Can an Eidolon be considered family for the use of the "Kin Guardian" Trait?


Rules Questions

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I'm currently adding the finishing touches to an Unchained Summoner for PFS play, and saw the Kin Guardian Trait.

As the Eidolon has been with me since birth, and is considered family in all but blood, would it qualify for the feat?

Here is a link to the trait.

Kin Guardian:

When you use the aid another action to give a member of your family a bonus to AC, increase the bonus by 2. This increase is a trait bonus (and therefore doesn’t stack with increases granted by other family members using this trait). This trait has no effect when using the aid another action to increase a family member’s next attack roll.

I'm working on making my character and my Eidolon synergize as much as possible, and it's an interesting thought.


1) I assume your character is taking the trait and you want to know if Your Charactee will be able to give the Eidolon an AC bonus.

2) I would expect split opinions.

3) Consider Helpful or Protective Faith for alternatives in the event the DM does not go for it.

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toastedamphibian wrote:

1) I assume your character is taking the trait and you want to know if Your Charactee will be able to give the Eidolon an AC bonus.

2) I would expect split opinions.

3) Consider Helpful or Protective Faith for alternatives in the event the DM does not go for it.

1: Correct

2: What I expected, but considering the trait is based more on flavor than your average rule, I was curious what a PFS GM might rule it.

3: I currently have Helpful. As Kin Guardian offers a trait bonus and Helpful alters the Aid Another bonus, the two would, presumably, stack. It might seem like munchkin cheese, but I like the idea of the Summoner and Eidolon actually working together, as opposed to just being really good at different things.


Well, that gives an easy answer then: you can not have helpful and kin guardian. They are both Combat Traits.

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toastedamphibian wrote:
Well, that gives an easy answer then: you can not have helpful and kin guardian. They are both Combat Traits.

Helpful is a Race Trait of the Halfling, not a Combat Trait.

I'm looking Here.

Shame there seems to be two traits with the same name.


Intresting. Mine is the more recent printing. Not sure if it is supposed to be a different trait or a reprinting.

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toastedamphibian wrote:
Intresting. Mine is the more recent printing. Not sure if it is supposed to be a different trait or a reprinting.

One is from Halflings of Golarion, the other from Champions of Purity. Considering the different trait class, and that one is called "Helpful (Halfling)" I assume they're different traits.


if I'm reading correctly, Kin Guardian effectively grants a +4AC (2+2)bonus to the aided target while Helpful only adds a +3AC (2+1). IIRC a bonus from a Trait is un-typed, but you can not stack trait bonus, only take the higher.

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Scrapper wrote:
if I'm reading correctly, Kin Guardian effectively grants a +4AC (2+2)bonus to the aided target while Helpful only adds a +3AC (2+1). IIRC a bonus from a Trait is un-typed, but you can not stack trait bonus, only take the higher.

Helpful (Halfling) reads: Whenever you successfully perform an aid another action, you grant your ally a +4 bonus instead of the normal +2. Rather then giving a bonus of any kind, it changes the bonus from Aid Another. Instead of functioning as 2+2, it simply functions as a 4. An important difference, because that means no trait bonus has been applied. To contrast it to a similar trait, Inheritor reads:

Whenever you use the aid another action to aid an adjacent ally, increase the bonus you grant your ally by 1. This is a trait bonus. If Helpful performed the same, I imagine it would say it increases the bonus, or grants a bonus, rather than offering +4 instead of +2.

I would interpret the interaction between Helpful and Kin Guardian as Aid Another action (+4AC) then apply the Trait Bonus (+2AC). Assuming an Eidolon can be considered family at all.

I understand it's all YMMV and up to GM, mostly seeing if there's any proper RAW interpretation.

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i agree with the stacking of the effects, but i am of the opinion that things you have to summon on a daily basis aren't family. looking further doesn't it say you summon an aspect of the Eidolon that you bonded with, not the actual being.


Izabelle wrote:
Scrapper wrote:
if I'm reading correctly, Kin Guardian effectively grants a +4AC (2+2)bonus to the aided target while Helpful only adds a +3AC (2+1). IIRC a bonus from a Trait is un-typed, but you can not stack trait bonus, only take the higher.

Helpful (Halfling) reads: Whenever you successfully perform an aid another action, you grant your ally a +4 bonus instead of the normal +2. Rather then giving a bonus of any kind, it changes the bonus from Aid Another. Instead of functioning as 2+2, it simply functions as a 4. An important difference, because that means no trait bonus has been applied. To contrast it to a similar trait, Inheritor reads:

Whenever you use the aid another action to aid an adjacent ally, increase the bonus you grant your ally by 1. This is a trait bonus. If Helpful performed the same, I imagine it would say it increases the bonus, or grants a bonus, rather than offering +4 instead of +2.

I would interpret the interaction between Helpful and Kin Guardian as Aid Another action (+4AC) then apply the Trait Bonus (+2AC). Assuming an Eidolon can be considered family at all.

I understand it's all YMMV and up to GM, mostly seeing if there's any proper RAW interpretation.

Ah! I was looking at the wrong Helpful trait. As the Halfling version reads, I'd have to agree with your use of it. I wish there was some thing for Eidolons like the Improved Familiar Feat for Familiars, perhaps Ancestral Eidolon? If only it existed...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

There is a chained Eidilon type which allows you to essentially call forth an ancestor. I think it is in the 'Blood of Beasts' Player's Companion, that might not be the actual title. I don't have my copy at the moment.


Yep. Blood of Beast has the Ancestor subtype that should definitely qualify. You will need to note some things: The 4th level ability might as well just be an ability boost till 12 (+4 strength is not a bad ability though), and it's a bit weird with some races (A few races aren't the same as their ancestors: half-elf, half-orc, planetouched and changeling to name a few. The creator said it should be allowed in a home game but PFS is PFS). It needs a race with innate natural attacks, bonus proficiency or the human bonus feat (Which will be spent on a proficiency) to not be worse than other humanoid forms till 4.


I would definitely not accept an eidolon as 'kin' except in the specific case mentioned above where the eidolon is specifically called out as an ancestor. However, a phantom of a spiritualist could certainly be kin if it's the spirit of a deceased family member. That might be an alternative that would work.


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Jarred Henninger wrote:
i agree with the stacking of the effects, but i am of the opinion that things you have to summon on a daily basis aren't family.

We are married.

Are you telling me my spouse is not a family member, or are you just prejudiced against cross species marriage?

Silver Crusade

As long as you don't Banish it when having a lover's spat.

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Val'bryn2 wrote:
As long as you don't Banish it when having a lover's spat.

Of course I do. It's not a bug, it's a feature! =)

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