Serious Website Issues


Website Feedback

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John, did you happen to notice the year on the cookie expiration?


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Oladon wrote:
John, did you happen to notice the year on the cookie expiration?

HAHaha...No. No, I did not. My brain skipped over it. The "logged out after an hour" thing seems to hold up, though, which is interesting. So either there's an expiration embedded in the cookie, or the server is killing them after about an hour regardless of content, or it's just a crazy coincidence. More mysteries.


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Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Kinda hard to figure the expiration on cookies because I've got other tabs that are constantly open that I haven't touched in over an hour that still have me logged in right now. But I can click a link here within 10 minutes of logging in and still get logged out. I spent about 30 minutes or so just trying to send a message to someone here because every time I hit the send button, it would just log me out. I eventually just had to re write the message with a shorter word count just to get it to work.

EDIT: Holy crap, I got the edit box finally! Lol. Forgot to mention that this was earlier today trying to send the message after the site was back up and running.


Is it just me, or does messagebase activity seem way down now (as if people were staying away until the problem gets fixed) compared to a few weeks ago?


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Slim Jim wrote:
Is it just me, or does messagebase activity seem way down now (as if people were staying away until the problem gets fixed) compared to a few weeks ago?

Of course activity is down. Why waste time trying to post on a board that’s been miserable for days jow? I post a ton here and I’ve hardly been on due to the frustration.


Gerald wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Is it just me, or does messagebase activity seem way down now (as if people were staying away until the problem gets fixed) compared to a few weeks ago?
Of course activity is down. Why waste time trying to post on a board that’s been miserable for days jow? I post a ton here and I’ve hardly been on due to the frustration.

This.

It has been a pain to keep up with PbP campaigns, and I can tell posting in all my games has slowed significantly.

Paizo Employee Senior Software Developer

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I believe we've finally got a release that should be more stable than what's up now. We're doing some more QA on it, and would like to roll it out sometime tomorrow. Some details about what's been going on—

Our website code dates back to the early 2000's, literally there is code from that era still in use. That's a lot of time for the codebase to accrete bug fixes, institutional knowledge and features. Also lines of code, which are widely suspected to be the cause of many bugs. We have something like a quarter-million lines of code, including the internal apps we use for customer service, etc. There are more than 1,500 distinct entry points into that code that result in the generation of an HTML response. So there's a lot of inertia there.

Since the dawn of time the single biggest problem with our website has actually not been that your pages take too long to render. The problem is not that your request takes too long—the problem is all those other people in line ahead of your request. Why are they even in line ahead of you? That is the problem right there. If there's six tellers available, why not pick the teller who's not doing anything right now instead of always going back to the same teller, no matter how long the queue.

How this applies to our site is, first we don't use human tellers, their fingers cramp up too easily. Instead, we launch multiple copies of the program that generates our website, and we call those instances. We run a bunch of instances simultaneously. Each of those instances remembers some things about your visit to our website, like the date you logged in, which page you went to, etc. This data is referred to collectively as a session. Each session belongs to a single instance of the application—which is why you have to keep coming back to the same teller, and why you always get stuck in line behind the guy who's depositing $872.43 in change.

The new code says, hey we'll just keep notes in cubbies behind the tellers. The notes cover what's on each session, and any teller can quick grab the notes and get up to speed to handle any request from any session.

The new code also breaks pages up into smaller chunks and hands them off to multiple processes in parallel for generation. These processes may be down the street in addition to the tellers nearby. These individual chunks get cached, so subsequent requests are that much faster.

These are good changes for us to make, but they are the type that involve challenging assumptions held quite deeply by code, and code does not change its mind easily. We have regression testing and QA but a bunch of these assumptions got through anyway. Naturally some only occur once you're running the code under load, or a particular server gets over 92 percent usage, or….

And now that we've pushed it and then rolled it back, we want to be 100 percent sure before we try it again. So we keep testing. And keep turning over squiggly things under rocks we hadn't moved in years. But now we're pretty sure we've found most of those and smooshed them flat. So, we're hopeful for tomorrow's push but you never know.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Thank you, Gary. This has been good to hear!

Hmm


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And this is why I study Computer Science. Often frustrating, sometimes rewarding, but always fascinating. There's always something new to learn.


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The practice is so different from the study, or at least this is so in my experience. :D


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True. I've run into situations where the compiler does ... interesting things to the source code.


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Seems like there's a six hour outage every day at the moment...


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Almonihah wrote:
The practice is so different from the study, or at least this is so in my experience. :D

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.


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I don't know if this has been reported but I physically can't log in simultaneously on multiple devices.
The second I log in on one device it logs me off on the other.
I figured this would be as a good a place as any to report a bug that seems to be tied to recent issues.

[EDIT] I am also having an issue when I relog that it directs me to http://paizo.com/people

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
thejeff wrote:
Almonihah wrote:
The practice is so different from the study, or at least this is so in my experience. :D
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.

In practice, there is a difference.


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John Woodford wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Almonihah wrote:
The practice is so different from the study, or at least this is so in my experience. :D
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is a difference.

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There is this company down the road from your office that could help with the hosting (okay more than one)


Matthew Downie wrote:
Seems like there's a six hour outage every day at the moment...

This. I'm sincerely glad that capable people who know all the twiddly bits of computer insides are working on it. Thank you. But at the same time it has been headache inducing for more than a few days now to just try and get caught up on my PBPs. First world problems I know... :D Thank you all for your diligent work, and I hope things get squared away with finality in the near future.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Andrew Harasty wrote:
There is this company down the road from your office that could help with the hosting (okay more than one)

SpaceX? Hmmmm. I don't think shooting our servers into the sun will be as useful as you think...

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Lissa Guillet wrote:
Andrew Harasty wrote:
There is this company down the road from your office that could help with the hosting (okay more than one)
SpaceX? Hmmmm. I don't think shooting our servers into the sun will be as useful as you think...

You’d save a fortune on aspirin :3


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Starfinder Superscriber

Another outage today? And what's with the cookie expiration? I use to just leave myself logged into Paizo's messageboards for months at a time, now I have to log in every day....


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yeah, this Constant unscheduled maintenance and other problems is becoming a real problem in trying to GM and play in PBP games on the boards.


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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm now having difficulties accessing the My Downloads page, and when it's accessible, all my files are listed in a weird order and trying to sort then, for example by time added to my downloads results in the whole thing resetting.


Evey time I've posted in a game play thread, my post shows up as a 'new post'.

Grand Lodge Director of Technology

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Everyone, We have finally put the patch in place to correct a majority of these issues. We will continue to monitor the site for any additional issues that may surface.

We very much appreciate your patience,

Thanks
Dean


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Thanks Dean. You're the better Dean btw.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thank you for letting us know about progress. The site seems faster again this evening, in the morning I can let you know about the logging out problem.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Dean Ludwig wrote:

Everyone, We have finally put the patch in place to correct a majority of these issues. We will continue to monitor the site for any additional issues that may surface.

We very much appreciate your patience,

Thanks
Dean

Hi Dean

Presumably you can see this anyway (or I'm imagining it) but the site is running really, really slowly for me at the moment.

I also still face the problem that none of my devices seem to remember the site anymore and I have to keep logging in each visit.

The Exchange

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I don't know. Paizo for me was down for about an hour and I just managed to log back in...like 5 min ago.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'm staying logged in
The sticky threads are no longer filling the page.

The site was extremely slow about two hours ago. Then it went down and I got the goblin screen.

Now its up.
Pages are still moderately slow to load


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
CrystalSeas wrote:
I'm staying logged in..

Hmm, it's probably me then. Thanks.

Is that true if you leave and come back a little later?


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I just bumped my computer out of an approximate 3 hour sleep mode and opened a new browser session and bingo, didn't have to log back in!

Huzzah!

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yep, I'm still logged in this morning, and the site is fast and smooth. At least the biggest problems seem fixed. Thanks for all your hard work, technical people.

Liberty's Edge

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Same here.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

yep, much more stable! Thanks.


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Same for me!


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

My login from last night survived when I opened the page this afternoon. Much improved!

Thanks for your efforts and taking the time to explain the issue.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I was logged out when I first got onto Paizo this morning, but it was probably leftover from yesterday.
So far I haven't had any problems.

Edit: I just noticed that my own posts are showing up as (1 new).


Charles Scholz wrote:

I was logged out when I first got onto Paizo this morning, but it was probably leftover from yesterday.

So far I haven't had any problems.

Edit: I just noticed that my own posts are showing up as (1 new).

This is true for me! I will have to see how it goes in the cuter for proper feedback!

(Also was logged out in my phone, but that's almost certainly legacy.)

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Yeah. We're looking at a few inefficiencies as well right now.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Just a note, the my posts show as 1 new is happening to me as well, but it's intermittent. It seems to depend on how fast I reload my campaign tab after posting.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Also, did you guys ever fix the issue with creating new campaigns with Chrome? I reported it a month ago almost, haven't received a single post back on it from admins.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Well, that didn't last.

After staying logged in yesterday, I was logged out when i got here just now.
And the "flatten" setting was lost
And my own post is still showing as "1 new"

Good news:
The sticky threads are not stuck to the top of the 'flattened messageboard' page

Silver Crusade

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Fun new error:

I was unable to login. "Sign up", "Login" and all that was displayed at the top right of the screen, but they were only text, not links (Looked into the source code: Only <li>Sign Up</> and so on, no <href="[whatever]"> anywhere).

Deleted my cookies, works now.
You might want to look into that.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Blackbot wrote:

Fun new error:

I was unable to login. "Sign up", "Login" and all that was displayed at the top right of the screen, but they were only text, not links (Looked into the source code: Only <li>Sign Up</> and so on, no <href="[whatever]"> anywhere).

Deleted my cookies, works now.
You might want to look into that.

Were you coming in via an RSS or Atom feed, per chance?


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Just wanted to say thank you for fixing the problem. I hope there aren't anymore like this one was.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I did have to log back in today, but it may be that the fix for that particular issue came in after I shut down yesterday. I can check again tomorrow now that I know this was not a me thing or a Firefox thing, v56.X has had some issues for me, thought this might be one of them.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

The site is moving at a crawl for me this evening. It’s takes forever for a post to show up.

Silver Crusade

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I've been finding the timing very slow at times and quite good at other times.

It can go to glacial (timing out sometimes) to quite quick and back to glacial again. No obvious pattern that I've noticed in my activities.

Liberty's Edge

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Still had to log in again on iPhone just now ...

Site is crawling for me as well

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