every week. Whenever we schedule new scenarios, they're the only thing on the schedule, and we almost always fill 3 tables. And if it's higher tier, that means some of the newer players have to pick up a pregen since they don't have a higher level PC yet, but that's what they do. They usually take the 500 gp and apply it to a level 1, to skip some low level play and try to catch up.
So yes, you can...Fromper2017-11-01T20:26:43ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?TriOmegaZerohttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#602017-11-01T20:24:47Z2017-11-01T20:24:47Z<p>Phoenix is also in the case of multiple small stores with overlapping populations. We can get up to 5-6 tables at once when needed, which is handy for the multi-table specials, but our usual turnout is 2-3 tables at a time. I mostly handle burn out by scheduling the same adventures at multiple stores so that players can attend the location that best suits their schedule and location. We've had an influx of newer players that has allowed us to run the older 1-5s without inconveniencing the older players as well, but scheduling has mostly been throwing a few offerings up and seeing who bites.</p>Phoenix is also in the case of multiple small stores with overlapping populations. We can get up to 5-6 tables at once when needed, which is handy for the multi-table specials, but our usual turnout is 2-3 tables at a time. I mostly handle burn out by scheduling the same adventures at multiple stores so that players can attend the location that best suits their schedule and location. We've had an influx of newer players that has allowed us to run the older 1-5s without inconveniencing the...TriOmegaZero2017-11-01T20:24:47ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Tallow (alias of Andrew Christian)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#592017-11-01T19:51:10Z2017-11-01T19:51:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Earl Gendron wrote:</div><blockquote><p> So for some more information:
</p>
we are in Lau's "small but nearby venues with overlapping players" scenario. We have about 5 stores within 45 minutes of each other, and most players live in between 2 of them, and actively participate in both. It seems every time a book of new classes comes out, at least 50% of our players start new characters and straight up abandon their old ones. </p>
<p>I think a lot of it is comfort. If you look at our table makeups... 90% of the PCs are melee classes... I can only think of a handful of wizards, and maybe 6 Clerics, 2 of which were negative chandlers. there are a few more Oracles out there, and a number of the Advanced Class Guide hybrid classes.. Once they get to the higher level they realize that they can't form a balanced table, and there is a new shiny class book, so they start a new character.... most of the time in a new Melee class again, so the cycle starts over. The times that people fall out of their comfort zones and play casters/healers, and we can get balanced high level tables, we are most likely to see the current group hit high levels.... its something we've discussed, but few players would prefer high level play over the classes they like.</p>
<p>We've also lost a bunch of GMs in the past year that have moved out of state, so a good number of those casters/healers skipped the first few levels as GM babies. So access to stable tables through those characters has decreased as well. </p>
<p></blockquote><p>Have you tried running only level 5-9 or 7-11 tables and basically letting the players know if they want to play that month, they need to use some of their older characters.Earl Gendron wrote:So for some more information:
we are in Lau's "small but nearby venues with overlapping players" scenario. We have about 5 stores within 45 minutes of each other, and most players live in between 2 of them, and actively participate in both. It seems every time a book of new classes comes out, at least 50% of our players start new characters and straight up abandon their old ones. I think a lot of it is comfort. If you look at our table makeups... 90% of the PCs are melee...Tallow (alias of Andrew Christian)2017-11-01T19:51:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?1bent1https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#582017-11-01T19:50:09Z2017-11-01T19:50:09Z<p>I play out of the Anchorage Lodge and we go thru Tier 1-5 voraciously. We have a small group, and we are rarely able to field 2 tables (Starfinder has brought in additional players). We have a consistent group of 5-7 people most game days.</p>
<p>Looking back at the games I have Played/GMed since starting in June of 2016 the break down has been rouighly:
<br />
Multi Tier Special 1 (level 2)
<br />
Tier 1-2 or quests: 4
<br />
Tier 1-5: 29
<br />
Tier 3-7: 12
<br />
Tier 5-9: 3
<br />
Tier 7-11: 0</p>
<p>Our current schedule for our lodge is roughly this as of now:
<br />
2 Game Days a month at our main site.
<br />
2 games scheduled per game day.
<br />
1 Tier 1-5 per game day
<br />
1 Starfinder game a month
<br />
With the final slot a month alternating between a Tier 3-7 or 5-9.</p>
<p>This is meant to accommodate new players and to build up a stable of characters to choose from when playing. I believe our lodge is only recently have enough players to field a tier 7-11 game.</p>
<p>We try to foster new players so we encourage everyone to have a low level character to run on any given day but we have the same cycle of working to level new players and blance that verse the desire for higher leve play.</p>I play out of the Anchorage Lodge and we go thru Tier 1-5 voraciously. We have a small group, and we are rarely able to field 2 tables (Starfinder has brought in additional players). We have a consistent group of 5-7 people most game days.
Looking back at the games I have Played/GMed since starting in June of 2016 the break down has been rouighly:
Multi Tier Special 1 (level 2)
Tier 1-2 or quests: 4
Tier 1-5: 29
Tier 3-7: 12
Tier 5-9: 3
Tier 7-11: 0
Our current schedule for our lodge is...1bent12017-11-01T19:50:09ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Cpt_kirstovhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#572017-11-01T18:33:10Z2017-11-01T18:33:10Z<p>So for some more information:
<br />
we are in Lau's "small but nearby venues with overlapping players" scenario. We have about 5 stores within 45 minutes of each other, and most players live in between 2 of them, and actively participate in both. It seems every time a book of new classes comes out, at least 50% of our players start new characters and straight up abandon their old ones. </p>
<p>I think a lot of it is comfort. If you look at our table makeups... 90% of the PCs are melee classes... I can only think of a handful of wizards, and maybe 6 Clerics, 2 of which were negative chandlers. there are a few more Oracles out there, and a number of the Advanced Class Guide hybrid classes.. Once they get to the higher level they realize that they can't form a balanced table, and there is a new shiny class book, so they start a new character.... most of the time in a new Melee class again, so the cycle starts over. The times that people fall out of their comfort zones and play casters/healers, and we can get balanced high level tables, we are most likely to see the current group hit high levels.... its something we've discussed, but few players would prefer high level play over the classes they like.</p>
<p>We've also lost a bunch of GMs in the past year that have moved out of state, so a good number of those casters/healers skipped the first few levels as GM babies. So access to stable tables through those characters has decreased as well.</p>So for some more information:
we are in Lau's "small but nearby venues with overlapping players" scenario. We have about 5 stores within 45 minutes of each other, and most players live in between 2 of them, and actively participate in both. It seems every time a book of new classes comes out, at least 50% of our players start new characters and straight up abandon their old ones.
I think a lot of it is comfort. If you look at our table makeups... 90% of the PCs are melee classes... I can...Cpt_kirstov2017-11-01T18:33:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Christopher Wasko (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#562017-11-01T17:36:58Z2017-11-01T17:36:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lau Bannenberg wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Earl, could you tell us more about how that local situation developed? It sounds strange to me - how did people exhaust the 1-5/3-7 range without ending up at level 7+?</p>
<p>What kind of scheduling methods do you use?</p>
<p>Do people have difficulty actually reaching higher level, or do they just really prefer lower level play? </blockquote><p>I haven't been running PFS nearly as long as Earl has, but I organize in the same state and see a lot of overlap with him. Earl can probably provide a more comprehensive response than I can, but I can at least give a little context.
<p>In CT the PFS leadership typically tries to reserve new scenarios for conventions; there are quite a few in the area between Boston and New York, and we want to avoid having to turn players away from convention tables due to having already played the scenario as much as possible. We normally dive back into older seasons for monthly store events, or do something a little more special if a regular group shows up (in SW CT, where I operate, we have one GM running the Emerald Spire with his regulars, and we had several sessions of Thornkeep at monthly tables). Personally, I invite my regular players to a Google Spreadsheet of events they've already played and/or GMed so I can poll for interest in a particular level range and slot events that are new for them in that tier. </p>
<p>From what I've seen around the state, the exhaustive playing of low-level scenarios stems from a combination of A) players' fear of their PCs that they become attached to dying to in higher tier scenarios, and B) interest in the new content Paizo produces that leads to making a characters. Some more veteran players have gotten mildly frustrated with this pattern in the past, but mostly they're cool with making new characters to try out new builds, so it hasn't really bubbled up. I'm sure this has something to do with the availability of conventions: I see a lot of players from around the area bring their high-level PCs to cons after level grinding the 1-5s at routine store events. </p>
<p>Thus far, CT PFS membership has a high floor but a low ceiling: our base is loyal and regularly attends events, but they are spread out and don't frequently invite others to participate (making recruitment one of our ongoing areas of concern). I typically struggle to field a single table in my usual store because my regular player base hovers right around the single-table range, meaning one or two absences for life events combined with one or two no-shows means the table doesn't fire. </p>
<p>We're currently undergoing a shift in leadership and some changes to store availability, so things are very much in flux right now, but in the past we've had one location field two standard tables (one low, one higher), one alternate standard and Core bi-weekly or monthly (almost always low, for the reasons I detailed), and my store that I described above (typically standard of varying levels). Starfinder Society has also added a whole other ball of wax to our scheduling: currently my local players are really into it, and we've used it a little for recruiting new players, so for now we've shifted to almost exclusively Starfinder tables until interest in returning to PFS increases. For scheduling and communication, we use combinations of Facebook, Warhorn, and email depending on the needs of the area. </p>
<p>Long answer to a short question, perhaps, but in response to Lau we mostly field low-level tables because that's what our base tends to want to play.</p>Lau Bannenberg wrote:Earl, could you tell us more about how that local situation developed? It sounds strange to me - how did people exhaust the 1-5/3-7 range without ending up at level 7+?
What kind of scheduling methods do you use?
Do people have difficulty actually reaching higher level, or do they just really prefer lower level play?
I haven't been running PFS nearly as long as Earl has, but I organize in the same state and see a lot of overlap with him. Earl can probably provide a...Christopher Wasko (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2017-11-01T17:36:58ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?GreySector (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#552017-11-01T16:52:21Z2017-11-01T16:52:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">BigNorseWolf wrote:</div><blockquote> Its a matter of the game doesn't go any higher rather than PFS doesn't go any higher. The hobby is full of completionists. </blockquote><p>I understand completionism, and am guilty of it myself, but in my mind completionism is "gotta catch 'em all". So while I'd like to play and run everything in core and standard, getting a character to 20th level as a goal in and of itself has no appeal to me.
<p>On topic, I have 20+ characters in standard, and don't want to make any more. I slow track my 1-5 characters, as once they reach +6 I don't get to play them very often. Here is a summary of my characters (not including GM credit) from their sessions pages.</p>
<p><ul><li>1 - Human Level 16. Last played 5/28/17 (All for Immortality). Before that 2/17/14. Played 4 times in 2010, 0 times in 2011, 19 times in 2012, 7 times in 2013, 1 time in 2014, 0 times in 2016, and 3 times in 2017.
<br />
<li>2 - Dwarf Level 16. Last played 8/22/15 (Wardens of the Reborn Forge). Before that 5/23/15 and 3/9/14. Actively played 4/13/12—9/21/14.
<br />
<li>3 - Human Level 16. Last played 10/22/17 (Unleashing the Untouchable). Before that 12/28/15. Played 9 times in 2012, 13 times in 2013, 5 times in 2014, 5 times in 2015, 0 times in 2016, and 1 time in 2017.
<br />
<li>4 - Aasimar Level 17. Last played 8/13/16 (The Moonscar). Before that 2/26/16, 1/16/16, and 1/31/15. Played 6 times in 2012, 16 times in 2013, 8 times in 2014, 1 time in 2015, and 3 times in 2016.
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<li>5 - Kitsune Level 10. Last played 5/13/17 (Refugees of the Weary Sky). Before that 3/16/17. Played 3 times in 2012, 6 times in 2013, 6 times in 2014, 2 times in 2015, 5 times in 2016, and 2 times in 2017.
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<li>6 - Aasimar Level 8. Last played 3/7/17 (Of Kirin and Kraken). Played 3 times in 2013, 2 times in 2014, and 1 time in 2015.
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<li>7 - Elf Level 11. Last played 10/29/16 (Wardens of Sulfur Gulch). Played 3 times in 2013, 6 times in 2014, 3 times in 2015, and 3 times in 2016.
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<li>8 - Human Level 8. Last played 12/11/16 (From the Tome of Righteous Repose). Before that 1/2/16. Played 3 times in 2014, and 2 times in 2016.
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<li>9 - Wayang Level 10. Last played 11/15/14 (Bonekeep 3). Played 5 times in 2013, and 5 times in 2014.
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<li>10 - Gnome Level 8. Last played 9/28/14 (Thornkeep Sanctum of a Lost Age). Played 11 times in 2013, and 1 time in 2014.
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<li>11 - Human Level 9. Last played 2/21/15 (No Response From Deepmar). Played 8 times in 2013, 4 times in 2014, and 2 times in 2015.
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<li>12 - Aasimar Level 7. Last played 11/12/16 (From the Tome of Righteous Repose). Played 10 times in 2013, 3 times in 2014, 0 times in 2015, and 4 times in 2016
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<li>13 - Grippli Level 5. Last played 8/16/14 (Assault on the Wound). Played 3 times in 2013, and 2 times in 2014. I actually stopped playing this character because I was unahppy with him and with Assault on the Wound.
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<li>14 - Ifrit Level 8. Last played 4/27/17 (Hrethnar's Throne). Played 1 time in 2013, 3 times in 2014, 12 times in 2015, 0 times in 2016, 1 time in 2017.
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<li>15 - Aasimar Level 7. Last played 9/3/17 (Solstice Scar A). Played 2 times in 2014, 3 times in 2015, 0 times in 2016, and 4 times in 2017.
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<li>16 - Human Level 9. Last played 3/20/16 (Cult of the Ebon Destroyers). Played 5 times in 2014, 3 times in 2015, and 2 times in 2016.
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<li>17 - Halfling Level 8. Last played 9/14/17 (Raid on Cloudborne Keep). Played 4 times in 2014, 4 times in 2015, 2 times in 2016, and 3 times in 2017.
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<li>18 - Suli Level 4. Last played 5/28/16 (Murder's Mark). Played 1 time in 2014, and 1 time in 2016.
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<li>19 - Sylph Level 6. Last played 3/24/17 (Hrethnar's Throne). Played 1 time in 2015, 4 times in 2016, and 2 times in 2017.
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<li>20 - Samsaran Level 6. Last played 8/19/17 (Graves of Crystalmaw Pass). Played 1 time in 2015, 4 times in 2016, 4 times in 2017.
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<li><span class=messageboard-ooc>21—40 reserved for Core characters</span>
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<li>41 - Dhampir Level 4. Last played 4/30/16 (Midnight Mirror). Played 1 time in 2015, and 2 times in 2016.
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<li>42 - Ganzi Level 6. Last played 7/14/17 (Champion's Chalice Part 2). Played 2 times in 2017.
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<li>43 - not played
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<li>44 - Human Level 6. Last played 10/21/17 (Assault on Absalom). Played 4 times in 2016, and 3 times in 2017.
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<li>45 - Human Level 4. Last played 10/6/16 (Emerald Spire Level 5). Played 3 times in 2016.
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<li>46 - Halfling Level 3. Last played 4/20/17 (To Seal the Shadow). Played 2 times in 2016, and 2 times in 2017.</ul></p>BigNorseWolf wrote:Its a matter of the game doesn't go any higher rather than PFS doesn't go any higher. The hobby is full of completionists.
I understand completionism, and am guilty of it myself, but in my mind completionism is "gotta catch 'em all". So while I'd like to play and run everything in core and standard, getting a character to 20th level as a goal in and of itself has no appeal to me. On topic, I have 20+ characters in standard, and don't want to make any more. I slow track my...GreySector (RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8)2017-11-01T16:52:21ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Tallow (alias of Andrew Christian)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#542017-11-01T15:58:23Z2017-11-01T15:58:23Z<p>I think certainly Lau hits the nail on the head on the difficulties of transitioning a group from tier to tier based on the typical table count per area (not just per venue) per game day.</p>
<p>When the Twin Cities was still small and starting out at 2-4 tables, twice per month, total, Ryan Bolduan, our Venture-Captain at the time, had the luxury of setting up a system by which he would not assign seats to any player before they showed up. The region was in its infancy back in February and March of 2011, and most players hadn't played anything, let alone most things. So every player could play anything offered that day. So Ryan would organize things so players would play at different tables, and he would manufacture tier transition by keeping track of roughly what level each player was. We had 20 to 30 active players and most of us had 1 to 3 characters total.</p>
<p>But generally players did not have the choice which scenario they played, and if they had a level 5 or 7 character, then Ryan would assign them to a higher tier table, thus pushing their characters to higher and higher levels. This was a luxury with a region where most of the players could play anything with a strong enough base where minimum 2 tables would happen and new players showing up could be put at the low tier table as necessary and the "veteran" players could be put at the high tier table as necessary. In some cases, Ryan determined the necessity of putting "veteran" players at the high tier tables based solely on making sure their characters leveled up to the next tier.</p>
<p>While the region doesn't work this way anymore, most seats are pre-assigned at least a week out or more, and players often can only play one of the offered scenarios at any given game day, the attitude of leveling up and playing higher tier became the paradigm of the region.</p>
<p>I don't have much experience in the way in which a region can change this attitude and paradigm, since we started out that way. But it seems to be that the easiest way to do it is to stop offering low tier tables for veteran players and only offer high tier tables. Force them to play higher tiers. And if they don't sign up or show up, then cancel the game day. Make sure they understand if they want to play, they have to level their characters up. That really is the only way to ensure a healthy player base when you have the luxury of multiple tables per game day event.</p>
<p>I'm frankly glad I don't live in a region where the struggle to get a single table per game day makes it nearly impossible to consistently get characters to higher tiers.</p>
<p>But it does kinda irk me, that because organizers aren’t willing to manufacture tier transition in their scheduling, that this kinda puts other regions in a bind for higher level content. The dearth of high level options is a significant problem in some regions, and while there are some regions where the opposite problem is true through no fault of the organizers, any larger region that has a consistent player base of 20-30 players that isn’t ensuring a healthy tier transition schedule is hurting the entirety of organized play from a scenario metrics and need standpoint.</p>I think certainly Lau hits the nail on the head on the difficulties of transitioning a group from tier to tier based on the typical table count per area (not just per venue) per game day.
When the Twin Cities was still small and starting out at 2-4 tables, twice per month, total, Ryan Bolduan, our Venture-Captain at the time, had the luxury of setting up a system by which he would not assign seats to any player before they showed up. The region was in its infancy back in February and March...Tallow (alias of Andrew Christian)2017-11-01T15:58:23ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Ascalaphushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#532017-11-03T02:45:55Z2017-11-01T13:55:25Z<p>Relax, have a cup of tea. This might be a long post.</p>
<p>At first glance, the current balance of scenarios seems to be working reasonably well for my neck of the woods. Right now that is; a year back things were harder, even though the balance of tiers hasn't changed hugely since. Rather, I think the structure of our local scene has shifted a bit.</p>
<p>What tier distribution works well probably has a lot to do with the way your local scene is organized. If you usually fire just a single table, and you start off at the beginning every time a new player joins, you're going to burn through 1-5s and never really use the higher tiers. If you usually seat 3+ tables and use some scheduling techniques, you should be able to fire tables across multiple tiers most of the time. If you have several venues with partially overlapping player populations that each seat 1-2 tables at a time, you can still progress but you have to step up your scheduling game a bit. Finally, GMing also factors in; "play at venue X, then GM at venue Y" can help. I'll go into each in more detail now.</p>
<p><b>Situation: single venue, 1 table</b>
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This is really the trickiest situation. If you have a venue that gets just about one table to fire most of the time, you can only really go into the higher levels if you have a consistent player group. If you want to be open to new people joining, it means you'll be playing a lot of low tier. You can try to offset this a bit with very attentive scheduling/PR:
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1) Get people to sign up for the day.
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2) Pick a high-level scenario that everyone can play in. If the highest you can do is 3-7, so be it; just keep driving upwards. Since you have a small group of people, you should be able to get a clear picture of what level and scenarios everyone can play.
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3) Pick a backup 1-x scenario in case new people show up.
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4) When game day rolls around, play the plan A scenario if possible, plan B otherwise. The one that wasn't played stays prepared and goes into the bag for next time.
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It's not ideal, but at least it gives you some hope of progress. Note that if you have a stable group with few new recruits, then making more progress becomes more doable.</p>
<p><b>Situation: larger venue with 2-4 tables</b>
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This is really the best situation to be in (well, apart from even bigger venues, but that doesn't happen over here). It's what we have in Utrecht, where Tineke and Quentin preside. We use Warhorn and set up 2-3 To Be Determined slots for the coming couple of months. People sign up to those and indicate a level they'd like to play. This usually leads to some sorting where slot 1 gets the low-levels and slot 2 gets high-levels and slot 3 gets confusing leftovers. After a couple of people have signed up and/or when the time of play draws closer, someone picks up that slot to GM, and looks up those players in the Session Tracker to see what scenarios they could play. If there's a good choice, that becomes the plan; otherwise some shuffling between tables may be needed but you're already at a "partial solution" with people declaring for preferred levels. Note that we also combine this with a mailing list where GMs and active players offer suggestions on things they'd like to play, tables they'd be willing to switch to and so forth. </p>
<p><b>Situation: small but nearby venues with overlapping players</b>
<br />
This is the situation I find myself in; I VL one such venue and have two VAs in neighbouring towns doing the other two. We have mostly-overlapping player groups here and seat 1-2 tables. Some of us also play in Utrecht, and we're actually the hard ones to schedule for.</p>
<p>For a while, these locations were hard to schedule for, because we were running out of low-tier scenarios that I and the other Utrecht-goers could play, while we got a trickle of new players that meant restarts. Right now we're more stable though, and I think the following have contributed to that:
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- Recruitment isn't very high. (Not a good thing in itself, but it makes things easier.)
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- The Utrecht-goers have all stopped playing low-level scenarios there, saving that pool for running in our own backyard.
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- The more recent recruits are more focused on progressing to higher levels; at about L6 with primary characters, L5 with second characters (modules), L5 with third characters (more modules) and now starting new fourth characters.</p>
<p>I think you could characterize the package of scenarios we're currently playing here as:
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- New 1-5 scenarios that the old guard hasn't played yet.
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- Old guard running scenarios that are prequel to new scenarios with ongoing stories (with or without getting credit).
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- Mid-level and gradually more high-level scenarios that the old guard hasn't played yet.
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- Higher-level scenarios we play in Utrecht, then GM in our area.
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- New mid-level scenarios.</p>
<p>If anything, it seems the 3-7 range is actually the one we're burning through hardest.</p>
<p>Other tricks that have helped us:
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- If we expect only to schedule one table, arrange as GM one of the people who's played so many scenarios that he'd otherwise be one of the most constraining people on what to play (i.e. old guard players). When branching to a second table it's often one of the newer players.
<br />
- Actively plot out schedules a while in advance with knowledge of who's coming and who wants to play what, and which scenarios to save for someone else to run. Obviously the Session Tracker helps a lot.</p>Relax, have a cup of tea. This might be a long post.
At first glance, the current balance of scenarios seems to be working reasonably well for my neck of the woods. Right now that is; a year back things were harder, even though the balance of tiers hasn't changed hugely since. Rather, I think the structure of our local scene has shifted a bit.
What tier distribution works well probably has a lot to do with the way your local scene is organized. If you usually fire just a single table, and...Ascalaphus2017-11-01T13:55:25ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Quentin Coldwaterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#522017-11-01T13:10:22Z2017-10-31T23:43:20Z<p>I'm just gonna chime in with the level 5-6 love. It's my favourite tier to run in specials since people have most of their build complete (if they're going for a certain build), but the game hasn't gone out of whack yet. People have access to cool spells and you're just getting the sense of you becoming a badass, and usually monsters here start becoming interesting as well, without the game turning to a slog. Level 7+ is also fun, but I feel like the combination of crunch and fluff is just right. Anything above that and a lot of flavour goes out of the window for raw power, I feel. Enemy spellcasters become insanely buffed and melee dudes are just dumb beatsticks, and with players it's usually the same. Meanwhile, on tiers 1-4, you're still graduating from adventurer to licensed ass-kicker. Levels 5-6-7 are just that fine line between badass and undefeatable.</p>
<p>That's not to say I don't have fun on high tiers, of course. I recently survived King of the Storval Stairs, and man, that was exciting. But at that point, the game was throwing so much at me, I was too busy dealing with everything to properly enjoy it.</p>I'm just gonna chime in with the level 5-6 love. It's my favourite tier to run in specials since people have most of their build complete (if they're going for a certain build), but the game hasn't gone out of whack yet. People have access to cool spells and you're just getting the sense of you becoming a badass, and usually monsters here start becoming interesting as well, without the game turning to a slog. Level 7+ is also fun, but I feel like the combination of crunch and fluff is just...Quentin Coldwater2017-10-31T23:43:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: How many Tier 1-5 scenarios do we really need each season?Sin of Asmodeus (alias of CptTylorX)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2up2m&page=2?How-many-Tier-15-scenarios-do-we-really-need#512018-02-01T05:22:00Z2017-10-31T23:24:19Z<p>I've stopped playing for the last few months since Gen Con, due to a lack of high level modules. I have around 13 characters in the 7-11 range that I can't play. </p>
<p>It seems self defeating to enjoy a character and know that it has gone to retire at 7, or to die at 10. At least character death at 10 would be acceptable to the abandonment currently happening.</p>
<p>Also, it'd be nice if we had specials like Midnight Mauler, or other things that I could actually run to try to get my 5th star, but the apathy of how things have been going with this game system - I digress, that's something altogether different. </p>
<p>I'd really like to play any of my stable of 10's. Pretty please?</p>I've stopped playing for the last few months since Gen Con, due to a lack of high level modules. I have around 13 characters in the 7-11 range that I can't play.
It seems self defeating to enjoy a character and know that it has gone to retire at 7, or to die at 10. At least character death at 10 would be acceptable to the abandonment currently happening.
Also, it'd be nice if we had specials like Midnight Mauler, or other things that I could actually run to try to get my 5th star, but the...Sin of Asmodeus (alias of CptTylorX)2017-10-31T23:24:19Z