Can you delay taking an archetype?


Rules Questions


So could you say be a rogue 3 then switch for all future levels to say master of disguise (rogue archetype) or does all your prior levels automatically convert to the archetype? And then what happens if say you get something as MoD lv 2....would you acquire it at total level 5 in this case?


Archetypes have to be taken at level 1.

Shadow Lodge

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You have to decide before the archetype actually impacts anything.

For example, the Elemental Kin Barbarian Archetype doesn't impact anything until level 3, so you don't need to offically 'choose' it until that point.

Master of Disguise, on the other hand, impacts your character right away (Trapfinding is replaced) so you need to take it when you take your first level in rogue.

You can't just take 'part' of an archetype, nor can you take an archetype after it would already would have impacted something without retraining or your GM's blessing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

@Taja: I have read this before, but I can't find the source for this ruling regarding taking an archetype as soon as it affects things. Do you happen to have a link to the source?

Scarab Sages

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turtle006 wrote:
Archetypes have to be taken at level 1.

This


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You must decide to take an archetype before it would replace, change, or modify any part of the class.

So if an archetype didn't affect any abilities of the base class until level 3, you could wait until level 3. If you didn't take it at level 3 you would not be allowed to take the archetype at all.

You are not allowed to have some levels modified by an archetype and some not. If you take an archetype it affects all levels in that class.


The retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign do allow you to gain or lose an archetype after it would have applied.

It takes 5 days per class feature added, subtracted, or replaced.

It's still all or none on which levels get modified, though.


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Ultimate campaign, retraining section, archetype, toward the end:

"Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype."


Archetypes must be chosen when taking the 1st level in the class.

Page 72 APG:
When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here.


Pink Dragon, see Java Man's post and my post as well.

You don't have to choose until your class is at a level where the archetype would modify something.


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In fairness, as someone that doesn't have Ultimate Campaign I was also going to reference the APG until I saw Javaman's post. :-)


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I will add, also in all fairness, why would you check the retraining rules for this question anyway? It is a bit of an odd place for an answer.


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Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Java Man wrote:
I will add, also in all fairness, why would you check the retraining rules for this question anyway? It is a bit of an odd place for an answer.

That's easy. The original rules say that you need to choose your archetype at 1st level -- but you didn't do that, and now you want to take that archetype. Retraining would thus be the only way to do that.

So you look up the retraining rules in Ultimate Campaign and discover that retraining into an archetype that has no effect at or before your current level is basically free, requiring no expenditure of time or money.


Sounds so logical when explained logicly...


Java Man wrote:

Ultimate campaign, retraining section, archetype, toward the end:

"Note that you don't have to use the retraining rules to take an archetype if your class level is low enough that the archetype doesn't modify any of your current class abilities. For example, if you're a 1st-level fighter who wants the archer archetype, that archetype doesn't replace any class abilities until fighter level 2, so you don't need to use the retraining rules at all—once you reach 2nd level, you can just decide to take the archer archetype."

Thank you! You have taught me something new. :)


Is this also the case in organized PFS play?

Do you have to wait to get the archetype until the specific time it actually modifies the class ability or can you simply adopt it at level 1?


There is nothing stopping you from adopting an archtype at level 1. In fact the APG rules are still there - you must adopt an archtype at level 1. The only reason the retraining rules are like that is for clarity.
Effectively adopting an archetype after level 1 is retraining. Ultimate Campaign accepts though that if you aren't changing anything it doesn't cost anything to retrain in either time gold or prestige.


Thanks dragonhunterq, just for clarity-as far as multiclassing, that is for class level or character level?
If you are a level 2 Brawler 1/Alchemist 1 then adopting a Brawler archetype counts as a level 1 "adoption" of archetype...

While we are here I may as well go the full journey-

I have a Level 2-Brawler 1(no archetype)/Alchemist 1(chirurgeon/wasteland blighter)
Would I be able to :

1. Adopt an archetype for the Brawler at its level 1 class level
2. Adopt "Sacramental Alchemist" on top of chirurgeon/wasteland Blighter since all 3 archetypes legally stack and give up the mutagen class feature for that archetype

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Page 8, Ultimate Intrigue
"When a character takes levels in a class, he must decide to take the standard class features, or those presented by an archetype. Each archetype replaces specific class features from the parent class, and the choice to take an archetype does not need to be made until the first level that includes a class feature that is altered or replaced."


As far as archetypes and multiclassing are concerned treat each class independently. Character level is irrelevant.

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