Str 7
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 20
Human
Trait: Heirloom Weapon:Fauchard
Trait: Find your Kin?
1 Swash 1: TWF, Swash Finesse (Fight sword/dagger) HBFeat:Combat Ref
2 Phalanx Fighter1: Weapon Focus: Fauchard, Spear Dancing Style
3 PF2: Dodge, Mobility,
4 PF3: Armor Training, Combat Patrol
5 Pal1: Weapon Versatility?
6:Pal2: Divine Grace OR Oath Against Savagery
7???? SWash 2?
Idea: Fight Sword/Dagger Level 1.
At level 4, can fight with a buckler and treat the fauchard as 1 hnd weapon, applying dex instead of strength. Agile weapon allow dex instead of Str to dmg.
Level 5: Can use Spear Dancing style to treat it as Piercing & Light mace. Keen on the weapon would allow panache to be recharged. Weapon versatility would allow panache to be recharged on mace crits. Making the threat range 15-20 on the 1 handed fauchard and 17-20 on the off hand weapon.
Level 6 would either boost reach for combat patrol, or add charisma to saves (probably choosing that).
This would make saves at level 6: F:13 R:11 W:10;
With Swash 2, he could reroll saves with Charmed life...
HP - a little low, but would have the ability to swift lay on hands a ton.
Reach would obviously be beneficial. Ideas?
Weapon Versatility: Recharges on the mace off hand, and helps bypass DR. Is it worthwhile?
Future Feats: Continue the ITWF, GTWF? Fey Foundling? Osyluth Guile?(Charisma to AC)
Probably continue Paladin thereafter?
PFS legal, pls.
Watch encumbrance, human w/Str 7, a fauchard and a buckler gives you no room for error, assuming that you want to stay in light encumbrance.
You have 2 skills per level after 1st, 3 if you spend the FCB there which you probably won't. Not that you will have a lot of favored class bonuses to spend. With no magic or non-combat feats you won't be doing much out of combat, make sure you're OK with that.
A keen (piercing or slashing) light mace has a 19-20 crit range. Can you afford a +1 keen agile fauchard (18K) at 5th level?
Fey Foundling is first level only. Your other options there for future feats aren't bad, but if you take another level in fighter weapon specialization is possible. Also (with or without that level) Advanced Armor Training for Armored Sacrifice is worth considering. IMO. Lunge for reach could work then too.
What level does this start at? You say PFS legal, but hopefully you mean 'home game where we start at a high level, but we use PFS rules just cause'.
....because this seems... painful. Very very painful. It may or may not be nice on paper... but in actual play, this seems like it would take a long time to... do anything really. You already have to abandon the central idea of the build (a reach build) until level 4 it seems.
You also don't actually have any real damage until you get an agile weapon (You mention it at level 4, but just going by average wealth by level, you can only barely guy that at level 5- and pretty much nothing else).
So, are you starting off at high levels, where you skipped over all of these concerns? Because, if you are playing from level 1... you are going to have a baaaaad time, for a long time.
Great Comments.
I'm ok with painful builds; I'm ok with few skills, (last character: skill monkey), and I'm Ok with tight encumbrance (Sauce for the goose.).
I've shoe-horned a lot into a few levels - I'm curious if its worth it?
Essentially:
1. I'm using three feats to shoe horn in: Combat Patrol. But I don't have real reach expanders; so I will have to rely at present on a future Lunge or buffing (enlarge) via umd. Is it worth it?
2. I'm using two feats (versatile weaponry) and (spear dancing style) to use the Fauchard as a double weapon, losing the reach feature. This effectively loses some of the crit range, but allows me to still attack when an opponent slips under reach. Should I ditch the concept and rely on swashbucklers ability to move 5 feet after an attack?
3. Yes, I won't be able to afford Keen + Agile at 5. Which is better first? If I ditch one of the previous options (combat patrol / spear dancing) I could concentrate more on raising damage (what feats?) Alternately I could take Improved critical.
4. AVR: Advanced armor training: I was considering a Sash of the War Champion F3+4, for the armor sacrifice.
5. Fey foundling could be taken at L1, in place of Combat reflexes, which would push Combat reflexes back to probably 5, bumping weapon versatility to 7..?
6. As Lemeres noted - I won't be doing all that much *damage*.
7. I expect to complete the first couple of levels by GM credit.
8. I'm inclined to go PF4 and Swash 2. Which means I would end at PF4 Swash 2 Pal 5
I think I'm inclined to ditch the spear dancing style? What would best increase damage and / or reach?
What level does this start at? You say PFS legal, but hopefully you mean 'home game where we start at a high level, but we use PFS rules just cause'.
I suspect it is for PFS because that's a 20pt array.
...Staving off that horrible will-save in PFS until 6th will be excruciating if not downright impossible. Not to mention he's a martial that can't carry his own equipment. Has neither Combat Reflexes or Power Attack, both of which are crucial feats for a polearm build. Two skills per level (assuming human) means most checks fail. Acrobatics is about the only thing I can see the character excelling at.
Aside from eventually getting paladin smite and spells, the character starts WAY behind a vanilla barbarian-dip fighter (with CR and PA at 1st level), and spends the rest of his career struggling in vain to catch up.
Vanilla barbarian will even be better at archery throwing or shooting multiple d6/8+10 or so versus a single crossbow plink from the STR7 build.
Oh, and heirloom weapon only applies to a *single* weapon (not type of weapon); if you ever lose it, you lose the proficiency to fauchard.
Try this:
str 12
dex 16
con 14
int 12
wis 07
cha 17
...as a halfling paladin with a polearm and Combat Reflexes at 1st level for four AoOs per round. Mix in two levels of unchained rogue, and buy a wand of Long Arm.
Ride around on your dog jabbing things with a lance for double-damage.
Increase charisma exclusively, and buy a strength belt to allow Power Attack around 5th.
Staving off that horrible will-save until 6th will be excruciating. Not to mention he's a martial that can't carry his own equipment. Has neither Combat Reflexes or Power Attack, both of which are crucial feats for a polearm build. Two skills per level (assuming human) means most checks fail. Acrobatics is about the only thing I can see the character excelling at.
Aside from eventually getting paladin smite and spells, the character starts WAY behind a vanilla barbarian-dip fighter (with CR and PA at 1st level), and spends the rest of his career struggling in vain to catch up.
Vanilla barbarian will even be better at archery throwing or shooting multiple d6/8+10 or so versus a single crossbow plink from the STR7 build.
He does have combat reflexes- level 1. He abbreviated it.
I am not going to disagree with the rest of your analysis. Any of these classes could patch up a dex focused polearm build... but taken together like this... He isn't benefiting from any of them really.
Fighters have weapon training/combat expertise. Swashbucklers have precise strike. Paladins have smite. But those require a few levels in and/or scale with your level in the class.
6. As Lemeres noted - I won't be doing all that much *damage*.
...then what do you *do*?
Are you focusing on combat patrol? I guess there is some value in shutting down certain actions (such as casting)... but this means you mostly just stand there waiting to get one attack in.
But even then, you still have to deal with the heart of a reach build- you need enemies to FEAR your AoOs. This can be done with damage, or with maneuvers (trip is common). If all you have is a very mild smack... then enemies won't fear it much.
Sidenote- your first priority is agile. Because you have all of no damage before that, since you are not apply your stat to damage (heck, you have a damage penalty). ...actually, can you even get an agile fauchard? You find ways around to apply weapon finesse, but the weapon itself is not a finesse weapon. So is it even legal to put agile on them?
You would want to grab some different feat in order to get dex to damage with a polearm. Blade brush seems like the main candidate.
If a 1st-level human with WIS7, he fails 75% versus Colorspray or Charm from a 1st-level mook caster with only an INT12, and it'll get steadily worse until he picks up money for specific pieces of equipment.
Despite having identical wisdom scores, a halfling paladin built as I describe has a will save of +5 at 2nd level, or 7 higher than the OP's -2. (He's also +5 stronger and +5 smarter than the human! Thus are the point-buy synergies of picking a race which advances the stats you want highest.)
Thanks, scott.
Yes, buckler leaves a hand unoccupied, a retirement for some of the swashbuckler abilities.
So amusingly, one could (changing stats etc) do a similar magus build. That said, I probably will forgo those abilities and go with a heavier shield.
Dodge & mobility are requirements for combat patrol.
Shield brace,iirc requires one additional feat iirc. I'll look at it, but I lean to phalanx, as I need feats.
Concept is caster bodyguard. Stop the bad guys from getting to your casters. Dodging panache Should stop me from getting hit with many full attacks, and double charisma to ac sounds ... sweet.
Future Feats: Continue the ITWF, GTWF? Fey Foundling? Osyluth Guile?(Charisma to AC)
Probably continue Paladin thereafter?
PFS legal, pls.
Fey Founding can only be taken at 1st level.
You need to get your attributes straight before anything else, because you cannot survive in PFS with a wisdom of 7 as anything but a high-charisma paladin (with the character using its free rebuild upon leveling at 2nd in PFS. I.e., play a decent-wis barbarian through first, then rebuild at 2nd).
IMO this fauchard is not going to have enough successful crits per round in order to replenish the swashbuckler's panache, and aside from a smite here and there after 6th, the only thing the paladin is doing is giving you your will save back (but the OP stat'ed character is likely dead or retired by 3rd or 4th anyway).
Try this (if you aren't interested in the halfling):
traits: dangerously curious, berserker of the society
1 paladin, Fey Foundling, Power Attack
2 paladin (will save huge jump with Divine Grace)
3 paladin Greater Mercy
4 bloodrager (raise strength and buy a belt)
5 paladin, Extra Rage
15>17 in STR, 14s in CON, CHA, and DEX, 12 in INT, and 7 wisdom.
Ditch the fauchard and take the next-best threat-range d10 polearm. Don't waste your time tripping because monsters start getting really big by the mid-levels, and you will not have the feats to keep ahead them unless lot of fighter levels. Brace property polearms can save your butt when charged by a pounce-monster.
Human gets 4 skills per paladin level, and pumps Use Magic Device.
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For a caster bodyguard I always liked a tower shield specialist. Bodyguard line of feats followed by whip feats. Possibly switching to wildchild brawler around level 5 to use an animal companion (boon companion) for a second bodyguard. Admittibily very different than your build.
There are builds that use dorn derga master to achieve a similar idea. These would work with combat patrol and a shield.
Just a warning there are a lot of fights about changing weapon types, verses counts as, or can be wield as. The logic is, it does not change the weapon type so it does not allow feat and class levels universally.
As a one handed weapon =/= is a one handed weapon.
I don't know the right answer but I would expect some debate in pfs over the legality.
Sorry I don't have more proactive helpful thoughts.
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There's zero question that by the actual rules you can't put Agile on a fauchard, as it's not a finessable weapon. Simply switching to the Elven branched spear solves at least that issue.
Two levels of Brawler and Spear Dancing Spiral allows you to Brawler's Flurry with a polearm in two hands without using it as a double weapon and losing reach. Combined with Elven branched spear, it's perfect for Agile reach - no double-enhancement controversy. Taking Improved Two-Weapon Fighting manually works with Brawler's Flurry, so you only ever need Brawler 2. With Brawler 2 granting free TWF and a free bonus feat (and probably also a swing feat) it's easy to do.
Shield Brace isn't PFS legal, as far as I know.
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Shield Brace isn't PFS legal, as far as I know.
It is, but with the following clarifications.
When using the Shield Brace feat, treat the polearm or spear as a one-handed weapon. More specifically, when calculating the damage the weapon deals, it uses your Strength bonus instead of 1.5 times your Strength bonus, and it counts as a one- handed weapon when determining extra damage from the Power Attack feat. You may use Two- Weapon Fighting and other feats as if the polearm were a one handed weapon.
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Str 7
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 20Human
Trait: Heirloom Weapon:Fauchard
Trait: Find your Kin?1 Swash 1: TWF, Swash Finesse (Fight sword/dagger) HBFeat:Combat Ref
2 Phalanx Fighter1: Weapon Focus: Fauchard, Spear Dancing Style
3 PF2: Dodge, Mobility,
4 PF3: Armor Training, Combat Patrol
5 Pal1: Weapon Versatility?
6:Pal2: Divine Grace OR Oath Against Savagery
7???? SWash 2?Idea: Fight Sword/Dagger Level 1.
At level 4, can fight with a buckler and treat the fauchard as 1 hnd weapon, applying dex instead of strength. Agile weapon allow dex instead of Str to dmg.
Level 5: Can use Spear Dancing style to treat it as Piercing & Light mace. Keen on the weapon would allow panache to be recharged. Weapon versatility would allow panache to be recharged on mace crits. Making the threat range 15-20 on the 1 handed fauchard and 17-20 on the off hand weapon.
Level 6 would either boost reach for combat patrol, or add charisma to saves (probably choosing that).
This would make saves at level 6: F:13 R:11 W:10;
With Swash 2, he could reroll saves with Charmed life...
HP - a little low, but would have the ability to swift lay on hands a ton.Reach would obviously be beneficial. Ideas?
Weapon Versatility: Recharges on the mace off hand, and helps bypass DR. Is it worthwhile?Future Feats: Continue the ITWF, GTWF? Fey Foundling? Osyluth Guile?(Charisma to AC)
Probably continue Paladin thereafter?
PFS legal, pls.
.
Don't give yourself 3 7's, even if it is for pfs.
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Shield Brace isn't PFS legal, as far as I know.It is, but with the following clarifications.
When using the Shield Brace feat, treat the polearm or spear as a one-handed weapon. More specifically, when calculating the damage the weapon deals, it uses your Strength bonus instead of 1.5 times your Strength bonus, and it counts as a one- handed weapon when determining extra damage from the Power Attack feat. You may use Two- Weapon Fighting and other feats as if the polearm were a one handed weapon.
Oh, well that's nice then. Includes the 'treat as one handed' language as well. Bully.
In fact, wouldn't that then let a character Shield Brace with a light shield while holding a Swordmaster's Flair: Blue Scarf? Hmm...
Thanks for the feedback.
The bottom line is that to use a 2h reach weapon requires two weapon grace, at least with a swashbuckler. You can then get dex to damage with your primary hand.
However, to get 1/2 dex to damage with your off hand applies an additional -2 to all attacks.
It very much looks as if this tax essentially would allow a Swashbuckler to use a large shield (via shield brace); or fight with a hand occupied; or get offhand attacks at significant penalty.
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It boils down to this: Do you want to pay Paizo's severe feat tax curve in order to dex-damage with a polearm (but still need to keep your strength up enough for Power Attack let alone carrying your junk), or do you want to pay zero feats, enjoy 50% more damage from both the attack attribute and Power Attack, using the same polearm with strength while also maintaining a dexterity score that isn't necessarily that bad (because you need it to fuel Combat Reflexes, among other things)?
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Swashbuckler whip and combat patrol is the closest functional build to this. It may benifit from switching to fighter for more feats and weapon training sooner rather than later.
Swordmaster’s Flair can further extend reach.
The only characters that can stack reach on a Dex build are alchemist and investigators. Longarm, fluid form, swordmasters, lunge but feats tent to be tight on these builds.
Most reach builds can be converted to DEX just by using an Agile branched spear. The damage difference is negligible for any decent build, and with two-handed Power Attack the build isn't totally Agile dependant. If you want to guarantee having an Agile weapon, create a build with Arcane Bond so that you can make it yourself and restore it if lost/destroyed. Eldritch Heritage: Arcane Bloodline grants that with feats.
Again, two levels of Brawler and Spear Dancing Spiral is the ideal way to use TWF with a reach weapon, since it opens up TWF with one weapon. I don't think anything prevents using Shield Brace with Brawler's Flurry. A Brawler 2/ Weapon Master Fighter could work strong Trained Grace instead of needing DEX to damage.