For the Party That Has Everything?

[Odsox]

I say everything; unfortunately my party members haven't really been able to elaborate on their characters' actual characters as yet, so I'm struggling to come up with something that fits the party.

Also hello.

I'm joining a Shattered Star campaign soon. The group finished Book Two about a year ago, and they're going back into it soon, but they've invited myself and another new player along to replenish the group numbers.

So far, the group has confirmed the existence of the following in their party:

Original members:

* A Catfolk Monk who hates water - that is literally all the useful information I have on that character despite repeated attempts to have it fleshed out.
* A Dwarven Cleric of Brigh, casting-focused and heal-heavy, quite aggressive. That's it so far.
* A Human Arcanist who favours lots of fire spells and lots of line-based spells. Again, all I have on that.

New members:

* A Vanara Scout/Knife Master aimed at maximising sneak damage. Lots of magical gear, plays like a classic trickster.

* Whatever I can come up with...

The GM has recommended I don't bother with a Ranger or Druid due to the amount of dungeon crawling and variable monsters, and says the group already has plenty of Thassilonian-oriented skills and tricks so I don't need to worry about that. From my point of view, the group lacks a trapfinding bod, a dedicated face or charisma-focused bod, a tanky bod and a dedicated ranged DPS bod.

If anyone has any advice regarding a fun build that might shore up some gaps in the group, I am open to suggestions!

Available Books: Core Rulebook, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, Occult Adventures, Advanced Race Guide, Advanced Class Guide.

We are Level 8 with the appropriate starting cash, so I've got buckets of wiggle room.

So far I keep bouncing between the following basic chassis;

Grippli Swashbuckler
Tiefling Wizard (Conjuration)
Halfling Bard
Half-Elf Summoner
Human Bolt Ace

Any advice, information, critiques, comments or gentle admonitions are welcome!

Thanks for your time,

Richard

[Razoack]

On the ranged / face front, I would suggest a Warpriest, they generally excel at Ranged combat. Maybe a Rougarou? It could lead to some fun conversations in your party between you and the catfolk monk.

I would generally not take another 9th level caster here.

From your chassis' that you have provided, I would lean towards the bard.

[the Queen's Raven]

Archaeologist bard would get you trap-finding, face skills, and some good self buffs from the archaeologist luck.

[Odsox]

Ah, it seems like I am destined to play a bard. I've been putting it off for ages... Mind you I had REAL fun playing a half-orc Skald for that one game...

Thanks for the mention of the Rougarou Razoack, but I can't see that in my HeroLab lineup. I don't think Bestiary 6 was included in the ARG. :s Shame, I could definitely play a dog-person. I think you're right about not taking another full caster as well; for a start the Arcanist apparently "doesn't play like an Arcanist" *shrug* and I would play the arrogant wizard role to the hilt, so it might be something of a poke in the eye for the other player, which is not something anyone wants.

Straight bard would be my ideal, or Sandman, but I think you're right, Queen's Raven; Archeologist is going to be the one. Nice flavour, very useful skills, very much a face, if a bit bookish... I think I can make this work!

Thanks for your help! Now I need to pick a race. Changeling, Ratfolk and Kitsune are looking favourite. I won't pick a gnome, despite their obvious strengths, because the Cleric player previously played as a gnome archeologist and the last thing I want is for him to think I'm copying his style.

Thanks again!

Od.

[Spacelard]

I'd absolutely recommend an Urban Ranger.
Favoured enemy Human, Aberrations and Constructs great choices.

[Thunderlord]

If you're not married to the bard idea i think a paladin could beef up your frontline and cover the party face

[DeathlessOne]

I'd say play a Druid anyway. Well, a Nature Fang Druid. You can pick up trapfinding with a talent, spec out for melee combat, and make your druid spells useful as buffs, and the emergency summon nature's ally when needed.

I played one in Giant Slayer and ... it was glorious.

Anyway, your sneak attacker is going to need a flanking buddy, ideally one that can get and keep the enemies attention. The monk ... is not going to do that. You also get sneak attack (one measely dice, but you can take accomplished sneak attacker, and/or the Crocodile domain, to flesh this out) and will benefit from coordinating with the rogue.

But, if you want to go bard ... enjoy.

[Pounce]

Thunderlord wrote:

If you're not married to the bard idea i think a paladin could beef up your frontline and cover the party face

Alternatively, you could even go for a hybrid: Paladin with bardic performance. It's pretty interesting.

[Thunderlord]

Pounce wrote:

Thunderlord wrote:

If you're not married to the bard idea i think a paladin could beef up your frontline and cover the party face

Alternatively, you could even go for a hybrid: Paladin with bardic performance. It's pretty interesting.

Wow nice catch. I personally love the vanilla paladin so I never really looked at the archetypes but this hybrid looks great for the face paladin.

[DeathlessOne]

Thunderlord wrote:

Wow nice catch. I personally love the vanilla paladin so I never really looked at the archetypes but this hybrid looks great for the face paladin.

If you can stomach giving up Smite Evil, or smiting evil won't be used very often in your game, it is an option.

[Jurassic Pratt]

Pounce wrote:

Thunderlord wrote:

If you're not married to the bard idea i think a paladin could beef up your frontline and cover the party face

Alternatively, you could even go for a hybrid: Paladin with bardic performance. It's pretty interesting.

Unfortunately it appears he's limited to using certain books and Divine Anthology is not one of them.

[SmiloDan]

It sounds like you could use either an archer or a tank that can wide into battle and be a flank buddy for the rogue and monk.

Or play a hunter and do both! You can stay back and shoot and have your animal companion do melee. You would also be bringing into play druid and ranger spells without being a druid or ranger.

What level are you starting at?

[Slim Jim]

Quote:

The GM has recommended I don't bother with a Ranger or Druid due to the amount of dungeon crawling...

That implies opportunities for facetime won't be particularly numerous, either. (My assumption is that the cleric also has some ranks in diplomacy and isn't CHA5, or if he is, the party isn't feeling an acute lack.)

...magus?

[SanderJK]

The options are many. Warpriest archers are very strong, in part because a prepared archer can deal with most enemy types equally (cheap special material / ghost salt arrows). It's definitely up there as a flexible high dps with good utility.

If you are ok with playing support, you could be a Detective Bard (for the very high perception/trapfinding) and just open every fight with haste. Your melee with love it, the cleric can always get position, and your arcanist can start lobbing damage right away. Starting at 8 you could open with Dirge of Doom and find some other source of shaken as a standard action. This may be too strong against anyone not immune against it you may be asked to stop though.....

You could go for combat control too. A witch or shaman can ruin many opponents lives. Lowering an opponents ac or saves by 4 (more if you go halfling jinx) turns tides. And any class with heal spells on their list are very handy.

Hunters are fun and if build well quite strong, but animal companions all clog more melee space, and take up a lot of time.

Conjuration wizards are very strong, though a big part of that is glitterdust. No SR on many of the conjuration debuff spells matters a lot at 8+. If you want to summon, be a summoner. They're better at it, and by level 8 the Eidolon is pretty cool.

I saw a bolt-ace in action, it seemed competitive with other archery builds.

[SmiloDan]

Yeah, in a party of 4 or more, if you have a combat pet, I suggest giving it 1 big attack instead of going the Cuisinart of death route. It might not be "optimal" but it reduces the amount of time it takes to take your turn. And of course, make your pet its own fully-fleshed out character sheet.

[Ventnor]

Trapfinding, face, tanky, and ranged? Well, if you want a character that can do all that, I’d recommend looking at the Slayer from the Advanced Class Guide.

[Odsox]

Wow! Quite a few suggestions since I last dropped in!

Well, I became quite fixated upon the idea of a kitsune archaeologist in the meantime, so in light of all this good advice, does this look like the ravings of a total moron? Sans equipment, so tips there are appreciated too! I have gone rather heavy on the Swift/Immediate action options, I fear, but I think it looks like a fun roleplaying basis:

Bastian Salvatore
Male kitsune bard (archaeologist) 7/swashbuckler 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 56, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 4 175, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat 32)
CG Medium humanoid (kitsune, shapechanger)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +15 (+19 to hear conversation or find concealed object)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 62 (8 HD; 7d8+1d10+15)
Fort +3, Ref +10, Will +6
Defensive Abilities evasion, improved uncanny dodge, trap sense +2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee bite +9 (1d4)
Special Attacks archaeologist's luck 10 rounds/day (+2), deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 8th; concentration +14)
3/day—dancing lights
Bard (Archaeologist) Spells Known (CL 7th; concentration +13)
3rd (2/day)—glibness, invisibility sphere
2nd (5/day)—allegro[UM], anonymous interaction[ACG] (DC 19), create treasure map[APG], hold person (DC 19)
1st (6/day)—grease, heightened awareness[ACG], identify, timely inspiration[APG] (DC 17), unseen servant
0 (at will)—detect magic, know direction, mage hand, mending, open/close (DC 16), prestidigitation
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 22
Base Atk +6; CMB +6; CMD 19
Feats Battle Cry (acg)[ACG], Extra Rogue Talent[APG], Lingering Performance[APG], Twist Away[ACG]
Traits - custom trait -, vagabond child (urban)
Skills Acrobatics +14, Appraise +7, Bluff +10, Climb +4, Craft (mapmaking) +5, Diplomacy +10, Disable Device +11, Disguise +10, Escape Artist +10, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (arcana) +12, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +13, Knowledge (engineering) +12, Knowledge (geography) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +10, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Knowledge (religion) +10, Linguistics +8, Perception +15 (+19 to hear conversation or find concealed object), Profession (astronomer) +5, Sense Motive +9, Sleight of Hand +7, Spellcraft +10, Stealth +14, Survival +2, Swim +4, Use Magic Device +15; Racial Modifiers +2 Acrobatics
Languages Ancient Osiriani, Azlanti, Common, Sylvan, Thassilonian, Undercommon, Varisian
SQ bardic knowledge +3, change shape, clever explorer +3, kitsune magic, lore master 1/day, rogue talents (canny observer[APG], fast stealth), swashbuckler finesse
Other Gear 33,000 gp
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Special Abilities
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Archaeologist's Luck +2 (10 rounds/day) (Ex) Gain Luck bonus to attack, damage, saves, and all skills.
Bardic Knowledge +3 (Ex) Add +3 to all knowledge skill checks.
Battle Cry (ACG, 6/day) Allies within 30' gain +1 mor bon to atk and +4 mor bon to saves vs. fear for 1 min.
Canny Observer (Ex) +4 Perception to overhear conversations or find concealed or secret objects.
Change Shape (Su) Assume a single human form.
Clever Explorer +3 (take 10 & magic traps) (Ex) Half time to use disable device. Can always take 10 & disarm magic traps.
Deeds
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fast Stealth (Ex) Move at full speed while using the Stealth skill at no penalty.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Lv >= 12) (Ex) Retain DEX bonus to AC when flat-footed. You cannot be flanked unless the attacker is Level 12+.
Kitsune Magic Kitsune add 1 to the DCs of any saving throws to resist enchantment spells that they cast.
Lingering Performance Bardic Performances last 2 rds after you stop concentrating.
Lore Master (1/day) (Ex) Can take 10 on any trained knowledge checks. Activate to take 20 as a standard action.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Swashbuckler Finesse Use Dex for att with light/1-hand pierce wep. Use Cha instead of Int for combat feat pre-reqs.
Trap Sense +2 (Ex) +2 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
Twist Away When in light or no armor, may make Ref save instead of Fort, if red eff, avoid entirely.

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[Odsox]

Ah, I should probably point out that my custom trait is Fate's Favored - simply because I don't have the relative book, but the GM is quite happy for us to take what we need as it turns out he has ALL the books. the main reason I stick to what I've got is because I make extensive use of HeroLab.

Thanks for your time,

Od.