Breaking into a safe

[Lynos]

Hey guys

What would you say would be a sensible way to break into a safe according to Pathfinder rules, other than finding out the combination obviously?

Will a spell of Shatter work?

Will acid make any difference?

Just bludgeoning the thing with an axe?

And how would you time it?

I'm thinking of a small safe, Hardnes 10 and HP 30.

Thanks!

[Thirdhorseman]

well, depending on the safe, it's probably a disable device check to get it open. if the safe is nonmagical and is no more than 10 pounds per caster level. Acid is unlikely to work as it does half damage to objects, and a safe is likely to have a very high hardness, which would reduce the damage further. you could simply bludgeon it open yes, but again, that depends on how strong the safe is.

Given the info you provided, I would say that a shatter spell is the easiest method if it is light enough, but if not, ten hardness and only thirty health is not that hard to get through in a couple rounds if you have high strength. but if you're trying to open it quietly, a disable device is your best option.

as for the time, shatter is a standard action, beating it open takes as long as it takes to break it, and depending on the quality of the lock, according to the disable device rules it takes anywhere from 1d4 to 2d4 rounds

hope that helps

[Lynos]

Thanks so much, it does help.
Regrettably, none of the PC's have Disable Device, which is a problem for me sometimes. (it's a 4-player party).
(As a side note, it's really tough when only one of the core characters can have Disable Device, but then so many modules utilize it as a check, not to mention it limits you very much as a GM in the use of traps and locked doors).

I have no idea how much a small iron safe should weigh. Probably 10 pounds? CL is 1.

The party does carry a Shatter scroll. So I was thinking this: they could use it on the mechanism of the lock instead of on the safe itself. The mechanism is less thick. It's a delicate thing, actually. Just direct the spell towards the lock and... damage it enough to it can open with a little force.

What do you think? Doable?

Of course they will have to think about it themselves... I should probably have a third option of overcoming this.

[tonyz]

Have three means in mind for the players to overcome any obstacle; rest assured that they will find a fourth you never thought of.

As far as opening a safe goes, knock or Disable Device are the classic methods for non-detectable entry.

Using acid to destroy the lock mechanism, a chisel or some kind of explosive or an adamantine weapon would all work to break into the safe, but it's pretty hard not to leave traces behind. I suppose you could cast make whole on the safe after wrecking it, though.

[Necroluth]

Lynos wrote:

(As a side note, it's really tough when only one of the core characters can have Disable Device, but then so many modules utilize it as a check, not to mention it limits you very much as a GM in the use of traps and locked doors).

We3ll, that's not entirely true. Any character can get Disable Device with skill points, they just might not be any good at it. As a Dex-based skill, someone in the party is likely to have a decent boost to it. The only thing that Disable Device requires a class feature to be effective is when disarming magical traps (or explosives, with the Technologist feat).

[RealAlchemy]

Rusting Grasp will work on a metal safe just fine.

[RealAlchemy]

Knock will do it.
Reduce person to get small, and then gaseous form to get inside.

[Martin Kauffman 530]

pet rust monster>

[mardaddy]

Not your fault if the party shows no forethought with investing ranks in a skill that they routinely require. Or they could hire on an NPC that does.

[Lynos]

tonyz wrote:

Using acid to destroy the lock mechanism, a chisel or some kind of explosive or an adamantine weapon would all work to break into the safe, but it's pretty hard not to leave traces behind. I suppose you could cast make whole on the safe after wrecking it, though.

Yeah, I guess "doing it dirty" will have to have reprecussions later on. Sadly they don't have a caster with a hight enough level to cast Make Whole.

Necroluth wrote:

We3ll, that's not entirely true. Any character can get Disable Device with skill points, they just might not be any good at it. As a Dex-based skill, someone in the party is likely to have a decent boost to it. The only thing that Disable Device requires a class feature to be effective is when disarming magical traps (or explosives, with the Technologist feat).

Crap! Why did I think "Untrained" means you can't do it at all?! I think I thought that that little star on the character sheet that says "trained only" meant you have to have it as a class skill in order to use it. I confused "trained" with "allowed".

It makes more sense now.
Yes, I am still learning the game...