Stealth charm spell save?

[TheApapalypse]

Would an NPC who is unaware of the pc's get a Wil save against charm/compulsion effects?: PCs are stealthed, the NPC is engaged in some activity requiring his attention, or otherwise not threatened nor in combat. Wizard cast charm person....seems to me that a Will save would require knowledge of the resisting party.

[Halek]

There is an faq saying you cant hide spellcasting do to mystic glowing runes. These are not mentioned in the book dont look for them. So the wizard might be found that way to.

And no will saves dont require knowledge of the other party. If the target was helpless thats a different story. The target gets his save.

[GM PDK]

Everything that is subject to a spell always get a saving throw. Even objects, who are not aware of the party at all. I mean, at all.

[Dasrak]

Saving throws do not require you to be aware of the source of the effect. You would get a save even if you were unconscious. There is no exception to Charm Person granting a save.

Halek wrote:

There is an faq saying you cant hide spellcasting do to mystic glowing runes

That's not what the FAQ says. It says that spells have visible manifestations, not that these manifestations cannot be hidden. There is no consensus currently on how spells manifestations can be hidden, and Paizo hasn't released a follow-up FAQ on the matter. I'm in the camp that spell manifestations have the same concealment as the character casting them, which would mean that if the character succeeds a stealth check (or is using invisibility) then their casting is also hidden.

Here is a link to the FAQ in question. It does not address stealth.

[Ring_of_Gyges]

I have vague memories of a debate about reflex saves for the unconscious. There was a large contingent that argued even people asleep got reflex saves since luck, divine favor, magical protection, and so on were part of the save.

Personally I don't allow reflex saves for the unconscious, but it is an example of how ingrained "Everyone gets a save" is.

[JoeElf]

You get Reflex saves in these various scenarios [including paralyzed/held] per the FAQ, so a Will save would be even more certain to apply to the unaware. Being unaware [flatfooted] on a Reflex save does not mean you lose your Dexterity bonus, so why would you lose your Wisdom bonus [or especially auto-fail!] a Will save in similar circumstances?

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9v29

Reflex Saves: If I’m paralyzed, held, dying, or otherwise completely immobilized or insensate, can I still attempt a Reflex save?
Yes, you can still attempt a Reflex save, but since your Dexterity is set to 0, you’ll have to replace your Dexterity bonus with a –5 penalty, so you’re not likely to succeed. If you do succeed, it might be due to the power of your cloak of resistance, a good angle for cover, or even luck...