Is there an arch-type for a Sex driven Paladin?

[lemeres]

Really, it might be better to drop the groping, and just have the paladin visit the 'Calistrian temple'. A LOT.

It is simpler to have willing sexual contact with the divine prostitutes than to do potential sexual assaults.

It is perfect- as a paladin, he even is immune to diseases too. Even... "mummy rot".

[An Immortal Lychee]

You could make an oradin with the Bones mystery...

I'll show myself out.

[Steelfiredragon]

ummm.... yeah... mmm,,,,sex driven paladin.....

no such oath, no such archtype.

no such number
no such name
return to sender

and this is coming from the person who does not agree with the lawful part of the paladin alignment

[D4rtagnan]

Alright so this is really starting to get out of hand. I did not ask if the nature of the actions was fall worthy or evil. I did not ask if I should do anything about him. (I have been playing with this group long enough tri know everyone conferblity levels.)

All I asked was if there was a funny or interesting Archtype I could suggest to a sex crazed Pali.

[Daniel Yeatman]

Nothing immediately comes to mind, though I agree, the level of self-righteousness in this thread is obnoxious. I know that some people can have a knee-jerk reaction to anything remotely sexual, but the OP didn't ask for that sort of advice, nor does claiming oppression or sexual assault even seem warranted. For supposedly open minded people, there seems to be a lot of "wrongbadfun" going on here.

[lemeres]

D4rtagnan wrote:

Alright so this is really starting to get out of hand. I did not ask if the nature of the actions was fall worthy or evil. I did not ask if I should do anything about him. (I have been playing with this group long enough tri know everyone conferblity levels.)

All I asked was if there was a funny or interesting Archtype I could suggest to a sex crazed Pali.

And our strong reactions are your answer- Paizo fears this kind of backlash, so they won't really do much with this kind of concept. It is just that divisive.

While sex is a part of Pathfinders, you will often find it locked into some clearly defined roles. For example, 'evil' things such as Lamasthu. This can get wild, because they are 'enemies'- you are supposed to reject what they represent with a greatsword to the face, and thus they can go to more extreme places since they can be written off like that.

The next area you can see sex tends to be CN in nature, going to places such as Calistria. This can go to some semi-acceptible places, but still often carries some negative connotations (Calistria is also a goddess of spies and revenge- thus you have to be careful not to cross her faithful or they will hunt you down). This allows some brushes with sexual concepts, but that usually also carries a risk of getting burned (chekhov's gun-'why introduce a spy organization if you don't have cloak and dagger stuff happen?'). As such, it somewhat fits the same 'enemy' concepts, but with a potential semi-friendly interactions.

It is only more recently that Paizo has started to dip its toes into more good and lawful areas. Some empyreal lords and such- the side deity stuff that often only gets glanced past- fluff more than anything. The closest we have to more mainstream is a cleric archetype (Sacred Attendant) that seems intended for Shelyn. Even if Shelyn touches on the concept, it is usually not quite to the extent as Calistria, adn definitely not as far as an evil deity.

So yes- Paizo isn't quite conformable enough with this kind of concept that they would stick it on the good-two-shoes class.

[Gisher]

An Immortal Lychee wrote:

You could make an oradin with the Bones mystery...

I'll show myself out.

Not the Wood Mystery?

I'll show myself out as well.

[lemeres]

Gisher wrote:

An Immortal Lychee wrote:

You could make an oradin with the Bones mystery...

I'll show myself out.

Not the Wood Mystery?

I'll show myself out as well.

If the paladin was female, then I'd suggest the waves mystery. Because she often gets w-

....wait, why are you pushing me out the door?

[Jurassic Pratt]

D4rtagnan wrote:

Alright so this is really starting to get out of hand. I did not ask if the nature of the actions was fall worthy or evil. I did not ask if I should do anything about him. (I have been playing with this group long enough tri know everyone conferblity levels.)

All I asked was if there was a funny or interesting Archtype I could suggest to a sex crazed Pali.

And that question was answered very early on in the thread as a no. I even suggested homebrewing your own since you have a very different type of Paladin from the base game.

And the responses you received that were worried that the game was out of hand were well deserved. The situation you described is sorta a common RPG horror story. If your players truly are all fine with it, that's great for y'all. But if you post about a paladin that "gropes" his fellow players, people are gonna assume that things aren't ok.

[Quibblethulhu]

Gisher wrote:

An Immortal Lychee wrote:

You could make an oradin with the Bones mystery...

I'll show myself out.

Not the Wood Mystery?

I'll show myself out as well.

As long as it's not the Godclaw mystery. Because who refers to their junk as "The Godclaw"? Gah...

[lemeres]

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

D4rtagnan wrote:

Alright so this is really starting to get out of hand. I did not ask if the nature of the actions was fall worthy or evil. I did not ask if I should do anything about him. (I have been playing with this group long enough tri know everyone conferblity levels.)

All I asked was if there was a funny or interesting Archtype I could suggest to a sex crazed Pali.

And that question was answered very early on in the thread as a no. I even suggested homebrewing your own since you have a very different type of Paladin from the base game.

And the responses you received that were worried that the game was out of hand were well deserved. The situation you described is sorta a common RPG horror story. If your players truly are all fine with it, that's great for y'all. But if you post about a paladin that "gropes" his fellow players, people are gonna assume that things aren't ok.

And the thing I brought up earlier is an issue- someone that says they are ok with it, but get progressively less ok with it once they see it in actual practice.

That possibility, combined with the surprise to our reactions... makes me think the nightmare may well become a reality. Everyone has different tolerance levels for that kind of stuff, and you have to be aware of that- being surprised by that is a recipe for disaster.

It is best to discuss it, try it out, and be ready to tone it down if someone gets creeped out. Make sure that everyone is ready and aware for a possible adjustment beforehand, because trying to do it on the fly when you find out just means you also have to deal with the frustrations of broken expectations and frustration over roadblocks in the session.

[PodTrooper]

D4rtagnan wrote:

Alright so this is really starting to get out of hand. I did not ask if the nature of the actions was fall worthy or evil. I did not ask if I should do anything about him. (I have been playing with this group long enough tri know everyone conferblity levels.)

All I asked was if there was a funny or interesting Archtype I could suggest to a sex crazed Pali.

D4rtagnan. I tried to address your question specifically, after responding to all the people bringing in side-issues.

The short answer, is I can't think of one. The paladin you describe is outside the box of what is expected the class (as I pointed out), so I don't think you will have much luck in published materials specifically for a paladin.

If you are sticking with paladin as a base, I would maybe search for an archetype or feat (?) that would grant a Domain and its powers. With that, you could use the Charm Domain abilities/spells (or sub-domain: lust?).
If you end up putting something together on your own, you can look to the domain powers, or possibly look to something like the Enchantment school to lift from.

[knightnday]

Without getting into the whole debate, you could always check some 3.5 supplements like The Book of Erotic Fantasy for inspiration for the character. Outside of those, I cannot think of anything current for Pathfinder on the subject.

[Loren Pechtel]

Akkurscid wrote:

When a Dentist gropes his patients, is it illegal?

When a Doctor gropes his patients is it unethical?
When a Massage Therapist gropes his clients is it actionable?
When a Paladin gropes his charges is it somehow different?

I understand in this case it is meant as a joke and maybe it's ok at this particular table. In general though sexual assault is not really a funny thing to be made light of.

All of these things are very wrong.

1) A dentist certainly touches their patients but not in a sexual way.

2) A doctor may touch genitals, but that's a deliberate examination, not a grope.

3) A massage therapist stays off the genitals. Happy ending massages are in sex work territory, not legitimate massage territory.

The paladin isn't any different, it's still wrong. In my book he would have fallen the first time he did it.

(And I'm not saying you can't have a sexualized paladin, although I question whether one could routinely hook up. The thing is most hookups are alcohol-fueled and to me that's pretty marginal for lawful--and paladins shouldn't be doing anything that's marginal for their alignment.)

[Loren Pechtel]

Mark Thomas 66 wrote:

Look up Roland. He is the Paladin prototype and was known for his drinking and whoring....pretty much legendary for it in his day. It's possible to be a holy warrior and a hornball but it has to be done with the best of intentions and not intentionally harm anyone, both physically and emotionally.

Groping people who don't want you to, definitely violates that. To play a "Mature" Paladin requires a mature player first and foremost.

I would have a problem with a paladin whoring. The reality of the worlds in which D&D/Pathfinder exists is that a lot of those whores aren't consenting. Unless the paladin is sure the woman is doing it of her own free will he absolutely should not partake. (Even in the modern world this is a substantial problem outside high class places.)

[CrystalSeas]

Loren Pechtel wrote:

I would have a problem with a paladin whoring. The reality of the worlds in which D&D/Pathfinder exists is that a lot of those whores aren't consenting. Unless the paladin is sure the woman is doing it of her own free will he absolutely should not partake. (Even in the modern world this is a substantial problem outside high class places.)

FTFY

[Jurassic Pratt]

A paladin visiting a calistrian temple, while very untypical, shouldn't be a problem imo.

[Jesse Heinig]

Sheesh. One word: Consent.

[CorvusMask]

D4rtagnan wrote:

Alright so this is really starting to get out of hand. I did not ask if the nature of the actions was fall worthy or evil. I did not ask if I should do anything about him. (I have been playing with this group long enough tri know everyone conferblity levels.)

All I asked was if there was a funny or interesting Archtype I could suggest to a sex crazed Pali.

At this point I think thread will refuse to go back to original topic, but hey at least you did get the answer "no not really" .-.

But yeah, seriously people, you do know its insulting to be like "HEY, I don't know how many years you have known your players, but we know your players and their comfort level better than GM does!"?

[doctor_wu]

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

A paladin visiting a calistrian temple, while very untypical, shouldn't be a problem imo.

Well paladins have the mercy ability to remove disease and it may prevent the spread of some to the rest of the community at a calistrian temple and that does involve touching to use lay on hands.

Sacred servenent paladin of arshea that gets acess to the lust subdomain but yes consent is important.

[lemeres]

Loren Pechtel wrote:

Mark Thomas 66 wrote:

Look up Roland. He is the Paladin prototype and was known for his drinking and whoring....pretty much legendary for it in his day. It's possible to be a holy warrior and a hornball but it has to be done with the best of intentions and not intentionally harm anyone, both physically and emotionally.

Groping people who don't want you to, definitely violates that. To play a "Mature" Paladin requires a mature player first and foremost.

I would have a problem with a paladin whoring. The reality of the worlds in which D&D/Pathfinder exists is that a lot of those whores aren't consenting. Unless the paladin is sure the woman is doing it of her own free will he absolutely should not partake. (Even in the modern world this is a substantial problem outside high class places.)

I think calistrian temples might be relatively safe in that regard.

...could forced sex trafficking really survive in a religion that focuses heavily on revenge? Theoretically, perhaps, but I would imagine any attempts would eventually explode in on itself.

It is a religion that is basically made entirely out of Old Town from Sin City.

[Here4daFreeSwag]

You seek the Book of Passion, yes? ;)

['Sani]

Prof. Löwenzahn wrote:

DM Beckett wrote:

People are way over reacting, and adding in their own hot buttonness to this.

Very true, this is political correctness and oversensitvity in the highest degree. How do you guys even manage to play a game where things such as succubi or a Demon Lord with the Portfolio of Nocticula exist?

By them being evil monsters that you stab in the face? It's very cathartic.

[DM Beckett]

Rysky wrote:

From Dictionary

grope wrote:

1) feel about or search blindly or uncertainly with the hands.

2) feel or fondle (someone) for sexual pleasure, especially against their will.

There is something right between "uncertainly with the hands." and "2)", that you seemed to have left out.

"Informal", meaning that 2) is not correct or not the official meaning, but is often misused in a given context.

Again, people are adding context to the OP and putting words and intentions into their post needlessly. There was no indication that said player was making anyone uncomfortable, and the question was obviously not asking for advice. We have no indication whatsoever how the group, in or out of character, feels about this. In fact, it seems to have been implied or stated more than once that that is not at all what the topic is about, and people keep insisting on trying to hijack it to be about that.

If there is an issue with players, (who gives a crap if they are male or female!!!) are having issues, that's a different story, but not one that this thread was about.

[Rysky]

That's not what informal means.

And even if it did, if everyone "misuses" it to mean that, then that's what it's meant at. If someone brings forth a problematic concept and mechanic questions, people are not going to ignore the problematic parts.

[Tarik Blackhands]

'Sani wrote:

Prof. Löwenzahn wrote:

DM Beckett wrote:

People are way over reacting, and adding in their own hot buttonness to this.

Very true, this is political correctness and oversensitvity in the highest degree. How do you guys even manage to play a game where things such as succubi or a Demon Lord with the Portfolio of Nocticula exist?

By them being evil monsters that you stab in the face? It's very cathartic.

Stab them? How absurd. We all know that Noct and Succubi in general both represent the supposedly irredeemable race of demons and how a kind hearted adventurer willing to work with them can awaken that spark of goodness in them and put them on the path of redemption!

And in exchange for that, they'd probably go and ask that adventurer out to prom for believing in them.

Weird how it's never a Hezrou or Pazuzu that get the redemption attempts.

[DM Beckett]

Rysky wrote:

That's not what informal means.

And even if it did, if everyone "misuses" it to mean that, then that's what it's meant at. If someone brings forth a problematic concept and mechanic questions, people are not going to ignore the problematic parts.

As with the synonyms, you had to have deliberately removed them from your copy/paste, which strongly implies you did not want to show those things because they conflicted with the point you (and others) are trying to make. That is not arguing in good faith, but attempting to mislead, especially considering that people have already stated that English is not their first language.

Obviously "everyone" does not misuse the word, but only some people, and being a <localized> majority does not make those people correct.

Weirdo wrote:

verb (used with object), groped, groping.
4. to touch or handle (someone) for sexual pleasure.
noun
6. Slang. an act or instance of sexually fondling another person.

Collins Dictionary wrote:
4. If one person gropes another, they touch or take hold of them in a rough, sexual way.

Cambridge Dictionary wrote:
informal to touch someone's body in order to get sexual pleasure, usually when the person does not like it

Notice how we had to get into later iterations of the word's definition to get to a sexualized meaning, and even then, no indication of "unwanted" touching except in one case?

[Rysky]

I did not bother listing that the commonly used definition of grope was "informal" because that's what people assume informal means. Common/casual. It's one of the first definitions that popped up, Dictionary.com and Wikipedia.

I didn't list the synonyms because i didn't feel a need to. The synonym for the "informal" grope? Fondle.

[Stereofm]

I think we are all missing the point here.

I see two issues : the first one : are all players at that table really aware of what's going on and are none of them uncomfortable with it ? If so, that's fine, even if obviously that's unusual, and many other tables would object (some of my players included). If not, there needs to be a serious talk with all involved. Nobody should feel uncomfortable at a table, whatever the reason.

The second point : would a paladin based around Demeter or other antiquity gods/godesses do that, and would other characters with similar backgrounds object ?

That's far from certain they would from a roleplaying pov : given how some cultures lived in antiquity (and I am especially thinking about the bacchanals), a lot of people of that time would probably think nothing of it. Worse was going on, on a daily basis.

Necessarily judging something or someone from our modern time values as good or evil (and saying the paladin should fall) is something of a trap. So PCs would not necessarily object, but still that is a serious matter of taste that should be discussed beforehand to make sure ALL of the players agree.

[K-kun the Insane]

Wow that's a lot of stuff that seems all hot button-ey. While I have no mechanical ideas for the OP for archetypes, I do have to wonder if any of the other responders ever horsed-around before? If you've been friends since childhood and as adults are now putting your lives in each other's hands, you're going to be a lot more comfortable and intimate with each other than coworkers or even really good friends. You're like family with all the hugs, fights, celebratory noogies, and surprise butt pinches that come with that. This stuff may be inappropriate for strangers/coworkers/friends to do, but family is always closer than that.

But of course even family can get uncomfortable, so you do have to be aware of their feelings and when it is/isn't the time for horsing-around.

[Ryan Freire]

K-kun the Insane wrote:

This stuff may be inappropriate for strangers/coworkers/friends to do, but family is always closer than that.

Yeah, lots of people's fiddly uncles and stepdads liked to horse around cause family is close.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Prof. Löwenzahn wrote:

Very true, this is political correctness and oversensitvity in the highest degree. How do you guys even manage to play a game where things such as succubi or a Demon Lord with the Portfolio of Nocticula exist?

well for starters i think we use a basic assumption that the demons and evil goddesses who dont respect consent are, yknow, the frikkin' bad guys.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Tarik Blackhands wrote:

Stab them? How absurd. We all know that Noct and Succubi in general both represent the supposedly irredeemable race of demons and how a kind hearted adventurer willing to work with them can awaken that spark of goodness in them and put them on the path of redemption!

I just...I just feel like I could change her, you know?

[Sara Marie]

I removed some posts. I have to run out for a bit, but I will address the post removal and locking when I get back.

[Sara Marie]

Posts on paizo.com are publicly viewable which means that in addition to the original poster and persons engaging in conversations in a thread, other people may continue to read and seek answers that they can apply to their own games for years to come. Because of the nature of the forums, sometimes questions may be answered to cover more than the original poster may be intending to ask about.

Within the gaming community, there is a very pervasive problem where gamers, particularly women, have unsolicited, unwelcome and non-consensual advances made towards them (directly or by proxy of their characters) during games. In a thread such as this where the subject involves sexual content at the gaming table, community members are welcome to clarify strategies to make sure that any in-game sexual references are consensual with all players. This helps the community (present and future) normalize consent and creates a more welcoming environment for all gamers.

That being said, its important to recognize when an issue has been fully covered and move side conversations or tangential issues you wish to continue to discuss to another thread.

Additionally, please remember: just because your home group is okay with a particular kind of adult content does not mean it is going to be appropriate for discussion on paizo.com.

"Feminazi" is a derogatory term and is not appropriate for paizo.com.

[Sara Marie]

This thread is going to remain locked.