Oracle of Time build


Advice

Sovereign Court

Hello, friendly brain trust! I'm building out a concept that I am having trouble reconciling. Hoping to get some help.

I'd like to build a time oracle. Combat role is a buffer/debuffer, role play as a seer and fortune teller. Below is what I have so far

Rules:
Feat Tax eliminated (don't remember source off the top of my head)
Background Skills
25 point buy

Level 3 Oracle of Time
Race: Gnome
Alignment: True Neutral
Religion: Shyka

Attributes:
STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 13
INT: 11
WIS: 14
CHA: 19

AC: 20, T-13, F-18
Init: -2
BAB: +2
CMB: +3
CMD: 12, F-10

Mystery: Time
Curse: Deaf
Revelations: Erase from Time, Aging Touch, Time Flicker

Feats:
Agile Maneuvers (Feat Tax Rule)
Combat Expertise (Feat Tax Rule)
Deadly Aim (Feat Tax Rule)
Extra Revelation
Power Attack (Feat Tax Rule)
Prophetic Visionary
Silent Spell (Curse)

Traits:
Desert Child
Sacred Touch

Weapons:
Light Crossbow
Gnome Hooked Hammer

Armor:
Mwk Agile Breastplate
Buckler

Magic Gear:
3x Potion of Sanctuary
2x Potion of Shield of Faith
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (25 charges)
Wand of Lesser Restoration (20 charges)

Misc gear is what you'd expect, plus a Harrow Deck

Spells:
0 - Create Water, Detect Magic, Guidance, Resistance, Stabilize
1 - Cure Light Wounds, Memory Lapse, Sanctuary, Doom

I'm iffy on the spell selection, progression of spells, and weapons/alternatives to spellcasting in battle. Overall concept is one that is gifted with the manipulation of time and space. Eventually will have Haste/Slow, Hold spells, etc. Some of the special abilities require melee touch, which means I have to have a high enough AC to not die miserably up close.

Help? :)

Sovereign Court

Anyone?


I would do the attributes a bit different.

Attributes:
STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 14
CHA: 18

Deaf seems like a brutal curse.


Actually, since you're a gnome, i do the attribute this way:

Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 19

The 19 charisma is good, even if it's costly. I can't see any good mechanical reason for having a 11 intelligence instead of a 10, it's a wasted point. I also tend to favorise high constitution on caster, they tend to have bad fortitude and hit point, so you could be taking advantage of being a gnome, putting a 14 in con, before racial bonus, which bring it to 16. That's solid, you also don't need Wisdom that much, you already got high will save.


I don't disagree with Joric. However, I was trying to do as little adjustment on his attributes as possible as I'm not 100% sure what he's trying to do.

If it was my character I would probably go with this:

Str: 11
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 12
Wis: 10
Cha: 18

Cause sometimes you have to lift s%++ up...or climb or swim.


Spells:

Doom is a pretty mediocre level 1 spell. Cause Fear is a much better replacement. Cause Fear gives you a minimum of 1 round of shaken even on a successful save and it also gives the opportunity to cause a foe to give AOOs to your allies on a failed save. Command gives more options and lasts longer, and would be a good option to switch Cause Fear into when you hit level 4.

You have no buffing spells yet (you wanted to be a buffer). Bless is a good one. Shield of Faith is another. You can get these via scrolls or wands and still retain your current spell selections.

Sanctuary as a spell is good when you are a credible threat. Alas, until then, casting Sanctuary is nearly a wasted action without it. I'd drop that for a buffing spell. Shield of Faith will be useful for nigh your career while Bless is good now and for the next couple of levels.

Combat (In)Actions:

You have just about zero in combat actions except to heal people and 1 round of Erase From Time. You could use more options. The below are suggestions to increase in combat options.

Alchemist Fire and Acid Flasks are decent damage for level 3. You should be decent to hit with +4 against a Touch AC.

A wand of Sound Burst (or Burst of Radiance) instead of the Wand of Lesser Restoration would eliminate a lot of combat inaction troubles up to and thru level 4. If you have the option to change that wand out yet, I think it would be a more fun option for you.

A wand of Bless would really help your combat buffing to start.

Load up on a few scrolls as soon as you can. Scrolls of Bless, Shield of Faith, Cause Fear, Obscuring Mist, Magic Weapon, Comprehend Languages, etc. give you options and unpredictability.

Sovereign Court

Thanks guys! Just a few clarifications.

Ultimately the goal is to focus on things that have to do with time, time displacement, divination, and so forth. Even if not mechanically superior, I want to stay as close to flavor as I can on that point. Alot of the revelations that appeal to me are debuffs to enemies, placing them out of time or causing them to age etc.

I'll definitely play around with the stats as suggested, I'll see which is better. I put the 11 into Int cause I don't like having all even numbers. lol. I should probably just get over that one.

I was under the impression that some of the revelations required higher Wis to up their DC's, but I may have misread. I'll have to look.

This character is still in planning so I can swap out equipment and spells however I need to.

I'll definitely swap out Doom for Cause Fear, as the flavor of both spells is relatively the same, but your suggestion as to it's functionality are valid. Thanks!

I went with Sanctuary cause it can be cast on allies as a rescue button. Ultimately, I would like to focus on debuffs, but early game save DC's for enemies are always a little on the high side, so save or suck doesn't seem to work so well until higher level. I could be wrong, I mean my starting Cha seems pretty high. Plus the early game debuffs don't really seem to fit flavor, but I may be overly married to the concept and just need to get over it.

I picked Deaf because silent spelling for free seemed like a pretty good benefit. I considered blind, but it seemed more detrimental. Is there any in particular you would go with that tends to go better?

Sovereign Court

Rory wrote:

Spells:

Doom is a pretty mediocre level 1 spell. Cause Fear is a much better replacement. Cause Fear gives you a minimum of 1 round of shaken even on a successful save and it also gives the opportunity to cause a foe to give AOOs to your allies on a failed save. Command gives more options and lasts longer, and would be a good option to switch Cause Fear into when you hit level 4.

You have no buffing spells yet (you wanted to be a buffer). Bless is a good one. Shield of Faith is another. You can get these via scrolls or wands and still retain your current spell selections.

Sanctuary as a spell is good when you are a credible threat. Alas, until then, casting Sanctuary is nearly a wasted action without it. I'd drop that for a buffing spell. Shield of Faith will be useful for nigh your career while Bless is good now and for the next couple of levels.

Combat (In)Actions:

You have just about zero in combat actions except to heal people and 1 round of Erase From Time. You could use more options. The below are suggestions to increase in combat options.

Alchemist Fire and Acid Flasks are decent damage for level 3. You should be decent to hit with +4 against a Touch AC.

A wand of Sound Burst (or Burst of Radiance) instead of the Wand of Lesser Restoration would eliminate a lot of combat inaction troubles up to and thru level 4. If you have the option to change that wand out yet, I think it would be a more fun option for you.

A wand of Bless would really help your combat buffing to start.

Load up on a few scrolls as soon as you can. Scrolls of Bless, Shield of Faith, Cause Fear, Obscuring Mist, Magic Weapon, Comprehend Languages, etc. give you options and unpredictability.

Another concern I have with Cause Fear over Doom is that after 6HD it becomes useless. Isn't that some wasted mileage for limited spell selection or should I really not be worried about that?

Sovereign Court

Oh, also wanted to clarify that I forgot to put in the original post that I did in fact pick up Bless as a spell already. My bad. Original post has been edited to reflect.


ZangRavnos wrote:

I went with Sanctuary cause it can be cast on allies as a rescue button. Ultimately, I would like to focus on debuffs, but early game save DC's for enemies are always a little on the high side, so save or suck doesn't seem to work so well until higher level. I could be wrong, I mean my starting Cha seems pretty high. Plus the early game debuffs don't really seem to fit flavor, but I may be overly married to the concept and just need to get over it.

Rescue Button Comparison... Sanctuary restricts actions of the party member in danger and doesn't do anything to get them out of danger. Cure Light Wounds doesn't restrict actions, is guaranteed to give some help to the person in trouble, and targets 99% of all real dangers at level 3. Just a thought...

There aren't a lot of spells that involve time theme without imagining extra descriptive only adjectives.

Example: Sound Burst can be you causing a break in space-time that causes a sonic backlash and potentially stuns people caught in the vortex you created.

Technically, the spell is exactly the same as Sound Burst, but it sounds a lot more time-space spiffy.

I think casting debuff spells would be fine start at level 3 for you. 19 CHA is great and a 20 at level 4 puts you squarely into the competition. The Spell Focus feat would be great for you if you wanted to go this route.

One quick note... the revelation Temporal Celerity seems to be ideal for your character. Going first to buff or debuff is a great thing. Further, it functions all day long without action whereas Time Flicker will take up a valuable, valuable combat action each combat.

Have you considered the Dual Cursed archetype? That is a FABULOUS debuffing archetype for an oracle. The Misfortune revelation could be described to make people shift a moment in time to mess up their reactions and abilities. Further, as an immediate action, you sort of gain the ability to act "out of time" to cause the effect to happen.


ZangRavnos wrote:
Another concern I have with Cause Fear over Doom is that after 6HD it becomes useless. Isn't that some wasted mileage for limited spell selection or should I really not be worried about that?

Definitely. That is specifically why I suggested to swap it out at level 4 to the Command Spell. Command can wreck a foe long after level 6 just due to forcing foes to give AOOs to your beefy warriors.

Sovereign Court

Rory wrote:

Rescue Button Comparison... Sanctuary restricts actions of the party member in danger and doesn't do anything to get them out of danger. Cure Light Wounds doesn't restrict actions, is guaranteed to give some help to the person in trouble, and targets 99% of all real dangers at level 3. Just a thought...

There aren't a lot of spells that involve time theme without imagining extra descriptive only adjectives.

Example: Sound Burst can be you causing a break in space-time that causes a sonic backlash and potentially stuns people caught in the vortex you created.

Technically, the spell is exactly the same as Sound Burst, but it sounds a lot more time-space spiffy.

I think casting debuff spells would be fine start at level 3 for you. 19 CHA is great and a 20 at level 4 puts you squarely into the competition. The Spell Focus feat would be great for you if you wanted to go this route.

One quick note... the revelation Temporal Celerity seems to be ideal for your character. Going first to buff or debuff is a great thing. Further, it functions all day long without action whereas Time Flicker will take up a valuable, valuable combat action each combat.

Have you considered the Dual Cursed archetype? That is a FABULOUS debuffing archetype for an oracle. The Misfortune revelation could be described to make people shift a moment in time to mess up their reactions and abilities. Further, as an immediate action, you sort of gain the ability to act "out of time" to cause the effect to happen.

My plan was to mold spell effect flavor the way you are suggestion, so I do like that alot. Things like Cause Fear are a little more difficult to bend that way but I can live with it. :)

I did consider dual-cursed, but it seemed like alot of detriment. The disadvantages seemed incredibly heavy. What would be the best way to do that? Which curses are most beneficial? They just seem to hurt.

Sovereign Court

Rory wrote:
ZangRavnos wrote:
Another concern I have with Cause Fear over Doom is that after 6HD it becomes useless. Isn't that some wasted mileage for limited spell selection or should I really not be worried about that?
Definitely. That is specifically why I suggested to swap it out at level 4 to the Command Spell. Command can wreck a foe long after level 6 just due to forcing foes to give AOOs to your beefy warriors.

OH! I forgot that I could do that.


ZangRavnos wrote:
I did consider dual-cursed, but it seemed like alot of detriment. The disadvantages seemed incredibly heavy. What would be the best way to do that? Which curses are most beneficial? They just seem to hurt.

Tongues. They can't understand you in combat? That is because you are "speaking too fast"! Good time theme. Hurts the Command spell type spells, but is nearly harmless for the party if they spend 1 skill point into a "party language".

Lame Curse. With an 8 strength, encumbrance is a quick issue, which causes movement loss. With this curse, you can ignore encumbrance pretty much. Boots of Striding and Springing practically negate it. You can theme this as you slowing down in time.

Combine Lame (slow time theme) and Tongues (fast time theme) for a decent time theme flavored combination.

Other potentials:

Legalist. Always tell the truth. Hurts only if you like to bluff.

Haunted. Harmless except when you you try to use Scrolls and Wands.

Blackened. Good offensive spell options. Not so good for your touch spells and effects. I'd avoid it.

Diseased. Road Bump if you want to use CHA skills. High CHA blasts thru most of it. Circlet of Persuasion (you'll want this anyways) just about does the rest.


ZangRavnos wrote:

My plan was to mold spell effect flavor the way you are suggestion, so I do like that alot. Things like Cause Fear are a little more difficult to bend that way but I can live with it. :)

Bestow Curse to make a foe act only 50% of the time seems time themed righteous. -6 STR, DEX or CON to "age" them seems to fit nicely too.

Cause Fear is indeed a little tougher, I agree. You could say that it causes a localized, really weird, unnatural sensation from a time swirl that taps a creature's basic instinctive reaction to flight. It makes sense for higher hit dice, more experienced foes, to automatically override these instincts.

Sovereign Court

Rory wrote:
ZangRavnos wrote:

My plan was to mold spell effect flavor the way you are suggestion, so I do like that alot. Things like Cause Fear are a little more difficult to bend that way but I can live with it. :)

Bestow Curse to make a foe act only 50% of the time seems time themed righteous. -6 STR, DEX or CON to "age" them seems to fit nicely too.

Cause Fear is indeed a little tougher, I agree. You could say that it causes a localized, really weird, unnatural sensation from a time swirl that taps a creature's basic instinctive reaction to flight. It makes sense for higher hit dice, more experienced foes, to automatically override these instincts.

I suppose another way to theme it would be that Cause Fear imparts brief glimpses of their bodies' eventual and inevitable decay, which is pretty creepy.

Sovereign Court

As far as weapons, or other non-magical options, is what I have sufficient or should I go a different direction?

And could someone clarify for me how the Aging Touch against an enemies weapon or armor work in combat?


ZangRavnos wrote:

As far as weapons, or other non-magical options, is what I have sufficient or should I go a different direction?

And could someone clarify for me how the Aging Touch against an enemies weapon or armor work in combat?

With 8 STR, ditch all melee weapon thoughts. Unless you take the feat Weapon Finesse, even your touch attacks can be hard to land. You might talk to your GM to see if Weapon Finesse is waived for touch attacks due to the Feat Tax waiver in place.

The Gnome Hooked Hammer is right out. It is a martial weapon for gnomes and you aren't proficient in martial weapons. You would be a -2 to hit with it at level 3 and be -1 damage.

A light crossbow can function since you have a better DEX. However, the damage of 1d6 is subpar at level 3. You will want to focus resources on developing better actions.

The best weapon you can wield with 8 STR with or without Weapon Finesse is Spiked Gauntlets. This will cause you to threaten to give your allies flanking bonus potential while keeping your hands free. They aren't for you to do damage. :-)

Aging Touch Attack
+2 BAB
+1 Size
-1 for 8 STR (or +2 for 14 DEX with Weapon Finesses)
-------------
+2 to hit (or +5 to hit with Weapon Finesse) vs. Touch AC

Sovereign Court

Weapon Finesse is basically free due to the feat tax ruling so my touch attacks should be decent, but it seems like my options are pretty slim if I'm not pure cast. I like the spiked gauntlet idea, and it's true that it's not for damage, really. So I'll ditch the other stuff. Seems like if I don't have at least a ranged weapon, I'll blow through all my spells and such in the first combat of the day or sit on my thumbs. Could invest in more wands, but I really don't have THAT much money to play around with.


ZangRavnos wrote:
Could invest in more wands, but I really don't have THAT much money to play around with.

How much cash do you have to spend?

A 20 charge Wand of Sound Burst or Burst of Radiance would be an excellent attack at level 3 (auto damage and a chance to stun or blind). 20 charges should last you long enough to get to 4th to 5th level and more spell slots. You will use either a lot more than a Wand of Lesser Restoration (which you can buy later if desired/needed).

A bandoleer of 8 Acid Flasks costs 82gp and give you 8 charges of ranged touch attack damage.

Buy a 20 charge Wand of Bless to start and use your spell slots for those Cause Fear, etc. spells that are saving throw based. That will stretch your spell slots quite a bit.

If you go with the Pyromaniac alternative racial trait for gnomes, you'll also be able to cast Produce Flame once per day. At level 3, that is three attacks of 1d6+3 damage. It's not time themed, but it's decent to start you off. That can be equal to a combat per day at level 3.

Sovereign Court

A 20 charge Wand of Sound Burst is 1,800 gold out of an allotted 2,000 starting gold.


ZangRavnos wrote:
A 20 charge Wand of Sound Burst is 1,800 gold out of an allotted 2,000 starting gold.

Can you swap out the Wand of Lesser Restoration that you had in your list for the Wand of Sound Burst?

Level 3 is going to be the "pain" filled level due to not enough spell slots. Spending 1800 gold, or just 900 gold for a 10 charge wand, to negate that headache is still kind of tempting to me I confess.

Sovereign Court

20 charge wand of Lesser Restoration is a 300 GP wand, as being a Level 1 Paladin spell. Makes full wand 750 and 20 charges 300.

Yeah, action economy is going to be hideous no matter what I do.

If I scrap the Lesser Res and go with 20 charge of Bless and 10 charge of Sound Burst, that leaves me with no other money left for scrolls, potions, etc. It's doable, but I think I'm in for a rough ride trying to do what I'm trying to do.


Would your GM let you add relevant wizard spells to your spell list? Deja Vu is one that seems topical.

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