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The group I belong to has been playing through the Wrath of the Righteous AP. I've read several reviews of this AP that complained the monsters weren't powerful enough to threaten the party - though of course none of the reviewers described what kind of party they had running through the adventure.
I'm always confused by this kind of review. Unless the whole AP is made up of fighting 2nd-level tiefling rogues and some goblins, I can't imagine the monsters being too weak to challenge most parties. Our party doesn't have a cleric or paladin. We'll always be limited in the amount of divine firepower we have available to us, and I foresee that being a major challenge for us. Instead of powering up the monsters to challenge us, the GM may have to de-power them or level us up faster so we'll be up to the challenge.
We're in the midst of the 2nd book, Sword of Valor, right now, and I know we're going to be meeting up with swarms of something nasty soon. Swarms terrify me. My wizard doesn't have any area-effect blasting spells. The only party member who does is the warpriest. I envision us being eviscerated by the swarm before we ever get to the big fights with demons and large monsters that are ahead of us. We're always more interested in roleplaying something fun than in optimizing for the adventure path we're playing.
The only time I've ever seen our group walk through an adventure was years ago in an AD&D game, when one of the elves used his 'detect secret doors' ability to find the treasure haul without us ever having to go into the dungeon. That was just an accident, not character optimization or bad rolls from the GM. Well, maybe a little bit of bad dungeon design.
Just how do you end up with a party that is too powerful for the adventure, anyway? Can anyone explain to me how that happens?
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APs are designed for 15pt buy party of 4. If you let them use higher point buy or allow more than 4, they will likely be too powerful for the adventure.
Ditto, APs are built on the expectation of 15 point buy, 4 characters, and a low to moderate level of optimization. I would also venture to say that they are also built expecting a low to moderate level of both splatbook/expanded rules, and also teamwork and tactics. And as my group has dedicated a long standing catchphrase around: "Teamwork is crazy OP."
Highly optimized characters can dish out solid damage or make dangerous attacks likely to take hold. An unchained monk with power attack can spend a ki point to make 3 attacks per round at level 1, each doing likely 1d6+4 (assuming str 14). While the attack bonus is perhaps only +2 from str (maybe +3 with Weapon Focus) he can flank for another +2, effectively doubling his bonus. With a flanking partner who can either trip or grapple the target, that bonus increases even further. A caster who is willing to spend a few buff spells can likewise drive it further up. A well built witch can make hexes nearly guaranteed, etc, etc. Combine them all together effectively and it gets crazy.
Granted, this group suffers some against mindless creatures, and large numbers can make things scary too. Which is acceptable to the group, because they are wonderful players and don't want to steamroll everything. But they are a arguably "poorly built" group, and not as optimized as they could be (although doing so would likely break versmilitude to character concepts and such).
So yeah, APs are built to be playable for players and characters that are "average", and that is absolutely not a bad thing. It means new players can get into some great material without having to do hours of homework perusing the vast amount of options. Core book and go, and all that. It does mean that more experienced players who have had the opportunity to learn the finer points of rules can push beyond those levels. Which is really then just a matter of the "agreement of expectations" between the GM and the players.
In WotR, the party becomes too powerful for the adventure as soon as anyone takes Mythic Power Attack or Mythic Vital Strike.
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Aps are built with the assumption your plaayers are braindead spending all feats on skill focus basket weaving.
A well built core archer figther is to much for aps to handle.
A core wizard can solo aps.
Sorcerors have a chance to do the same.
Core clerics can solo aps.
Core druids are hilariously good at soloing aps.
A well built core ranger can solo aps.
Bards need splatbooks to solo aps.
Rogues need splats to solo aps.
Monks need splats to not suck.
Barbarian needs splats to solo aps.
Heck you could probably build an adept that can solo aps.
They are built for a aparty of brain dead players who dont know how their characters work and need to be babysit to not die.
For your group you have a warpriest a wizard and probably 2 other martials if i had to guess. So that means it is your job to bring aoe spells. Fill that niche. Scrolls exist. Wands exist. You might have a familiar. Your doesnt need a cleric for "divine firepower" get some condition removal spells as scrolls and pick up dispel magic and break enchantment.
Why do you think divine firepower is a role?
I've seen a Beast Bonded Witch with a Fairy Dragon Pilferer familiar solo the first three books of Jade Regent.
I've seen a Master Summoner go through Curse of the Crimson Throne like everything was made of wet cardboard.
I've also seen a pretty well optimized party get continually pasted and only able to continue by GM fiat during Reign of Winter.
APs vary wildly in difficulty. If your group is prone to making powerful characters, pick the harder APs.
This is specific to Wrath of the Righteous.(And I nerfed Mythic power attack , banned mythic vital strike and a few other obvious gross things )
When 3 of the 4 pc's can each kill The Big Boss (twice) in a single round, the 4th being a dedicated Healer. She probably could have killed him in a single round. With 0 chance of failure.
PC's Dwarf Ranger, Aasimar Paladin, Elf Wizard, Human Oracle
He had 0 chance of significantly hurting them and his Balor Bodyguards could have been replaced by toddlers and they would have been more useful the pc's would have avoided treading on a toddler and so it may have affected their moves
Why
Mythic Rules are so <Expletive>broken that a drunk chimpanzee can design a character who can do 500hp a round at level 20
Wrath is is trivial to produce OP characters in. Other AP's my players are often too capable for the published bosses and their tactics because I am a generous gm and they are competent power gamers however I can in every other AP tweak things to create a challange. Not Wrath I gave The Big Boss 16000 hp and he died in 3 rounds without being a serious threat
Also up until early book 3 the power creep from mythic is not as noticable and it not totally out of control until book 5. Wizards are hurt a bit because mythic opponents almost always make saves and are largely immune to negative conditions, however Mythic Time stop is a total killer, as is limited Wish to punch a litany of righteousness into a demon before it eats a Paladin full attack , the record at level 20 was the Paladin going all out did over 2000hp damage in a round
We get it. The mythic book should be behind a pane of glass saying,"In case of likely TPK, break glass."
If you allow molotov cocktails, swarms should be no problem.