power armor needs rules


Rules Questions

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I keep reading and re-reading the section on power armor and thinking I must be missing something, because several important rules needed to make it function seem to be missing.

Batteries: there's a whole paragraph under power armor about batteries and usage, but it fails to mention what action it is to replace a battery. Is it just a move action like reloading anything else? Do you need to exit the armor to replace the battery?

Auto loader upgrade: makes it a move action to reload your weapon, but isn't that just the normal rules for reloading? How is this an upgrade?

Weapon slots: there is exactly two sentences about this, and they don't say anything. What does installing a weapon onto power armor do? Do you have to install a weapon in order to use it with power armor? Does it take any time or skill to install a weapon? Is there any limit to what can be installed? Can you have 3 heavy weapons installed on a flight frame? Can you then fire all 3 at once with soldier's onslaught? You can't install melee weapons, so how do they work with power armor? Can you disarm an installed weapon? Can you exit your suit of armor, then pick up one of the installed guns and shoot it? If your power armor is huge, do the weapons you install in it need to be huge too?

Phase shield: a power armor only shield that takes one arm. You can't make attacks with that arm, but do you make attacks with arms on power armor? Does it take your arms to fire your weapons? Maybe arms are only used to hold melee weapons, so this rule is only to say you can't use a phase shield with a two handed melee weapon? How many arms does a suit of power armor even have? Does being a Kasatha change this?

Grand Lodge

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look to a new book once it comes out is the great reply I like...... it seems in their haste they left somethings out for another book


One of these is obvious.
Particularly when you look at the illustrations of the existing power armour it is anthropomorphic so you can use the hands to wield weapons, unless they are used for something else like the shield. Installed weapons are things like shoulder mounts and other independent weapons which can be used regardless of the status of the arms.

In my opinion the autoloader makes it a move action to reload a mounted weapon not a hand held weapon which uses the normal rules you refer too. Not sure what the normal load rules for mounted weapons as I hae not read the book for a while, I suspect they may be impossible to reload from inside the armour without an autoloader.

I also suspect we will get another book of power armours but I think the designers believe that most of your questions are covered in the main books, possibly incorrectly

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite.

Here is what I think:

gnoams wrote:
Batteries: there's a whole paragraph under power armor about batteries and usage, but it fails to mention what action it is to replace a battery. Is it just a move action like reloading anything else? Do you need to exit the armor to replace the battery?

Yes, it is a move action to change a battery and no you don't have to exit the armor to change it.

gnoams wrote:
Auto loader upgrade: makes it a move action to reload your weapon, but isn't that just the normal rules for reloading? How is this an upgrade?

On page 205-206 it says "that's mounted to the power armor." Otherwise you would have to get out of the suit to replace ammo/batteries of the weapon.

gnoams wrote:

Weapon slots: there is exactly two sentences about this, and they don't say anything. Not true. Both sentences gives very specific information on what can be installed and how many.

What does installing a weapon onto power armor do? Allows you to use the ranged weapon to attack with.

Do you have to install a weapon in order to use it with power armor? Yes. But I don't see anything limiting you from carrying a person weapon while wearing the power suit.

Does it take any time or skill to install a weapon? Since none is detailed, I would say no.

Is there any limit to what can be installed? Yes. Only Ranged weapons can be installed. That is in the first sentence.

Can you have 3 heavy weapons installed on a flight frame? Yes because Heavy Weapons are ranged.

Can you then fire all 3 at once with soldier's onslaught? Yes. Solarian's Onslaught as well.

You can't install melee weapons, so how do they work with power armor? You would have to hold it with your hand

Can you disarm an installed weapon? No. Page 246 states "You knock an item the target is holding out of the target’s hands and onto the ground." Since the weapon is not being held by the creature, you can't disarm them.

Can you exit your suit of armor, then pick up one of the installed guns and shoot it? Likely GM call. I would say yes. Full round action to exit and then a standard to remove weapon from mount I think is reasonable. But I didn't see anyplace where it is covered in the rules.

If your power armor is huge, do the weapons you install in it need to be huge too? The huge is more of a space on the map reference I believe. so no, you don't need huge weapons. In fact, I don't think there are any rules for huge weapons.

Phase shield: a power armor only shield that takes one arm. You can't make attacks with that arm, but do you make attacks with arms on power armor? Yes, as unarmed attacks, with a melee weapon that is being held, or a personal ranged weapon.

Does it take your arms to fire your weapons? If you have personal weapon not mounted then yes. You could use weapons mounted to attack with as well. But not both.

Maybe arms are only used to hold melee weapons, so this rule is only to say you can't use a phase shield with a two handed melee weapon? It is in the Phase Shield itself; "you can hold an item in that hand but not use it or make attacks with it." Since you can't use the hand for attacks, you can't use it to attack with a two handed weapon.

How many arms does a suit of power armor even have? Does being a Kasatha change this? Looking at page 196 under Armor Size, armor is made for specific races. So yes, a Kasatha could get powered armor with four arms. However the same rules would apply for what a Kasathan can do with those four armors.

Hopefully this helps.

Shadow Lodge

So the conclusion I come to is yes, there is rules missing, not that I missed reading them somewhere. I guess it is a matter of wait and hope they come out with a book for them. In the meantime, make up rules that seem reasonable and run with it. All well and good (except for society play).

Thanks for the replies, many of these are the same calls I would make.
Gary Bush: I am curious why you think you would need to exit your armor to reload mounted guns, but not to replace the armor's battery?

Weapons specifically state a number of arms required to wield them. I am sure that installing a weapon into power armor is intended to bypass this requirement, but there is not a word written in the rules to actually support this assumption. That's just me imagining how it would work based upon the brief descriptions provided. All it says under weapon slots is that they exist, and that they have a limit. One glance at a power armor stat block also tells me that weapon slots are a thing that exists and have a limit, but without definition that is pretty useless and redundant info.

Here's a couple ways I imagine how a weapon slot is supposed to be. I'm sure there are many other ways it could go too, none of these are right or wrong given the current lack of rules:
One is that it is an integrated weapon into the power armor. It is not the same as a personal version of the weapon, you have to install it for it to function, it can't be fired if separated from the armor. They have no trigger, the firing mechanism would be wired in and triggered from the cockpit. The ammo/cells would be part of the armor, and replaceable by the pilot without having to get out or use an auto loader.
The other way would be that power armor has sockets where you place a normal personal weapon into. They just get clamped in, and a little robot finger pulls the trigger or something. You could put any weapon in and pull them back out. The ammo/cells would be in the weapon like normal, so you might need to get out or use an auto loader to load them.
Or, there doesn't seem to be any reason you couldn't just use the power armor's arms to reload with, as long as they aren't holding something.

Liberty's Edge

Because of the reloading arms upgrade. I think a user would need to exit the armor to reload ammo/battery for a mounted weapon unless the arms are present.

Agree that if a longarm rifle is installed on a suit of powered armor than a user does not need use both hands to fire it.

As for the armor, I don't see why it should require a user to exit to replace the armor battery. While it doesn't say it, I don't see why the reloading arm can't reload the battery for the suit was well.

I don't understand why you believe weapon slot are useless. The flight frame has 3 weapon slots. A user can put 3 ranged weapons in those slots. One could be a slot on the arm with a flame-thrower on it. Another could be mounted on the left shoulder and has a longarm laser rifle. A third is mounted on the back that has a grenade launcher in it. I guess I don't understand why that is insufficient information. The rules are lite, I agree. This is intentional because the Devs didn't want to have a bunch of little rules for players to deal with.

In the end, lets just have fun playing. I play society so if there is a concern by campaign leadership, they will tell us. In homebrew games, the GM will make the decision.


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I have question about power use of Power Armors. Is it intends, that all except the Battle Armor are useless for exploring? With a energy capacity of 40 or 100 minutes the most armors just expensive scrab! Only the Battle with 20 hours could be helpful.


Or you keep a stock of batteries on you. At higher levels that's totally viable. Especially if you've got a caster friend who can transfer the charges of batteries you find into your batteries.


There is some clarification about batteries and recharging here:

Science, Huh? Ain't It a Thing, with errata promised in the near future.

Pretty much eliminates the need to transfer charges


Gary Bush wrote:

Because of the reloading arms upgrade. I think a user would need to exit the armor to reload ammo/battery for a mounted weapon unless the arms are present.

Agree that if a longarm rifle is installed on a suit of powered armor than a user does not need use both hands to fire it.

As for the armor, I don't see why it should require a user to exit to replace the armor battery. While it doesn't say it, I don't see why the reloading arm can't reload the battery for the suit was well.

I don't understand why you believe weapon slot are useless. The flight frame has 3 weapon slots. A user can put 3 ranged weapons in those slots. One could be a slot on the arm with a flame-thrower on it. Another could be mounted on the left shoulder and has a longarm laser rifle. A third is mounted on the back that has a grenade launcher in it. I guess I don't understand why that is insufficient information. The rules are lite, I agree. This is intentional because the Devs didn't want to have a bunch of little rules for players to deal with.

In the end, lets just have fun playing. I play society so if there is a concern by campaign leadership, they will tell us. In homebrew games, the GM will make the decision.

Unfortunately, it does say it:

CRB pg. 205-206 wrote:

AUTOMATED LOADER

This device attaches to powered armor and consists of a small
robotic arm and a storage compartment that holds up to 2 bulk
of ammunition and batteries. You can activate the automated
loader as a move action to reload or recharge a weapon that’s
mounted to the powered armor (but not to replace the batteries
of the powered armor itself).
Abilities that let you reload faster
than a move action don’t apply to an automated loader.
This upgrade can be installed only in powered armor.


th3razzer wrote:
Gary Bush wrote:

Because of the reloading arms upgrade. I think a user would need to exit the armor to reload ammo/battery for a mounted weapon unless the arms are present.

Agree that if a longarm rifle is installed on a suit of powered armor than a user does not need use both hands to fire it.

As for the armor, I don't see why it should require a user to exit to replace the armor battery. While it doesn't say it, I don't see why the reloading arm can't reload the battery for the suit was well.

I don't understand why you believe weapon slot are useless. The flight frame has 3 weapon slots. A user can put 3 ranged weapons in those slots. One could be a slot on the arm with a flame-thrower on it. Another could be mounted on the left shoulder and has a longarm laser rifle. A third is mounted on the back that has a grenade launcher in it. I guess I don't understand why that is insufficient information. The rules are lite, I agree. This is intentional because the Devs didn't want to have a bunch of little rules for players to deal with.

In the end, lets just have fun playing. I play society so if there is a concern by campaign leadership, they will tell us. In homebrew games, the GM will make the decision.

Unfortunately, it does say it:

CRB pg. 205-206 wrote:

AUTOMATED LOADER

This device attaches to powered armor and consists of a small
robotic arm and a storage compartment that holds up to 2 bulk
of ammunition and batteries. You can activate the automated
loader as a move action to reload or recharge a weapon that’s
mounted to the powered armor (but not to replace the batteries
of the powered armor itself).
Abilities that let you reload faster
than a move action don’t apply to an automated loader.
This upgrade can be installed only in powered armor.

so... i am missing something about the auto loader than? Can you not normally reload an installed weapon?

Am i the only one puzzled that you can not hook up an energy weapon to the armor's power supply?

Liberty's Edge

th3razzer wrote:

Unfortunately, it does say it:

CRB pg. 205-206 wrote:

AUTOMATED LOADER

... (but not to replace the batteries
of the powered armor itself).
...

Missed that. Thanks!

Liberty's Edge

Torbyne wrote:

so... i am missing something about the auto loader than? Can you not normally reload an installed weapon?

Am i the only one puzzled that you can not hook up an energy weapon to the armor's power supply?

That is pretty much the question. Without the Automated Loader, it appears that to reload requires the user to exist the armor.

As for why energy weapons are not powered by the armor's power supply, I would suggest because the power supply is a battery not a self-contained power core. Energy weapons tend to drain batteries pretty fast. Would not be fun to be in Power Armor if the battery was dead!

Shadow Lodge

There is nothing saying you can't load a weapon without the auto loader. Until further rules are published for power armor, all the auto loader does is nothing that isn't covered in the basic rules. It's just one of the many frustrating lack of rules for power armor.

Liberty's Edge

I agree.

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