Penetrating DR with Druidzilla


Advice


What are some ways to penetrate DR with a Druidzilla character (multi class Monk/Druid/Fighter). It seems its going to cause me problems with my tentacle attacks.


amulet of mighty fists, there are some fighter stuff you could use to help


The amulet is too expensive though


not really, if your going for a natural attack build AOMF is a staple


64000 for +3


Atalius wrote:
The amulet is too expensive though

It depends on how many natural attacks you get as to whether it's worth it or not. If you get 4 or more it's cheaper than anything else per attack.


If there's anyone else who might provide buffs - versatile weapon can be cast on a natural attack. Weapons against evil might work too. You can cast magic fang yourself, though you'll need a scroll or something for the greater version.

BTW, 64K gets you a +4 AoMF. For a +3 you just need 36K.


Atalius wrote:
64000 for +3

its that price for a +4(+3 is 36000) and if your making a proper natural attack character that is a really cheap price for having all your natural attacks be at +4 it takes a twf that amount to get both weapons to +4


Ahh, 36k not too bad at all. I guess it will have to be done. Should it be my number priority item to get?

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you're focusing on many smaller natural attacks the amulet is your only real shot and you need to be prepared to pay for it.

Most druids though could have a selection of different forms depending on what you need at the moment, and you can pick a form with a single really heavy natural weapon (look at arsinoitherium for example). If you have exactly one natural attack you get 1.5 strength bonus and the heavy power attack, and you can try to just go over the DR by brute strength. It's not ideal but it's a backup plan.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I can't think of anything you'd want more. Though you'll still get some minor items before you can afford that of course - a +2-4 str belt, a cloak of resistance & ring of protection, etc.


don't forget if you got 5+ levels into fighter to puck up the advanced weapon training feat and take the advanced weapon training feature that lets you apply all weapon specific feats to your weapon group

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Atalius wrote:
What are some ways to penetrate DR with a Druidzilla character (multi class Monk/Druid/Fighter). It seems its going to cause me problems with my tentacle attacks.

If your shape has a lot of natural attacks, consider a Furyborn enhancement on an Amulet of Mighty Fists. That'll get your attacks up to +5 weapon (to pierce just about any DR), after a few attacks at a much cheaper cost.

Grand Lodge

- Bristle
- Heart of The Metal
- Furious
- Furyborn
- Bloodrager dip celestial bloodline. This with a +1 furious amulet covers almost everything.
- Using "Oe Big Attack" wild shape.
- Change shape to something with grab or trip.
- Align weapon (communal)
- Bless weapon
- Spirit-Bound Blade Not DR but worth knowing about.
- Allying weapon trick
- Have an ally carry a +1 Called Adamantine weapon. Turn into a earth elemental and call it.

Sovereign Court

Grandlounge wrote:


- Heart of The Metal
- Align weapon (communal)
- Bless weapon
- Spirit-Bound Blade Not DR but worth knowing about.
- Allying weapon trick

These probably don't work because these spells and abilities work on manufactured weapons. (See this FAQ So no good for boosting your natural attacks.

Grandlounge wrote:


- Furious
- Bloodrager dip celestial bloodline. This with a +1 furious amulet covers almost everything.

This is a fairly neat solution. Bloodrager dip can do a lot of things for a druid (fast movement, rage, saves, weapon proficiencies, bloodrager wands).

Eventually you may wish to proceed to a +2 furious amulet to also deal with DR/adamantine. BBEG wizards love their stoneskin.

Grandlounge wrote:


- Furyborn

Well it's a +2 equivalent enchantment and you have to damage an opponent to make it work, so it's a lackluster solution. For a +2 bonus I'd rather just have Holy.

Grandlounge wrote:


- Bristle

I'm not sure a +x enhancement bonus to damage specifically is really the same as counting as a +x weapon that might penetrate DR.

Grandlounge wrote:


- Have an ally carry a +1 Called Adamantine weapon. Turn into a earth elemental and call it.

Surprisingly elemental familiars in PFS can't wield weapons. And if you're just going to use weapons, why try to make a natural attack druid, why not use a goliath druid?

Grandlounge wrote:


- Change shape to something with grab or trip.

If you're not the only melee dude in your party, this. Accept that you're not always the best person to handle certain enemies, and that sometimes you're better as support role.


Planar Wild Shape would be a decent grab for any Wildshape focused Druid. Aside from the Energy Resistances, DR and Darkvision, you get to bypass DR/Good or Evil.

I cant site where it's stated at the moment but I know I read somewhere that having DR against something automatically means your natural attacks and unarmed strikes are considered as such. DR/Magic means they are considered magic for bypassing DR... DR/Evil means they are considered Good aligned and vise versa.


- Dip a level into Bloodrager (or get the Rage sub-domain thru some druid archetype)
- Get Craft Wondrous Item feat

8000 gold for a +1 Furious Amulet penetrates DR/silver and DR/cold iron
18,000 gold penetrates DR/adamantium
32,000 gold penetrates DR/alignment

Considering you can also craft a STR/DEX/CON belt and WIS headband for half price, it's almost like you get the amulet for free! :-)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

@Ascalaphus

Re: faq.

You are way over generalizing the FAQ the FAQ applies to situations in which the question appiles.

Quote:
Many places in the rules use the term “ranged weapon attacks” and similar terms, but how does this apply to spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural abilities, and extraordinary abilities (heretoafter called special abilities) that require ranged attacks but might not necessarily seem like weapons

Re: furious getting to a net +4 is nice!

Re : furyborn

Furybourn is great for a secondary attacker like an animal companion so you moderate the wealth spent or anyone with pounce. When looking at the value of some thing you have to set out the full math 16000 vs 100000 gp. Then decide what to do with the remaining money. If you make the same amulet holy and corrosive. But cast greater magic fang to keep accuracy and base damage equal it takes 4 attacks to by pass Dr.

Consider this sinario. Dr 10 adamantine you lose 40 damage over the first 4 attacks but your extra energy damage covered the loss +.5 extra. Then on the remaining 2 attacks you get bonues damage.

Against any non Dr creature you do way more damage. Against evil ones with dr10 CI,S,A your slightly ahead then significantly ahead on round 2 against the same enemy. But it is weaker against dr 20 adamantine that is not evil and if they are it takes 4 attacks to make op the difference. It is not perfect but it come on line much earlier and is equal or superior in 95% of cases.

Re: Bristle

Attack roll is nowhere in the overcoming Dr section why would enchantment to damage not over come damage reduction? I understand that it odd but it seems both within the rules and logical.

Re: elementals in pfs

I'm going to need to see a rule sitation on that. People tend to get confused from the animal companions can't use weapons blog post which is understandable. Elementals can use weapon, elementals are not animals, polymorph does not change your type, you maintain all your proficiencies, numerous pfs sinarios elementals use weapons.

The only point on the otherisde I have seen is elemental familairs can't use weapons.

As to why elementals I think they are cooler, they have amazing movement, elemental start more accurate, and have a better ac boost. But the best reasons is favouring variety and flexibility over most things. I tend toward the idea that you die not because you did 5 less damage but because you were unprepared for a particular fight.

That said urban and Goliath druids are great but not what the OP asked for I try to not recommend outside of the op's build unless it really needs work and even I try to preface that with an apology and explanation.

Sovereign Court

I wouldn't be too quick to conclude that natural attacks are weapons:

Natural Attacks Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon).
FAQ wrote:
In the same vein as abilities like Arcane Strike that affect a character’s weapons, abilities that say “with a weapon,” “with a melee weapon,” and “with a ranged weapon” almost never work with special abilities because such wording is almost always used as shorthand for “manufactured weapon,” “manufactured melee weapon,” and “manufactured ranged weapon.” The exception is abilities that deal damage when a creature touches or hits you in melee (for instance, the occultis’s energy ward focus power), which should also deal damage when a creature makes a melee touch attack against you but rarely call them out directly.

Bristle doesn't go through DR/magic, because it only gives an enhancement bonus on damage rolls, but not attacks:

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters.

Grand Lodge

Natural attacks.

The Universal monster rules refer to natural weapons 7 or 8 times referring to there enchantment, alignment dr, while also referencing specific monsters natural attacks.

Quote:
A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature.

or

Quote:
Such creature's natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Best I can tell the books uses weapons in place of manufactured weapons because they called weapons in the core rulebook. If you look at the core rulebook combat section for natural attacks.

Quote:


Natural Attacks

Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet).

You get a much clearer picture. Natural attacks are attacks. They are made with natural weapons. These attacks have different rules like not increasing the number of them with bab.

Con't Bristle.

That is for DR magic. It is not unreasonable to generalize but the part of the rules deal with enchantment and material DR is this.

Quote:

Damage Reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.

I fully understand the point you are making. It is possibly the intent of the rules, but I don't know. People read rules differently. Your view seems reasonable enough. As written I see inconsistent. The rules for DR magic different from the rules for material DR.

It is actually amazing how often issues arise because of the different writing of rules between these 2 books. I'm sure you have seen your fair share of these issues. I think you have been here longer than I have.


Grandlounge wrote:

- Bristle

- Heart of The Metal
- Furious
- Furyborn
- Bloodrager dip celestial bloodline. This with a +1 furious amulet covers almost everything.
- Using "Oe Big Attack" wild shape.
- Change shape to something with grab or trip.
- Align weapon (communal)
- Bless weapon
- Spirit-Bound Blade Not DR but worth knowing about.
- Allying weapon trick
- Have an ally carry a +1 Called Adamantine weapon. Turn into a earth elemental and call it.

Yeah, I'd say look down the list of Druid spells and see what you can use to self-buff. Also, I really like giving my Druidzilla levels in Warpriest, so look at the Cleric Spells, too.


Ascalaphus wrote:

Heart of The Metal

- Align weapon (communal)
- Bless weapon
- Spirit-Bound Blade Not DR but worth knowing about.
- Allying weapon trick

These probably don't work because these spells and abilities work on manufactured weapons. (See this FAQ

Well forget the FAQ for Align Weapon!

Align Weapon wrote:
You can’t cast this spell on a natural weapon

Heart of the Metal and Bless Weapon don't say the weapon you put them on can't be a Natural Weapon. So to this list I'll add Weapon Against Evil.

Ascalaphus wrote:
I wouldn't be too quick to conclude that natural attacks are weapons:
FAQ wrote:
In the same vein as abilities like Arcane Strike that affect a character’s weapons, abilities that say “with a weapon,” “with a melee weapon,” and “with a ranged weapon” almost never work with special abilities because such wording is almost always used as shorthand for “manufactured weapon,”

I'm not sure that a Natural Attack counts as a "special ability." But what I am sure about is that same FAQ excepts Natural Attacks.

That same FAQ, a little further down wrote:
The exception is abilities that deal damage when a creature touches or hits you in melee

Also, read the first sentence of the FAQ

FAQ, right in the beginning wrote:
In general, special abilities that require attack rolls benefit and suffer from all modifiers affecting attack rolls even if those modifiers mention weapon attack rolls (such as the penalty for firing into melee, the bonus on attack rolls from Point-Blank Shot and inspire courage, and the like), unless the spell specifically calls out that it doesn’t apply them

Also, if you are going to say that a Natural Attack is not a Weapon, what does that do the Magic Fang Spell?

Magic Fang wrote:
Magic fang gives one natural weapon or unarmed strike of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Are you going to argue that Claws are a Natural Attack, and not a Natural Weapon, that you can't cast Magic Fang on Claws? Or are you saying you can cast Magic Fang on Claws, but you just can't get the Enhancement bonus on Attacks made with those Claws?

Spell descirptions use "Natural Weapon" to mean "Natural Attack." And the FAQ you sighted calls out special abilities that do damage on and attack roll as benefiting from things that benefit weapons. And in general, things that require Attack Rolls also benefit from things that affect weapons: Point Blank Shot being useable on Rays, for example.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Penetrating DR with Druidzilla All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.