Reprint versus REPRINT


General Discussion


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I seem to remember the Pathfinder CRB being updated pretty rapidly in the first few years of its release. I presume the current reprint of the Starfinder CRB will be a reprint of the first printing as it would be too early to incorporate any changes to the text.

I can appreciate it's not the sort of thing you'd provide a timeframe for, but do you plan to do a full errata/editted second printing relatively soon (as you did with Pathfinder)? Or was that more trouble than it was worth and updates to the Starfinder CRB are going to be more in line with the rate that the PF CRB is updated nowadays?

An alternative way to frame the question: Is the slowdown in PFCRB revisions purely a function of its maturity? Or have you shifted policy in terms of how often you revise Core books?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Second printing what now.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
captain yesterday wrote:
Second printing what now.

I don't quite understand this, but presumably my OP wasn't very clear.

As I understand things, they have ordered another run of Starfinder books due to selling way more than they expected (even though they haven't yet sold out).

I assume these will be identical to the first run and will be labelled "first printing" in the front as Paizo's practise is to only update that designation when the text has been revised.

I remember the Pathfinder Core Book went through many revisions early on in its life, but that the pace of revisions (where the 'printing number' is updated) has slowed considerably, even though they are still regularly placing new orders with the printer.

My question was whether the slowdown in PFCRB is solely due to the fact the book has been thoroughly revised six times and so most of the glaring errors have been caught (I'm sure that's one factor) or whether they've changed their philosophy on reprinting/revisions.

Basically, I'm curious whether I'm going to see a second printing of the Starfinder Core Book sooner rather than later (without actually asking them to define what "sooner" or "later" would entail).

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Steve, as you know, we don't generally provide advance notice before releasing a reprint that incorporates new errata, as doing so could cause prospective buyers to delay their purchase until we start selling the new version, which would then cause stores to take longer to sell through the previous printing, meaning it could actually delay the release of the reprint.

On the other hand, if we tell you every time there *aren't* changes coming, while never saying anything when there *are*, then our silence would become an indication that there are changes on the way, and that would put us in the "delay" situation described in the first paragraph. So we won't normally provide advance notice of that either.

In this case, though, it seems likely that most retailers will have sold through their first printing copies by the time the reprint arrives, so it's not actually possible to be in the "delay" situation—as soon as this shipment comes in, a lot of it is going right back out. It's therefore safe to tell you that we did not make any changes to the book for this reprint. (For reasons I'm not yet at liberty to explain, it's possible that the reprint may actually be labeled "Second Printing" inside, but that would be the only change between the two print runs.)

As for when we might incorporate errata into a future printing, I have to point you back to the first paragraph: if that were to happen, we would likely only say so when it would begin shipping to stores.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Vic Wertz wrote:
Steve, as you know...

Oh, he knows, Vic. He knows.....

-Skeld


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Cheers, Vic. Not an unexpected response. :)

Sorry for asking a question that can't be answered (again!) - I was really more curious about any change in philosophy overall rather than when this particular book would be reprinted (it seemed way too early for you to have made any substantive changes anyhow).

PS - I am intrigued by the exception though! I'll keep my ears open for when you are at liberty!

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Taking a wild guess, i'd speculate it has to do with finding out if the 'second printing' has a better binding.

Imagine in three months time, if there is another increase of failing bindings and both printings are reading 'first printing'.

Now how do you know if it's the real first printing and this is another issue with the binding, seperate from the initial woes, or if it's from the second print run?

Usually, if Paizo does another print-run of an unchanged book, it wouldn't matter all that much, which particular print-run one particular issue arises from. Print defects and binding issues from the previous run should have been caught already, and if the new run has those issues it will show once it's going out of the warehouse.

But with both print-runs so close in time, I can see it being a cause for the 'second printing'-label, even if the content hasn't changed.

Anyway, that's just speculation on my part.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Pretty good theory. :)

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Yeah, that's pretty much it. We'll be writing up a blog on all this, probably next week.


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For all the complaints of the bindings, people need to realize that Paizo is a writing company, not a printing company. They contract out the printing of the books, and the binding issues are the fault of the printing company.

Even then, we need to look at the defect rate. I've seen about 10-20 complaints for bindings. Let's assume the real rate is closer to 100-200.

If we assume 10,000 copies of the SF CRB was made for Print 1, then that's a defect rate of 1%. My company aims for a defect rate of 0.9%, and we're considered one of the best in the world for our products. If Paizo is hitting similar marks, they should be applauded for their success.

In addition, Paizo (like my company) has a 100% response rate for trying to meet customer satisfaction. They've responded to every single request for binding failure and have tried to replace it. That's absolutely amazing.

Think about the response rate for a car failure by a major company. Have you ever got a lemon car? How was your customer experience? I've never heard a good story coming out of Ford or Toyota or any other car company for failure rates.

Paizo has damn good customer service, and they need to be applauded for it.


Bookrat works for GM confirmed.

The Exchange

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bookrat wrote:

For all the complaints of the bindings, people need to realize that Paizo is a writing company, not a printing company. They contract out the printing of the books, and the binding issues are the fault of the printing company.

Even then, we need to look at the defect rate. I've seen about 10-20 complaints for bindings. Let's assume the real rate is closer to 100-200.

If we assume 10,000 copies of the SF CRB was made for Print 1, then that's a defect rate of 1%. My company aims for a defect rate of 0.9%, and we're considered one of the best in the world for our products. If Paizo is hitting similar marks, they should be applauded for their success.

I will be curious to see what the real defect rate turns out to be. In my gaming group the failure rate has been 100%, even after a replacement (it failed too). I am waiting to file my claim with Paizo once I hear the problem is fixed. I doubt I'm alone.

That said, I also applaud Paizo and their customer service. It is completely top-notch and way above and beyond the norm.

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