Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Matt2VK wrote: Archpaladin Zousha wrote: Okay, so I'm struggling to pick my skills. I've got Life Science from Scholar and I'm thinking of picking Culture and Survival for my Skill Adept skills, since those lend themselves to being a Starfinder.
The problem is, I don't think I have enough skill ranks to cover all the bases. Life Science is probably a given and so should Perception, but then if I take Diplomacy, Intimidate and Sense Motive to be the Party Face, I won't have enough ranks for other stuff like Athletics or Acrobatics, or for Survival or Mysticism...I'm stuck again.
Real question is -
What are you going to do in Starship combat?
The jobs and skills used for Starship combat is kind of narrow and limited. A Solorian is almost always going to be second best for any of the positions open for starship combat but the Solorian can do any of those jobs. The Solorian just needs to choose the appropriate skills, make them class skills, then put ranks in those skills.
I usually like science officers (computers) or engineer. Both of these jobs can have more then one person and can give different bonuses for combat. Considering there’s a Technomancer and Mechanic on the crew those are both covered. Since I have the best Charisma I’ll probably end up in the Captain spot whether I act leaderly or not! :D
Something I’m pondering, more for flavor reasons than anything else, is just what my Scholar specialization should be. If I make it Life Science so I have it as a class skill, I cant really think of a biological science that makes sense for a Solarian to be interested in. Physical Science at least has astronomy, which is directly related to the Solarian’s philosophical origins, which is appropriate considering Solarians already have PS as a class skill. What LS specialization night appeal to my character?
Archpaladin Zousha wrote: Considering there’s a Technomancer and Mechanic on the crew those are both covered. Since I have the best Charisma I’ll probably end up in the Captain spot whether I act leaderly or not! :D Then definitely grab Diplomacy and Intimidate, they'll serve you well.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote: Something I’m pondering, more for flavor reasons than anything else, is just what my Scholar specialization should be. If I make it Life Science so I have it as a class skill, I cant really think of a biological science that makes sense for a Solarian to be interested in. Physical Science at least has astronomy, which is directly related to the Solarian’s philosophical origins, which is appropriate considering Solarians already have PS as a class skill. What LS specialization night appeal to my character? Life Science is the study of living things and how they work. Biology or Xenobiology seem possibilities from a philosophical 'all creatures are part of the universe' perspective, as does Ecology. All three would also make sense with wanting to understand various species so you could better help them.
Deadmanwalking wrote: Archpaladin Zousha wrote: Considering there’s a Technomancer and Mechanic on the crew those are both covered. Since I have the best Charisma I’ll probably end up in the Captain spot whether I act leaderly or not! :D Then definitely grab Diplomacy and Intimidate, they'll serve you well.
Archpaladin Zousha wrote: Something I’m pondering, more for flavor reasons than anything else, is just what my Scholar specialization should be. If I make it Life Science so I have it as a class skill, I cant really think of a biological science that makes sense for a Solarian to be interested in. Physical Science at least has astronomy, which is directly related to the Solarian’s philosophical origins, which is appropriate considering Solarians already have PS as a class skill. What LS specialization night appeal to my character? Life Science is the study of living things and how they work. Biology or Xenobiology seem possibilities from a philosophical 'all creatures are part of the universe' perspective, as does Ecology. All three would also make sense with wanting to understand various species so you could better help them. If you grab Xenobiology, it'll help you know where to put the sharp pointy end of your solorian weapon into those alien bodies.
Question, just leveled up to level 3, and I have 2500 credits to spare
If I get a mk 1 ugprade, I'll have 1100 credits left
what heavy armor should I get?
If you can get the level+2, I like the level 5 armor -
Lashunta Ringwear II for 2970 credits. +8 EAC, +10 KAC
Does suffer with a max dex modifier with +2 but for price wise, I think it's the best buy around that level range.
Well I currently only have 2500 credits so I couldnt afford the lashunta ringwear
and I'd rather get the str upgrade which would leave me 1100 credits for armor
Matt2VK wrote: If you can get the level+2, I like the level 5 armor -
Lashunta Ringwear II for 2970 credits. +8 EAC, +10 KAC
Does suffer with a max dex modifier with +2 but for price wise, I think it's the best buy around that level range.
If you are going for the Lashunta Ringwear II, then you are in Heavy Armor anyway, what are you doing with a higher dex than 15 at level 5 anyway?
Im kinda stuck between the defiance squad series or the thinplate armor, though I could get golemforged II but I would have to borrow credits from the rest of the party
thoughts anyone?
Without my books and kind of wondering -
If you take Soldier at 1st level, Is there a reason to have a CHA above 10 (or 12)?
I know it helps with the DC of certain offensive revelations and the duration of some powers. Just wondering if it's really needed.
Nope. If you stick with revelations that don't have a DC/to hit (pretty doable) Charisma is only as useful as your investment in face skills.
That said, having a useless level save DC on Supernova is still pretty rough and Supernova is excellent.
Matt2VK wrote: Without my books and kind of wondering -
If you take Soldier at 1st level, Is there a reason to have a CHA above 10 (or 12)?
I know it helps with the DC of certain offensive revelations and the duration of some powers. Just wondering if it's really needed.
You really don't want to gimp your Supernova.
I can attest to that
having the DC of your supernova as high as possible is always a goodthing
failed saves mean more damage done
At level 3 my attack combo was:
Round 1:
Attune Photon 1 - Move - If needed charge (Stellar Rush) - Attack. - Typical damage 1d6+6 (avg 9-10)
Round 2:
Attune Photon 2 - Full attack if able - 1d6+6/1d6+6 (avg 19)
Round 3:
Attune Photon 3 - If opponent was nearly dead - Move (if needed) - Supernova (4d6) (avg 14 to all enemies in a 10 ft radius)
avg damage in 3 rounds (assuming all attacks hit): 41 damage.
Comparing that to PC health assuming a 0 con modifier:
HP: (25) 4+7+7+7
SP: (21) 7+7+7
Giving PCs at that level around 46 total health before dropping, this combo proved quite effective. I maintained a similar output through level 5 which granted me:
Round 1: Avg 11-12
Round 2: Avg 23
Round 3: Avg 21
Avg: 55 dmg
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My Supernova consistently was able to do damage on par with both sections of a full attack hitting. Enemies that saved against it still on average took comparable to a single attack hitting, but I had no chance of missing.
So yes, you want Supernova. It is extremely efficient unless you are fighting a single enemy and have a consistent way to hit with both attacks off of a full attack.
It does start falling out of favor a bit around level 6 however.
The bump in weapon damage at that point for the solar weapon:
2d6+1d4+10 (avg 20-21) or 40-42 did spike up higher than the average of Supernova's 24-25.
When I first looked at Supernova, I also thought it was wonderful...Then I played the first AP.
A good chunk of the encounters there just isn't room to do a Supernova without hitting your party members. While it was doable, you'd end up taking a AO from moving away from being in melee and then you'd only be able to tag one bad guy. Just not worth it in my opinion.
how close are your friends? because I have a similar issue (only the ranged soldier intentionally gets into the frontline to try and meatshield) and he ended up getting fried when we were cornered by some cultist (granted I did give him warning but he didnt listen)
supernova is a toss up to use if your allies are close by
MagicA wrote: how close are your friends? because I have a similar issue (only the ranged soldier intentionally gets into the frontline to try and meatshield) and he ended up getting fried when we were cornered by some cultist (granted I did give him warning but he didnt listen)
supernova is a toss up to use if your allies are close by
Most Piazo adventures use a 'set' template so they can sell their maps. So almost all AP, modules, & adventures use these templates. So you have lots and lots of corridors and rooms.
A 10' burst centered on you (which get's larger as you level) means most rooms you'll end up covering a good chunk of that room.
Well I havent played an AP but that does sound like an issue in society play
Something that might interest fellow Solarians - I am asking for clarification in the Rules section of the forums.
Black Hole, as by RAW, looks like it can pull incorporeal creatures through walls and floors. Only debate is if you actually need to see the creature to use this power on them.
Sounds like a novelty if it does work. Maybe it's just late, but I don't see the use unless ghosts with machineguns firing through walls is a common encounter.
well if they tried shooting from the walls
the bullets would just hit the walls from the inside
Not if they shoot GHOST BULLETS!
but wouldnt ghost bullets only deal partial damage to corporeal creatures?
Beats me, but partial damage is still enough to get everyone dead eventually even if that's how it works.
fair point
personally I'd say yeah you can pull in incorporeal people with the blackhole
smart incorporeal like to use hit and run tactics by hiding in walls/floor. Pulling them out of those hiding spots so the rest of the party can take a shot at them is gold.
Probably wont happen often but when it does, can mess up the incorporeals day.
true
its one of the few examples where blackhole is actually really useful
MagicA wrote: true
its one of the few examples where blackhole is actually really useful
After 3 rounds of combat and if the enemy fails their save.
I've said this time and again, I've run the numbers and the math, Black Hole is NEVER actually good and isn't even all that useful in specific situations because it doesn't have a high chance to work.
in the case taht if incorporeal are in the walls, pulling them out of the walls for the others to hit them is a good idea in my book
MagicA wrote: in the case taht if incorporeal are in the walls, pulling them out of the walls for the others to hit them is a good idea in my book
If it even works.
Again, requires full attunement.
The enemy has to fail the save.
And we are assuming it works through walls which would make it work unlike any other AoE in the game.
There are way too many ifs.
that is a fair concern
but incorporeal creatures arent affected by energy attacks as much as regular creatures
does supernova work through walls?
HWalsh wrote: MagicA wrote: in the case taht if incorporeal are in the walls, pulling them out of the walls for the others to hit them is a good idea in my book
If it even works.
Again, requires full attunement.
The enemy has to fail the save.
And we are assuming it works through walls which would make it work unlike any other AoE in the game.
There are way too many ifs. It is unlike any other AoE in the game. It explicitly states in the Black Hole power description:
CRB, page 103 wrote: When you’re fully graviton-attuned, as a standard action, you can pull any number of creatures within 20 feet of you closer. You choose which creatures are affected and which ones aren’t. Each target must succeed at a Fortitude save or be pulled 10 feet toward you. The range of this revelation and the distance pulled increase by 5 feet at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter. Solid objects do not block this ability, but any creature that runs into a solid object ceases moving closer to you. Emphasis mine. I'm not sure what else "Solid objects do not block this ability" could mean other than it works through walls, floors and ceilings. Given the incorporeal enemy is hiding in the wall in the first place, I don't think they'll stop when they "run into a solid object" because they can't run into solid objects.
As for attunement, either you have it or you don't. If your not Graviton attuned, you don't do it. If you are, you use the power. In some theoretical long drawn out fight against incorporeal creatures being highly defensive inside walls, it is not unreasonable to assume you'll have a chance to reach full Graviton attunement at least once in the fight.
As for needing a die roll with roughly 40% to 60% odds of success, that is true of nearly any offensive action in the game (including attacking). Out of curiosity, do you consider all spells that Mystics and Technomancers cast that can be negated on a successful save to be unusable? A melee Solarian can easily have save DCs only 1-2 less than a Mystic's or Technomancer's highest level spells. A dedicated Solarian "caster" can in principle match the casting classes best saves against every enemy. While still being respectable (no longer best in game) in melee combat.
Matt2VK wrote: Black Hole, as by RAW, looks like it can pull incorporeal creatures through walls and floors. Only debate is if you actually need to see the creature to use this power on them. Line of effect is taken care of, by the clause where solid objects do not stop the power. Line of Sight is not necessary to pick a target apparently. At least under the Tactical Rules, Target section, there is no mention of line of sight.
CRB, page 272 wrote: TARGET
Some effects have a target or targets. You use these effects on
creatures or objects, as defined by the effect itself. You must
have line of effect (see page 271) to the target or targets of an
effect you wish to use, and you must specifically choose the
target or targets. If the effect takes a certain amount of time
to activate (such as the casting time of a spell), you do not
have to select your target or targets until you finish activating
the effect.
It explicitly only calls out line of effect. Specifically choosing could simply be, I target everyone in every square within X feet in all directions. Given there is no attack roll, there is no miss chance. So everyone in each square, if present, would need to make a saving throw.
Its just like choosing to cast an attack spell like Telekinetic projectile to attack a creature in a square that is completely dark due to lack of light. You don't have line of sight, but you do have line of effect.
Hiruma Kai wrote: HWalsh wrote: MagicA wrote: in the case taht if incorporeal are in the walls, pulling them out of the walls for the others to hit them is a good idea in my book
If it even works.
Again, requires full attunement.
The enemy has to fail the save.
And we are assuming it works through walls which would make it work unlike any other AoE in the game.
There are way too many ifs. It is unlike any other AoE in the game. It explicitly states in the Black Hole power description:
CRB, page 103 wrote: When you’re fully graviton-attuned, as a standard action, you can pull any number of creatures within 20 feet of you closer. You choose which creatures are affected and which ones aren’t. Each target must succeed at a Fortitude save or be pulled 10 feet toward you. The range of this revelation and the distance pulled increase by 5 feet at 5th level and every 4 levels thereafter. Solid objects do not block this ability, but any creature that runs into a solid object ceases moving closer to you. Emphasis mine. I'm not sure what else "Solid objects do not block this ability" could mean other than it works through walls, floors and ceilings. Given the incorporeal enemy is hiding in the wall in the first place, I don't think they'll stop when they "run into a solid object" because they can't run into solid objects.
As for attunement, either you have it or you don't. If your not Graviton attuned, you don't do it. If you are, you use the power. In some theoretical long drawn out fight against incorporeal creatures being highly defensive inside walls, it is not unreasonable to assume you'll have a chance to reach full Graviton attunement at least once in the fight.
As for needing a die roll with roughly 40% to 60% odds of success, that is true of nearly any offensive action in the game (including attacking). Out of curiosity, do you consider all spells that Mystics and Technomancers cast that can be negated on a successful save to be unusable? A melee Solarian... Anything that already has a VERY trivial effect (like black hole), that also requires full attunement, that also can be completely negated?
Yes. It is unusable.
No "spellcaster" deals with that many "if" clauses in their repertoire.
Black Hole is the worst Solarian ability bar none.
Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
I just think that a graviton build is not about using their zenith every time it becomes available. The patient, tactical playstyle thrives on those "if" clauses.
KingOfAnything wrote: I just think that a graviton build is not about using their zenith every time it becomes available. The patient, tactical playstyle thrives on those "if" clauses. My Blastarian is Graviton built, it uses its Revelations constantly. It uses it's Zenith's constantly. Just not Black Hole.
Isn't a key traditional feature of incorporeals that they are immune to, uh, gravity?
If incorporeals are immune to gravity then graviton powers are really gimped
MagicA wrote: If incorporeals are immune to gravity then graviton powers are really gimped From Incorporeal's Description:
"Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage have only a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits."
So... In order for Black Hole to work on an incorporeal target you must meet the following requirements:
1. You must be fully Graviton Attuned.
2. You must roll, and have a 50% chance of effecting the entity.
3. The Incorporeal target must fail the Saving Throw.
At which point you can move them a few squares closer to you.
Of course, they're just going to move back into the wall on their next move action, but...
ok then
I eat my words
black hole really has no applications
MagicA wrote: ok then
I eat my words
black hole really has no applications
It is, hands down, the worst Solarian ability.
The *one* use of it that might be viable is using it with Blazing Orbit.
However, even that... Not so much.
People assume that for every square they drag someone they take the Blazing Orbit damage. That isn't how Blazing Orbit works. You can leave all the squares you want, they only take damage for coming into contact with the flames. Doesn't matter if it is 1 square or 20 squares it is a one time deal.
Other than that, aside from pulling people out of cover for *one* round, and I don't think cover is going to be all that common to be honest, it doesn't do much.
If it did something like:
"Move targets 20 feet and cause them to stay in that square for 1d4 turns on a failed save, and move targets 20 feet on a successful save."
Then Black Hole would be useful.
There *are* some other situational situations as well...
I mean, if you are fighting at the edge of a pit, you could use it to draw enemies into the pit... That is useful... Though exceptionally situational.
It has also been confirmed by Owen K.C. Stevens that we can add fusions to crystals!
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ukv9&page=1?FAQ-Request-Can-You-Put-a-Fusi on-on-a
See the above thread.
Soldiers actually can get +2 KAC and +1EAC over Solarians presuming both are using heavy armor (Armored Advantage for +1 KAC and Guard Spec for +1 max Dex).
They're basically matched in Light Armor (assuming solar armor) although Solarians will end up with +1 EAC. At least I think. Pretty sure I didn't miss anything
Edit: Forgot about Grav Shield. Changes the math slightly, but still edge goes to soldiers due to Graviton being less user friendly overall for Sols
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Maximum Solarian Damage is weapon damage code:
+9 Strength (technically possible, but I don't know why you would)
+4 Photon Attunement
+10 Plasma Sheath
+10 Deadly Aim
+20 Weapon Specialization
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Maximum Soldier Damage is weapon damage code:
+9 Strength
+4 Melee Striker (Gear Boost)
+? Against all odds - This one requires fighting multiple enemies of equal to or greater than your CR. So it can potentially add damage.
+10 Deadly Aim
+20 Weapon Specialization
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In order for the Soldier to match the Solarian damage they would have to be facing 5 enemies of equal level that all would have to be within 10 feet of the Soldier.
So... Tell me again how "all these threads" say this, when I have calculated every single class's maximum possible damage and have come out with the mathematical maximum damage in the game.
Technically the maximum possible damage is:
12d10 +9 +4 +10 +10 +20 or 10d12+53f - Though I still prefer 18d6 + 52f easier to get to, doesn't hurt your spread as much to get.
I mean, again, it is possible for a Soldier, if they have 6 enemies within 10 feet of equal to or greater CR to get higher than this... But those situations are going to be exceedingly rare.
Edit: To add...
As far as armor goes:
The highest EAC/KAC a Soldier can get to is:
42/43 (with Heavy Armor and a Phase Shield)
40/41 (with Light Armor)
The highest EAC/KAC a Solarian can get is:
42/42 (with Heavy Armor and a Phase Shield)
43/43 (with Light Armor, Solar Armor, and Gravity Shield - in some circumstances this can be raised to 46/46)
So, while it is possible to get higher KAC (by 1) by a Soldier, they will make sacrifices to do this that a Solarian won't. Also note that while a Soldier can get 42/43 with a Phase Shield, they need to have 3 or more arms or they lose out on maximum damage. A Solarian can utilize the 18d6+53f damage code with only using 1 arm, still having 1 remaining for the shield.
So, whatever you read in other threads is incorrect.
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Zombie Jesus wrote: But put all that aside, because even if they were true, it doesn't really matter. Poor game design is poor game design, for the above described reasons. So you are basically saying because the Solarian doesn't use Dex to-hit and damage, that Solar Weapon does 1d6 damage at 1st level, and because its key stat is Charisma, it was poorly designed?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying the correct way to design Solarians is make the Solar Weapon base damage larger (like 1d8, next step up), make them Dexterity based for to-hit and damage, and use Dexterity as their key stat.
Lets see, at 1st level, that results in a melee class focusing on Dex, dealing +5 to hit, 1d8+5 damage, with EAC/KAC of around 15/16, maxed save DCs (14), maximized initiative (+4), and maximum resolve points (5).
At 6th level, you're doing something like +11 to hit, 2d8+1d4+13 (average 24.5) damage, EAC/KAC of 21/23, save DCs of 18, initiative +5.
At 6th level, a Mystic has at best 3 spells per day with a DC 18, and a Technomancer has at most 4.
Similarly, a 6th level Soldier has at most a +11 to hit, 1d12+13 (average 19.5) damage. EAC/KAC of 22/24 in heavy armor, initiative +3.
So you've got a class as good as an optimized Technomancer or Mystic in terms of abilities (DC 18 save or be stunned is pretty good with Crush, or save and be dazed or run away with Hypnotic Glow, or save and be blinded by Flare), as well as better damage than Soldier, maximized initiative to go first, all at the cost of 1 point of AC (but in exchange is faster than said soldier). Also, since they are Dex based now, they can pump Dex, Con, Int and Wis now, and have the best saves in the game along with maximizing their skills. Edit: Also, since they are Dex based, they are 2 feats away from being equally good with Longarms as with melee, and 3 feats away from heavy weapons.
If you change the design choices you feel the developers made in error, I feel you'll wind up with something with some serious balance issues compared to other classes.
I certainly would not call the base Solarian design a failure, as all examples of the class in play I have seen have worked fine. I can see reasons why they made certain design choices. Even the Charisma as a key ability score.
Hiruma Kai wrote: Zombie Jesus wrote: But put all that aside, because even if they were true, it doesn't really matter. Poor game design is poor game design, for the above described reasons. So you are basically saying because the Solarian doesn't use Dex to-hit and damage, that Solar Weapon does 1d6 damage at 1st level, and because its key stat is Charisma, it was poorly designed?
Please correct me if I'm wrong, you're saying the correct way to design Solarians is make the Solar Weapon base damage larger (like 1d8, next step up), make them Dexterity based for to-hit and damage, and use Dexterity as their key stat.
Lets see, at 1st level, that results in a melee class focusing on Dex, dealing +5 to hit, 1d8+5 damage, with EAC/KAC of around 15/16, maxed save DCs (14), maximized initiative (+4), and maximum resolve points (5).
At 6th level, you're doing something like +11 to hit, 2d8+1d4+13 (average 24.5) damage, EAC/KAC of 21/23, save DCs of 18, initiative +5.
At 6th level, a Mystic has at best 3 spells per day with a DC 18, and a Technomancer has at most 4.
Similarly, a 6th level Soldier has at most a +11 to hit, 1d12+13 (average 19.5) damage. EAC/KAC of 22/24 in heavy armor, initiative +3.
So you've got a class as good as an optimized Technomancer or Mystic in terms of abilities (DC 18 save or be stunned is pretty good with Crush, or save and be dazed or run away with Hypnotic Glow, or save and be blinded by Flare), as well as better damage than Soldier, maximized initiative to go first, all at the cost of 1 point of AC (but in exchange is faster than said soldier). Also, since they are Dex based now, they can pump Dex, Con, Int and Wis now, and have the best saves in the game along with maximizing their skills. Edit: Also, since they are Dex based, they are 2 feats away from being equally good with Longarms as with melee, and 3 feats away from heavy weapons.
If you change the design choices you feel the developers made in error, I feel you'll wind up with something with some... Agreed. Heck my group think Solarians are OP'ed as it is given that I lead in damage and kills by far.
I think real question is what fusions are beatifically to solarian besides ghost touch and severe wound.We already have good damage so we just need couple of elemental ones keep dealing damage since plasma sheath wont help in long run due more monsters gonna get fire resistance or immunity solarian gonna need different elements to keep the damage going
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