Vigilante Mockery - How does it work?


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I have yet to see one person agree on a singular thing about this Talent. Some say it extends the Duration, others say it makes it so you get MMO Agro Tanks. I'm hoping someone can help me out with this at least.

Mockery (Spymaster's Handbook) wrote:
The vigilante gains Antagonize (UM) as a bonus feat. He can target a creature with the Intimidate version of Antagonize twice each day, rather than just once. At 12th level, the effects of the Intimidate version of Antagonize last a number of rounds equal to the vigilante’s Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

So I ask, How does the Vigilante Talent Mockery's 12th level increase work?

Edit: Forgot to include Antagonize

Antagonize:
Antagonize wrote:

Benefit: You can make Diplomacy and Intimidate checks to make creatures respond to you with hostility. No matter which skill you use, antagonizing a creature takes a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and has a DC equal to 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower. Before you make these checks, you may make a Sense Motive check (DC 20) as a swift action to gain an insight bonus on these Diplomacy or Intimidate checks equal to your Charisma bonus until the end of your next turn. The benefits you gain for this check depend on the skill you use. This is a mind-affecting effect.

Diplomacy: You fluster your enemy. For the next minute, the target takes a –2 penalty on all attacks rolls made against creatures other than you and has a 10% spell failure chance on all spells that do not target you or that have you within their area of effect.

Intimidate: The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn, the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you, make a ranged attack against you, target you with a spell, or include you in the area of a spell. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from attacking you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot attack you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature attacks you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day.


Intimidate-Antagonize says: "On its next turn" and "you may make the check again as an immediate Action to extend the effect for 1 round"

So obviously with CHA16 it is "on its next 3 turns", extendable by 1 with another check. Or am I missing something?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

The argument I heard against that is that the Talent doesn't say "You can take the immediate action to extend this ability a number of times equal to your charisma modifier" but that the Effects of the Feat now last for Charisma Mod rounds.

Scarab Sages

From what I can tell, the effect (they try to attack you) lasts for you CHA mod number of rounds, no additional check needed. So 18 charisma, they attack you for 4 rounds based on the single initial intimidate roll.

The immediate action to extend the affect is only an option in a round that they are not capable of attacking you. And you can only extend it one round. The vigilante talent doesn't change that part of the feat.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Ferious Thune wrote:

From what I can tell, the effect (they try to attack you) lasts for you CHA mod number of rounds, no additional check needed. So 18 charisma, they attack you for 4 rounds based on the single initial intimidate roll.

The immediate action to extend the affect is only an option in a round that they are not capable of attacking you. And you can only extend it one round. The vigilante talent doesn't change that part of the feat.

The response I heard to this was that the effect still includes the "If attack, end effect" bit. Which then would make it so that it ends if someone attacks you still.

Now, I've been saying other's opinions, but my opinion is your's. That it should still last 4 rounds even if attacked. Because otherwise this 12th level increase on this talent does nothing, and that makes it really odd why'd they'd even include it if it did nothing.


I see two interpretations of this,

1) That the talent makes it so that if the opponent is unable to attack you, you don't have to roll antagonize again to extend it, and it's extended for CHA-mod rounds. I suppose it's usable in that you antagonize someone and then run away, and they have to keep chasing you for X number of rounds or until they manage to attack you to end the effect. Of course, this could be countered by something as simple as someone picking up a stone and throwing it. Even if it doesn't hit, it was still technically an 'attack'.

2) It straight up extends the whole effect for CHA-mod rounds. The opponent has to keep attacking you until the duration ends. The 'ends on attack' restriction is disregarded.

Personally, I think it's the second one.

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