Wanting to make Paladin of Shelyn: How?


Advice


Im looking to build a paladin devoted to Shelyn under Starfinder's system. The question is though, how? Is it more advisable to grab the paladin class and run it through the filter, or just use the tools Starfinder has natively? And if I do that, which is certainly more of an option than with trying to emulate classes such as the sorcerer, I don't know what would work best to that end: An Envoy, a Mystic (Empath), a Solder.. A Solarian.. I could even make an argument for mechanic.

So, what would you recommend?


Priest Theme

Mystic and, soldier or solarian mixed as you chose.


Shelyin being into art and beauty makes me think Icon would not be a bad choice. From there, I like Solarians as being kind of paladinish.

I did create an Icon Solarian and called him Stavian IX. I said he was out to restore the glory that was Taldor, even though nobody remembers with the Gap exactly how glorious Taldor was.


I’d recommend a Soldier that uses the Arcane Assailant fighting style. You will eventually be able to make any weapon into a holy weapon, whether it is a plasma sword, a reaction cannon, or a grenade. Add onto that the Priest theme to get you mysticism as a class skill & an official in-game position as one of Shelyn’s clergy, write up a code of conduct that your space Paladin follows (not because they have to, but because they want to), and you should be good to go.


If you don't want to use mystic levels, connection inkling isn't a bad pick. Also, alien archive has a helmet that lets you detect evil.


I am somehow amazed no one has suggested playing a paladin to play a paladin. Alright, all good thoughts. One of the suggested routes for the soldier suggested taking wisdom so you can get Connection Inkling so they had such a path in mind when writing the book.

On a not unrelated note: What planet(s) do you think would be the most likely to hold followers of Shelyn? Theres nothing to go on that is obvious to me, as the only mentions relating to her are that she's been less communicative and there are shelynium ice mines.


If you want a vague approximation, sure, Priest theme. If you want something that actually *is* a Paladin, someone is going to have to create a Paladin archetype. It probably shouldn't be too difficult, just stick one or two abilities in each archetype slot, and add in the alignment requirement and code of honor. It'd need a little fiddling ( you'd probably lose spellcasting, and detect evil would need some reworking ), but it could be done.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.


Redelia wrote:
If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.

A friend of mine got it and showed me so I've looked that book over and it is not good. It was made by people who clearly had no understanding of the game or at least needed to read it over again before they published it.

There are bonuses offered to AC that do not designate KAC or EAC (tiefling included). There are Dodge bonuses, Sacred bonuses, Shield bonuses... Escape Artist as a skill is evoked.. And the Cleric conversion makes them a 9th level caster with Heavy armor and Full BaB. It isn't worth doing so, but never before has a 3rd party book made me angry.

There are some nice bits and ideas in it, and though it isn't on par with Starfinder proper I like the artwork in the book, but if I have to run a Starfinder book through conversion to get it to run in Starfinder, and.. we have THAT (their cleric)... then there is an issue. Im not going to pretend the system itself is without flaw but it (the Starfairer's Companion) has some glaring issues that should of been caught, especially ones I caught in five minutes of looking at the thing. If I decide to make an actual paladin, Im just going to use the conversion rules in the Core Rulebook, not the re-imagining in that book. If people correct me and tell me that the classes in it are balanced and work well, or if I am somehow mistaken, or even if these are fixed, or whatever... then I'll eat my words and buy a copy myself as an apology.

All that said: Thank you for bringing it up. It is fitting of the subject at hand. I often look to 3rd party options, at least to give me ideas, so.. Im not going to reject one on that basis. I just am one who tends to prefer using what is official.


The_Defiant wrote:
If you don't want to use mystic levels, connection inkling isn't a bad pick. Also, alien archive has a helmet that lets you detect evil.

It only works once per day and only detects evil subtype (so outsiders and dragons) or weapons/items that are evil. There's still no way to detect evil in a humanoid.


Xenocrat wrote:
The_Defiant wrote:
If you don't want to use mystic levels, connection inkling isn't a bad pick. Also, alien archive has a helmet that lets you detect evil.
It only works once per day and only detects evil subtype (so outsiders and dragons) or weapons/items that are evil. There's still no way to detect evil in a humanoid.

As it should be, in my opinion. Paladins are geared towards confronting supernatural evil.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Ventnor wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The_Defiant wrote:
If you don't want to use mystic levels, connection inkling isn't a bad pick. Also, alien archive has a helmet that lets you detect evil.
It only works once per day and only detects evil subtype (so outsiders and dragons) or weapons/items that are evil. There's still no way to detect evil in a humanoid.
As it should be, in my opinion. Paladins are geared towards confronting supernatural evil.

While I agree with this principle, aren’t most supernatural evil monsters obvious enough that you don’t need to detect if they’re evil? Like, for a dragon, you just have to look at its color-coding, and most other evil monsters tend to be doing blatantly evil things like smashing colonies or making possessed victims float, turn their heads backwards and shout obscenities at you when you run into them, meaning that detecting evil in that instance is redundant.


Its less for detecting obviously evil monsters, and more for detecting stuff like dark magic, or supernaturally evil monsters who are concealing themselves ( via shapeshifting say ).Don't forget that high level priests of evil deities eventually start showing up, too.


Metaphysician wrote:
Its less for detecting obviously evil monsters, and more for detecting stuff like dark magic, or supernaturally evil monsters who are concealing themselves ( via shapeshifting say ).Don't forget that high level priests of evil deities eventually start showing up, too.

But they don't gain the (evil) subtype, so this item still doesn't detect them.


Xuldarinar wrote:
Redelia wrote:
If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.
A friend of mine got it and showed me so I've looked that book over and it is not good. It was made by people who clearly had no understanding of the game or at least needed to read it over again before they published it.

Are you sure of that? Starfinder's lead designer, Owen K. C. Stephens, is involved with that product.


Gilfalas wrote:
Xuldarinar wrote:
Redelia wrote:
If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.
A friend of mine got it and showed me so I've looked that book over and it is not good. It was made by people who clearly had no understanding of the game or at least needed to read it over again before they published it.
Are you sure of that? Starfinder's lead designer, Owen K. C. Stephens, is involved with that product.

Im aware of their involvement, and the fact their name is in the book doesn't make it better, it makes errors found therein less excusable. Im certain a lot of it is perfectly usable once converted, but should it be in the hands of the buyer to convert things that should of already been put into the system? Worse.. Should it be in the hands of the buyer with a product that the premise of which is it is a book of converted content?


Xuldarinar wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
Xuldarinar wrote:
Redelia wrote:
If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.
A friend of mine got it and showed me so I've looked that book over and it is not good. It was made by people who clearly had no understanding of the game or at least needed to read it over again before they published it.
Are you sure of that? Starfinder's lead designer, Owen K. C. Stephens, is involved with that product.
Im aware of their involvement, and the fact their name is in the book doesn't make it better, it makes errors found therein less excusable. Im certain a lot of it is perfectly usable once converted, but should it be in the hands of the buyer to convert things that should of already been put into the system? Worse.. Should it be in the hands of the buyer with a product that the premise of which is it is a book of converted content?

Clearly my friend was screwing with me on the larger point, but it still bothers me that there are needed conversions at some points.

The book still needed another round of review in terms of bonus types and the AC issue is present, but.. my mini-crusade against it was unfounded. Bought, reviewed, and praised.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Xuldarinar wrote:
Redelia wrote:
If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.

A friend of mine got it and showed me so I've looked that book over and it is not good. It was made by people who clearly had no understanding of the game or at least needed to read it over again before they published it.

There are bonuses offered to AC that do not designate KAC or EAC (tiefling included). There are Dodge bonuses, Sacred bonuses, Shield bonuses... Escape Artist as a skill is evoked.. And the Cleric conversion makes them a 9th level caster with Heavy armor and Full BaB. It isn't worth doing so, but never before has a 3rd party book made me angry.

There are some nice bits and ideas in it, and though it isn't on par with Starfinder proper I like the artwork in the book, but if I have to run a Starfinder book through conversion to get it to run in Starfinder, and.. we have THAT (their cleric)... then there is an issue. Im not going to pretend the system itself is without flaw but it (the Starfairer's Companion) has some glaring issues that should of been caught, especially ones I caught in five minutes of looking at the thing. If I decide to make an actual paladin, Im just going to use the conversion rules in the Core Rulebook, not the re-imagining in that book. If people correct me and tell me that the classes in it are balanced and work well, or if I am somehow mistaken, or even if these are fixed, or whatever... then I'll eat my words and buy a copy myself as an apology.

All that said: Thank you for bringing it up. It is fitting of the subject at hand. I often look to 3rd party options, at least to give me ideas, so.. Im not going to reject one on that basis. I just am one who tends to prefer using what is official.

You should post this as a (low stars) review of the product.


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Xuldarinar wrote:
Xuldarinar wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
Xuldarinar wrote:
Redelia wrote:
If you're willing to consider third party, I think paladin is among the classes in a book updating Pathfinder classes to Starfinder. Starfarer's Companion, or something like that. It is for sale on Paizo's website.
A friend of mine got it and showed me so I've looked that book over and it is not good. It was made by people who clearly had no understanding of the game or at least needed to read it over again before they published it.
Are you sure of that? Starfinder's lead designer, Owen K. C. Stephens, is involved with that product.
Im aware of their involvement, and the fact their name is in the book doesn't make it better, it makes errors found therein less excusable. Im certain a lot of it is perfectly usable once converted, but should it be in the hands of the buyer to convert things that should of already been put into the system? Worse.. Should it be in the hands of the buyer with a product that the premise of which is it is a book of converted content?

Clearly my friend was screwing with me on the larger point, but it still bothers me that there are needed conversions at some points.

The book still needed another round of review in terms of bonus types and the AC issue is present, but.. my mini-crusade against it was unfounded. Bought, reviewed, and praised.

I believe AC bonuses that don't specify KAC or EAC are bonuses to both types of AC's. I'd have to look at the .pdf again (or was it in the core rulebook?), but I remember reading words to that effect somewhere.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xuldarinar wrote:
On a not unrelated note: What planet(s) do you think would be the most likely to hold followers of Shelyn? Theres nothing to go on that is obvious to me, as the only mentions relating to her are that she's been less communicative and there are shelynium ice mines.

i would say go with what the book hints at and put a center of Shelyn worship on the dark side of Verces.

Shelyn's gone, so she's not going to be popular. But I can see pockets of her cult retreating to somewhere like the Darkside, and establishing colonies for their dwindling faith.


Nah, the most likely place for her followers is still going to be primarily big population centers. Those are the places where art and beauty are both created and appreciated most. There are just fewer of them than in more prominent days.

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Metaphysician wrote:
Nah, the most likely place for her followers is still going to be primarily big population centers. Those are the places where art and beauty are both created and appreciated most. There are just fewer of them than in more prominent days.

eh... i'm thinking the faith retreats to like these isolated artist colonies, like you might find in the wastes of new mexico once upon a time. everyone there is just driven to create beautiful things, and they create these marvelous oases of art and wonder amidst vacuum and abandon.

in which case Darkside Verces is a perfect location.


In among this there is an important question: In Starfinder, what is the relationship between followers of Zon-kuthon and Shelyn.

For example: Least according to the Pathfinder wiki, Clerics of ZK not only don't hurt clerics of Shelyn, but sometimes even try to protect them. Clerics of Shelyn, in turn, tend to turn a blind eye to much of the conduct of Clerics of ZK.

In Starfinder, would this trend continue? Would Priests of ZK perhaps be encouraged to be more protective of the rare follower of Shelyn due to her relative silence?

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xuldarinar wrote:

In among this there is an important question: In Starfinder, what is the relationship between followers of Zon-kuthon and Shelyn.

For example: Least according to the Pathfinder wiki, Clerics of ZK not only don't hurt clerics of Shelyn, but sometimes even try to protect them. Clerics of Shelyn, in turn, tend to turn a blind eye to much of the conduct of Clerics of ZK.

In Starfinder, would this trend continue? Would Priests of ZK perhaps be encouraged to be more protective of the rare follower of Shelyn due to her relative silence?

Shelyn gets a sentence or two in Zon Kuthon's entry. you can read what you want into that.

I think the head canon is that shelyn went to go find out what happened to zon kuthon and she's... over there...


I imagine the status between Kuthites and Shelynites would remain. Its not like the Kuthite church has any vast established differences in operation, so far.


Xuldarinar wrote:

In among this there is an important question: In Starfinder, what is the relationship between followers of Zon-kuthon and Shelyn.

For example: Least according to the Pathfinder wiki, Clerics of ZK not only don't hurt clerics of Shelyn, but sometimes even try to protect them. Clerics of Shelyn, in turn, tend to turn a blind eye to much of the conduct of Clerics of ZK.

In Starfinder, would this trend continue? Would Priests of ZK perhaps be encouraged to be more protective of the rare follower of Shelyn due to her relative silence?

Not to be a pedantic spoilsport, but I looked over the ZK article, and the only reference to Shelyn's followers getting any sort of leway I could find, was this:

" The only one safe from his evil ways is his sister Shelyn, though he grants no such immunity to her faithful."

So.. doesn't seem like his sister's clerics are terribly safe to me.


The_Defiant wrote:
Xuldarinar wrote:

In among this there is an important question: In Starfinder, what is the relationship between followers of Zon-kuthon and Shelyn.

For example: Least according to the Pathfinder wiki, Clerics of ZK not only don't hurt clerics of Shelyn, but sometimes even try to protect them. Clerics of Shelyn, in turn, tend to turn a blind eye to much of the conduct of Clerics of ZK.

In Starfinder, would this trend continue? Would Priests of ZK perhaps be encouraged to be more protective of the rare follower of Shelyn due to her relative silence?

Not to be a pedantic spoilsport, but I looked over the ZK article, and the only reference to Shelyn's followers getting any sort of leway I could find, was this:

" The only one safe from his evil ways is his sister Shelyn, though he grants no such immunity to her faithful."

So.. doesn't seem like his sister's clerics are terribly safe to me.

Interesting that you bring that up.

The information of the ZK one was published in 2008, where as the information for Shelyn was in a forum post by Mike McArtor in 2007.


Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of an evil, sadistic god deciding that no-one gets to pick on his sister, but there seems to be a conflict here.

Personally, I quite like the idea of ruling it like ZK's clerics leaving Shelyn's clerics alone simply becouse it'd be interesting to see those quite objectively horrible people stand up to other evil groups and go '... hell no, you don't touch my baby sister. No-one touches my baby sister!'


The_Defiant wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of an evil, sadistic god deciding that no-one gets to pick on his sister, but there seems to be a conflict here.

Personally, I quite like the idea of ruling it like ZK's clerics leaving Shelyn's clerics alone simply becouse it'd be interesting to see those quite objectively horrible people stand up to other evil groups and go '... hell no, you don't touch my baby sister. No-one touches my baby sister!'

Oh, so do I. It creates room for interesting interactions, and even perhaps individuals/groups that venerate both siblings (though are counted as following one or the other based on alignment).

I've considered making a demigod that stands as a middle ground for the two even.. but thats a discussion for another time and place.


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Xuldarinar wrote:
I've considered making a demigod that stands as a middle ground for the two even.. but thats a discussion for another time and place.

Nonsense, that's an interesting take.

So brother, sister, and their previously unnamed mom, fighting off a migraine because Shelyn and ZK are in the backseat, Shelyn saying "I'm not touching you," followed quickly by "SHE'S TOUCHING ME SHE'S TOUCHING ME!"


AnimatedPaper wrote:
Xuldarinar wrote:
I've considered making a demigod that stands as a middle ground for the two even.. but thats a discussion for another time and place.

Nonsense, that's an interesting take.

So brother, sister, and their previously unnamed mom, fighting off a migraine because Shelyn and ZK are in the backseat, Shelyn saying "I'm not touching you," followed quickly by "SHE'S TOUCHING ME SHE'S TOUCHING ME!"

Far as the demigod notion: Could be a Kyton that ascended and became a LG Empyrial Lord, it could be a priest that revered the siblings and became a demigod in their own right, a celestial that sought to understand the kytons and became something in between.. A gift between the two.. A joint creation.. A heretically rumored spawn of the two.. ect.

And...yeah, I can see Shelyn and KZ doing such, more before he went outside of known reality and watched Hellraiser than after, but still.

I'd explore the concept of someone who follows both with a Paladin, but that can't work with the code of conduct (easily anyways), but then again.. There isn't an official paladin for Starfinder at this point of time, so that aspect is largely a nonissue.


Paladins are entirely allowed to interact with evil parties, if its in the cause of pursuing redemption. There would be limits on what can be tolerated, sure, but you can't encourage someone to be better if you don't actually talk with them. Though this sounds well outside Shelyn's wheelhouse, and would probably be the code of some other, separate deity or celestial.


dot


Necro for that the COM introduces some really nice options for this: specifically, the Crusader connection option, which is basically "I'm a Space Paladin". Complete with mandatory Good Alignment, because your whole deal is "I am Connected to the cosmic forces of Justice, Mercy, and Compassion". Good for both Mystics, and anyone else who wants their Divine Champion archetype to be suitably shiny.

Radiant Oath

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

And CHROME?!


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WITNESS


Starfinder's Companion, I believe it is called, has a good conversion of the Paladin class for Starfinder.

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