What is the purpose of abilities that complement an archetype?


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

On classes that have abilities to pick from a list, like rage powers, rogue talents, arcanas, and so on, there are archetypes that modify said list saying that it complements the archetype. But many times, that ability is not being "complemented" at all, as the class already had access to those options.

This happens on several archetypes. For example, the magus's bladebound archetype (from ultimate magic) says the following:

Quote:


Magus Arcana: The following magus arcana complement
the bladebound magus archetype: arcane accuracy, broad
study, dispelling strike, and ref lection.

But all the listed arcanas are already available to the magus (from the same book). In fact, they are all options from the base class, when arcanas are introduced to us.


This is just a suggested list of options that the author thought went well with the theme or mechanics of the archetype, nothing more.


Then the Totem Warrior (APG) is nothing but suggestions? Apparently the archetype has no features at all.

Quote:


Totem Warrior

A barbarian often has a special totem that is the patron of her
tribe. While individual totems vary, those in the tribe that
call upon a totem receive similar abilities. Totem warrior
barbarians can select from the following rage powers.

Rage Powers: The totem warrior is based entirely upon
his totem rage powers. In addition to the totem powers
themselves, the following rage powers complement the
totem warrior archtype (depending on the totem chosen):
animal fury*, low-light vision*, night vision*, raging
climber*, raging leaper*, raging swimmer*, and swift foot*.


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That archetype is famous for doing nothing. On the upside it costs nothing as well...

Silver Crusade

Yep.


The totem archetype is a mess that basically never did anything.

Originally it gave the power to take multiple different totem rage power families. This was way too powerful, especially as more totems have been added. They changed it pretty quickly so that you weren't allowed to have more than 1 kind of totem (usually beast totem).

So yes, you're right. It does nothing.


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Yeah, but who's going to tell a totem barbarian that?

"Sorry, big guy, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your archetype does nothing."
"I understand and will in no way respond with murder and smashing things."

Silver Crusade

Was it ever worded to allow multiple totems, or was that just people's assumptions?


Why even publish an archetype that will do nothing? I mean, it doesn't help with flavor, as the rage power alone does a better job at that.


Rysky wrote:
Was it ever worded to allow multiple totems, or was that just people's assumptions?

I think the original wording heavily implied multiple totems were allowed, but honestly I can't remember exactly what it said.

Silver Crusade

They were still experimenting with archetypes and how they functioned with other stuff when they wrote that one, so if you had a Barbarian who took a Totem Rage Power you were now a Totem Warrior Barbarian.

But I agree, it was a whole lot of words to say nothing.

Silver Crusade

Claxon wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Was it ever worded to allow multiple totems, or was that just people's assumptions?
I think the original wording heavily implied multiple totems were allowed, but honestly I can't remember exactly what it said.

Okies.

I hadn't noticed any change in wordings in it but they might have changed something.


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I just checked my second printing. It's the same wording as in the PRD.

However... the totem barbarian section exactly fills out the page. As a long-time professional writer, I appreciate how sometimes you need just that little extra bit of text to eliminate gratuitous white space before turning the page... but that's just idle speculation on my part.


I found this from a thread about the totem warrior:

Sleet Storm wrote:

From the Rage Powers Section of UC:

"A Barbarian cannot select from more than one group of totem rage powers,.................,unless she has the totem warrior archetype"

I guess that thats the only clarification for the Totem Warrior archetype in all the books.It should have been specified that way in the APG all along.

So originally under the description of rage powers in ultimate combat it said you couldn't have more than one group of totem rage power, unless you were a totem warrior archetype.

That was apparently the part that was changed, to remove the part that said "except the totem warrior".


Oh, and here's an FAQ about it:

Quote:

Ultimate Combat seems to imply that the Totem Warrior archetype (from the Advanced Player's Guide) allows you to take more than one type of totem rage powers. Is this an erratum for the Totem Warrior archetype?

No, the line in Ultimate Combat is in error. We will get that fixed in the next printing. Until then, the restriction on only taking totem rage powers from one group remains in place.

Silver Crusade

Ah, that was eating at the back of my head, cause I didn't remember anything in the APG changing, it was UC that was messing with s~$!.

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