Are grenades worth it?


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I think in general most people are probably not going to buy a lot of grenades. Some cheap smoke grenades are handy in a lot of situations and pretty cheap but for actual damage dealing ones bombard soldiers and engineers who can rig random pistols and what not they get off bad guys are the main ones who will use them somewhat frequently.

There are situations where being able to do AOE damage do a specific area that has cover from direct fire could be very handy.

They also make pretty good random loot for GM consumables that probably get used up during the adventure are pretty good things to let people have.


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Wealth by level might not be the best statistic, but I think the wealth by encounter numbers are pretty telling too.

A frag grenade III costs 2560 credits. A CR8 encounter is supposed to award about 5400 credits. So throwing a single grenade eats nearly half the money you'd earn back in that same level encounter. That's pretty brutal.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

not sure if there worth it but one of my players loved tossing them around


Vidmaster7 wrote:
How about a grenade that disintegrates people when they pick it up but remains intact itself?

Cave Bro: It's called.. a Light Grenade! Whoever picks it up - POOF - disappears!

E.D.: That's stupid, who would pick it up?

Cave Bro: Aha! (turns grenade around to reveal a placard that reads PICK ME UP)

E.D.: .....


A technomancer who isn't focused on damaging spells can make pretty good use of lower level grenades + empowered weapon with a grenade launcher. One spell slot for more accuracy and higher damage.

Or use Spell Grenade to make touch attacks at range. Who cares what the damage is, when your able to do 18d8 damage from ranged to any one creature within the blast radius?


Helot_Commander wrote:

A technomancer who isn't focused on damaging spells can make pretty good use of lower level grenades + empowered weapon with a grenade launcher. One spell slot for more accuracy and higher damage.

Or use Spell Grenade to make touch attacks at range. Who cares what the damage is, when your able to do 18d8 damage from ranged to any one creature within the blast radius?

I mean, we know smoke grenades are useful, and these are basically clever and compelling reasons to use more smoke grenades. This thread is about higher level grenades, and how bad they are for their cost.

It's even worse when you look at grenade arrows, of course. If you ever meet someone wielding high-level grenade arrows, make absolutely sure you loot the body.


Honestly, I'm not sure I'd bother using grenade arrows even if they were just given to me. Level-5? When grenades were already on the low end for weapon damage due to no spec? Ouch.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ikiry0 wrote:
Honestly, I'm not sure I'd bother using grenade arrows even if they were just given to me. Level-5? When grenades were already on the low end for weapon damage due to no spec? Ouch.

i suspect a lot of players will use the ones they find in game more then buy them

excluding characters based around them in some way


Has the designer spoken his mind on the issue on some blog or here in the forums?

Seems like an interesting issue to see what the Starfinder Development team thought and if the prices are some sort of misjudgement that is going to change in the next errata or something that was well thought.


No, I don't think the prices are a "misjudgment". I believe the intention is not to let grenades become the solution all the time.

Think of it like this, if the whole party throws two level appropriate grenades to open up combat, and if enemies are clumped together you have a very high chance of winning round 1, no contest.

At level 10 thats 8 frag grenades doing 6d6, or 60d6 for an average of 210 damage to anything caught in all the blasts.

They had to set the prices high enough so that this was never a viable strategy. Even in a "boss fight".

I believe the intention is not so much for players to purchase a lot of grenades, but rather to find grenades as loot and then use them (because selling loot doesn't have nearly the rate of return it did in Pathfidner).


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

That's pretty terrible math. 8*6d6=48d6 not 60d6. And assuming every bad guy fails every reflex save after you reduce the save DC by 4 for full attacking is a bit over optimistic. Consider the DC will be Dex+5+10-4 (lets be generous and say your party a 20 average dex so DC16) and then reduced the DC by 4 if they aren't proficient with grenades (but we will assume they all are) and the average level 10 combatant will get +12 to his reflex save. So they save for half damage (if no one has evasion) 85% of the time.

Is it more damage than if they all walked around with shock casters at 2d10+10 (assuming proficiency and specialization) per shot, save for half. Sure, but its fairly close... and you get functionally unlimited shots from the shockcaster at a fraction of the cost.


My only beef against smoke grenades is as written the usage is poor.

If you are using a smoke grenades for concealment you are should throw it in front of the person you want concealment from. It blocks a wider portion of their vision and doesn't immediately define where you are or where you are going that way.

Basically it should work more like a tower shield, or wall edge giving cover in Starfinder terms for the square/grid section it lands in for everyone trying to shoot through it.

Instead it grants cover for those in the smoke but not from them. It's possibly more helpful than hindering since armor can provide protection from the environmental hazard.


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For some reason this thread has inspired the idea of a "grenade chicken coup" model for starships, where a bunch of android chickens produce a set amount of grenades per mission for the party to use. What could possibly go wrong with such an idea...

...you know, aside from causing asphyxiation due to laughter on people who think about all the possible ways such an idea could go wrong. Now if you excuse me I need to go find an oxygen tank.


Maezer wrote:

That's pretty terrible math. 8*6d6=48d6 not 60d6. And assuming every bad guy fails every reflex save after you reduce the save DC by 4 for full attacking is a bit over optimistic. Consider the DC will be Dex+5+10-4 (lets be generous and say your party a 20 average dex so DC16) and then reduced the DC by 4 if they aren't proficient with grenades (but we will assume they all are) and the average level 10 combatant will get +12 to his reflex save. So they save for half damage (if no one has evasion) 85% of the time.

Is it more damage than if they all walked around with shock casters at 2d10+10 (assuming proficiency and specialization) per shot, save for half. Sure, but its fairly close... and you get functionally unlimited shots from the shockcaster at a fraction of the cost.

It's not terrible math, I just assumed a 5 person party because that's the number of players in my group. Which was admittedly something I should have stated since most people assume a 4 person party, mea culpa.

And again, the point isn't about whether or not they save, but just the over whelming potential for damage is something they have to carefully avoid.


So i am going to be upfront, i have only skimmed this thread. That being said, is there an easy answer of "whole party chucks grenades" vs. "Whole party invests in explosive heavy weapons"? I get the grenades would be higher alpha strike damage but moving the win button from round 1 to round 2 doesnt seem like that much of a loss.


Starfinder Superscriber

The two ways to balance grenades would have been cost, or collateral damage. The design team chose cost likely because it is simpler, and less likely to result in angry or dead PCs.

Option One: Grenades cost a lot, but generally work like a spell anyone can use.

Option Two: Grenades are cheap, but they blow holes in spaceships, destroy walls, destroy equipment in the room, result in friendly casualties without thick total cover, cause deafness (temporary or permanent), destroy loot and so on.

The net effect is the same. PCs will likely only use grenades when the situation really demands it.

As some above have pointed out, there's nothing stopping a GM from giving out grenades as loot to keep the wealth hit down. Many of the SFS scenarios have done this. I probably wouldn't even count looted grenades as WBL provided they keep them. Not everything can work like real life and be fun :-)


So I have heard of people using the underbarrel grenade launcher as a anti-personnel weapon while clearing buildings. The grenades for those devices have a minimum travel distance before they actually arm, so if you shoot someone with one at point blank range it shouldn't explode, but is still a 40mm grenade being launched straight into you.

IIRC, most man portable rockets are the same with about a 100m minimum distance to arm.

I am considering putting some super grenade "shells" in the game. The lore would be they are made of pure adamantine come in one of a couple of flavors (utility, incendiary, cryo, and shock) cost half as much as a normal grenade of the given tech level but can be reloaded after use for an appropriate standard block of ammunition/power and a sufficient engineering check.

Might be hybrid items to better experience why the shell is able to withstand the damage.


Starfinder Superscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:

So I have heard of people using the underbarrel grenade launcher as a anti-personnel weapon while clearing buildings. The grenades for those devices have a minimum travel distance before they actually arm, so if you shoot someone with one at point blank range it shouldn't explode, but is still a 40mm grenade being launched straight into you.

IIRC, most man portable rockets are the same with about a 100m minimum distance to arm.

That is correct. They have a spin armed fuse. Basically "If the grenade spins X number of times, that equals Y number of meters," It then explodes on impact after that point. The Mk19 Grenade Launcher (automatic grenade launcher) uses this principal as well.

The under rifle ones are M203. The stand alone that it replaced were the M79 (the Blooper). The AT4 Man-pad does too.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Did I miss something? You can't even get an underslung grenade launcher when using maze core tech in Starfinder.


Yeah, I put in theory because, I have only fired training rounds from the m203, and have not/likely will not be in a position to do more than that.

Also on a normal basis it's not something I would want to test as I could see issues rising from it after the round has been expended. I wouldn't want to see it get kicked around too much.


It was even featured in a movie a few years back where someone takes an RPG to the plate carrier when they enter a room. Knocked back and winded (and a bit surprised) but it didnt have the space to arm or detonate.


Ravingdork wrote:
Did I miss something? You can't even get an underslung grenade launcher when using maze core tech in Starfinder.

you missed the off ramp for the tangent i think.


Torbyne wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
Did I miss something? You can't even get an underslung grenade launcher when using maze core tech in Starfinder.
you missed the off ramp for the tangent i think.

I was mostly musing on the different ways grenades/launchers are actually used as a gateway to thinking about means to make them more relevant without going overpowered or a contrivance.


Abraham spalding wrote:

My only beef against smoke grenades is as written the usage is poor.

If you are using a smoke grenades for concealment you are should throw it in front of the person you want concealment from. It blocks a wider portion of their vision and doesn't immediately define where you are or where you are going that way.

Basically it should work more like a tower shield, or wall edge giving cover in Starfinder terms for the square/grid section it lands in for everyone trying to shoot through it.

Instead it grants cover for those in the smoke but not from them. It's possibly more helpful than hindering since armor can provide protection from the environmental hazard.

I'm 99% sure it doesn't work like that. The squares in the explosion radius grant concealment, ie you need to look at the corner to corner sight lines and see if they pass through or along the edge of those squares.

If an enemy is in say the middle of the smoke explosions, then every line from every corner of your square to one of their corners goes through a smoke square: they have total concealment from you. However, every line from every one of their corners to one of your corners also goes through a smoke square, so you have total concealment from them.

If the smoke is between the two people, but they are both out of the cloud, it still works the same way: if all the lines go through smoke squares, total concealment. If only some of the lines go through smoke (ie there is one corner to corner connection that does not go through or along an edge of smoke) then its partial concealment.


Thaago wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:

My only beef against smoke grenades is as written the usage is poor.

If you are using a smoke grenades for concealment you are should throw it in front of the person you want concealment from. It blocks a wider portion of their vision and doesn't immediately define where you are or where you are going that way.

Basically it should work more like a tower shield, or wall edge giving cover in Starfinder terms for the square/grid section it lands in for everyone trying to shoot through it.

Instead it grants cover for those in the smoke but not from them. It's possibly more helpful than hindering since armor can provide protection from the environmental hazard.

I'm 99% sure it doesn't work like that. The squares in the explosion radius grant concealment, ie you need to look at the corner to corner sight lines and see if they pass through or along the edge of those squares.

If an enemy is in say the middle of the smoke explosions, then every line from every corner of your square to one of their corners goes through a smoke square: they have total concealment from you. However, every line from every one of their corners to one of your corners also goes through a smoke square, so you have total concealment from them.

If the smoke is between the two people, but they are both out of the cloud, it still works the same way: if all the lines go through smoke squares, total concealment. If only some of the lines go through smoke (ie there is one corner to corner connection that does not go through or along an edge of smoke) then its partial concealment.

I am fully ready to be wrong on this, because me being wrong would mean smoke grenades are a lot more useful than I thought.

To help clarify I got the smoke grenade rules below.

Quote:

SMOKE GRENADE

A smoke grenade deals no damage; instead, it releases a cloud of dense smoke. Each character who inhales smoke must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw each round (DC = 15 + 1 per previous check) or spend that round choking and coughing; he can do nothing else. A character who chokes for 2 consecutive rounds takes 1d6 nonlethal damage. (Active environmental protection from a suit of armor prevents this effect altogether.) Regardless of the armor a character wears, smoke obscures vision, granting concealment to anyone within it.

The smoke grenade has a radius of 20 foot.

The rules for concealment are thus:

Quote:
To determine whether you have concealment from a creature’s ranged attack, choose a corner of the enemy’s square. If any line from this corner to any corner of your square passes through a square that provides concealment or the border of such a square, you have concealment. Also use these rules when a creature makes a melee attack against a target that isn’t adjacent to it.

Now the smoke grenade specifically states anyone in it has concealment, but those outside will only have concealment if the conditions for concealment are met.

If the creature is on the outside edge of the smoke then the back corners (since you get to choose which corner) will pass through the square of smoke the creature is in thereby proving that you (being outside) the smoke will have concealment from any creature inside the smoke.

So I do agree, that I was wrong, and creatures inside the smoke will have a harder time targeting those outside the smoke, if indeed they can at all.

My concerns were unwarranted, and I will happily accept that smoke grenades are rather useful.

I don't think smoke provides cover though as it is specifically listed in the concealment, and cover seems to come from obstacles partially blocking line of effect, not line of sight.

Quote:
If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover.

Smoke doesn't block line of effect.


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:) I agree with you it does concealment and not cover. I wish that the grenade description said something like "squares inside the explosion provide concealment." instead of the current language, which is confusing.

As to the original question: I think grenades are worth it for their status effects, not for damage. Of the status effects, I think Blinded is very worth it, entangled and staggered are just ok.

As an example for blinded, lets look at a 10th level situation, where the party encounters 4 CR 8 enemies. This is a APL + 2, or hard fight. It should reward the players with an average of 34,000 credits.

Lets say a dex based character throws a level 6 flash grenade, which costs 1350 credits. The character probably has a dex bonus of around 7 at this point (4 starting, 1 from leveling, 2 from boost), so the DC for the save is 20. Going by the bestiary, a CR 8 enemy has a reflex save of +10, so they have a 55% chance to save.

The grenade has a 10 ft radius, and a soldier with powerful explosive increases that to 15 ft. It depends on the situation, but it would be really weird not to catch 2-4 of those 4 enemies in the area. Or on average 1-2 enemies are blinded.

Blinded is a nasty condition. Unless they are immune or have a recovery ability, those enemies are useless for d4 rounds. If all 4 enemies are in the radius (lets say you sneak up on them or have an operative do it), then thats average half the enemies mostly useless for on average 2.5 rounds. ~10% chance to blind all four of them.

So 1 standard action from one character consumes 4% of the encounters expected wealth gain to give a serious advantage (knocking half the enemies in the encounter out of action for 2 rounds). To me that is very worth it.


Oh, something else I just noticed, smoke grenades provide cover and concealment from lasers.

I can definitely see an argument for status effects.

Which brings up the naughty list of weapons...
NBCs.

Granted we have nukes and radiation weapons of various flavors, do you think we'll see chemical weapons (such as nerve gas) or biological contaminants coming around?

I don't see how a game with the level of nasty effects starfinder has not utilizing them, and I was mildly surprised that at least serious pepper spray and the like we're not already included.


Heck looking at the grenades and long term silliness I realized that if you go soldier 11 you get three attacks on a full attack, you can then go droneMech 7 and get two more attacks off your drone. Of course the drone kind of sucks, so you will probably want to arm it with a grenade launcher. With four mods you can go with the hover drone, grab the second weapon mount you need and the weapon proficiency, and two armor slots. Use the armor slots to grab a kicking shield to help keep the drone up. The DC will either be 14+ 1/2 item level or 8 +1/2 item level.

If you take mechanic up to level 8 weapon focus on the drone will go up to 2, putting you at +10 to hit (+4 if full attacking) and allow you to get more ammunition for the launcher.


KapaaIan wrote:

The two ways to balance grenades would have been cost, or collateral damage. The design team chose cost likely because it is simpler, and less likely to result in angry or dead PCs.

Option One: Grenades cost a lot, but generally work like a spell anyone can use.

The issue there is that well...spell gems are pretty much a better option even for non-spellcasters (Since you can use a weapon fusion to let you fire spell gems from it). They are cheaper and more potent and come in a lot more options.

The sole advantage grenades have is letting you throw a lot of them...which isn't a great advantage when they cost such a staggering amount.


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Abraham spalding wrote:

Oh, something else I just noticed, smoke grenades provide cover and concealment from lasers.

I can definitely see an argument for status effects.

Which brings up the naughty list of weapons...
NBCs.

Granted we have nukes and radiation weapons of various flavors, do you think we'll see chemical weapons (such as nerve gas) or biological contaminants coming around?

I don't see how a game with the level of nasty effects starfinder has not utilizing them, and I was mildly surprised that at least serious pepper spray and the like we're not already included.

We have the Starfinder Armory coming up middle of this year. So we won't have to wait long to find out.

But yes, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be in that expanded rules. Yes, chemical and biological weapons are a sensitive issue, but this is a game were spells like Cloudkill and monsters like the Akata are a thing. Not to mention diseases like mummies rot...

Though that does raise a question on where biological weapons would go in a world of magical diseases. Forget mustard gas, imagine if mummies rot was spread ontop a battlefield as an airborne gas... almost makes the question of nukes in another thread seem timid in comparison.


Quote:

A weapon with the Spellthrower fusion is able to have a single Spell gem loaded into it at a time. It takes 1 minute to load a Spell gem, and only gems containing a Spell with a casting time of one standard action or less and a Spell level no greater than one-quarter the weapon’s item level can be loaded into the weapon.

If you are proficient with and wielding the weapon, as a full action you can cast the Spell contained within the Spell gem rather than make a normal attack. This allows you to use the Spell gem as if you were a spellcaster with the Spell on your class’s Spell list.

Unlike the normal rules for using a Spell gem, it does not matter if the gem’s item level is higher than your caster level (even if your caster level is 0). However, if the Spell gem’s item level is higher than your base attack bonus, once you’ve spent the full action to cast the Spell, you must succeed at an attack roll with the weapon against an AC equal to the Spell gem’s level + 1 or you fail to cast the Spell. This roll represents your expertise with the weapon, and no actual attack or ammunition is used. If you fail to cast a Spell from a Spell gem, the Spell is expended harmlessly and the Spell gem is destroyed.

Well, spell gems for non-casters come with a bunch of their own disadvantages. Spell level is at most 1/4 of item level with the spell thrower, so 2cd level spells can be used at 8, 3rd at 12, etc.

Their saving throws are going to be low, at 10 + spell level + ability modifier. What even is the ability modifier of a Soldier using a Technomancer spell in a spell gem? Spell DC's for spellcasters go off the caster's primary score, so probably dex for a ranged soldier, though a cruel GM would mandate the score of the caster class required to cast the spell (in which case the DC is terrible). EDIT: its faq'd - the user's primary ability score.

Caster level is 0 as well - its specifically mentioned, and the ability does not give a caster level. RAW it is your caster level that determines level dependent effects, so any spell that has a duration of minutes/level or effects 1 creature per level... just doesn't work? That doesn't seem right. Is that right?

Spell resistance will apply, and its a full round action to use it.

They do cost so much less though - Explosive Blast works even with all the above problems, and is much cheaper and better than an equivalent 12th level grenade, not to mention longer ranged.

For spellcasters though, yeah, spell gems all the way.

Shadow Lodge

I want to put in that in the game I ran last night, 1 smoke grenade completely wrecked an encounter. The people didn't have their seals turned on (weren't expecting combat). Half of them failed their saves. And this isn't Nauseated like in pathfinder, where the only thing you can do is get out of the cloud. Nope, once you fail the save, you're done - can't move out, can't turn your enviro-seal on, nothing except keep choking until you make the increasingly hard save. For only 40 credits.


Thistledown what?

starfinder wrote:
You are experiencing stomach distress. You can’t attack, cast Spells, concentrate on Spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action you can take is a single move action per turn.
Pathfinder wrote:
Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move actions per turn.


I think he means "The cloud doesn't just nauseate, like Stinking Cloud in Pathfinder".

The smoke grenade text reads: Each character who inhales smoke must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw each round (...) or spend that round choking and coughing; he can do nothing else.


Okay yeah that makes much more sense.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Regarding the smoke grenade problem: I had a similiar experience but in that one the succeeded chars put on their seals and after that they helped the others either out of the cloud or to activate the suits protection. I allowed this to be done externally since it seems logical as a safety issue to be able to activate protection for a unconscious or injured subject. This only made the problem last a few rounds.

in my encounter the smoke grenade was thrown by a player, btw :D


rixu wrote:

Regarding the smoke grenade problem: I had a similiar experience but in that one the succeeded chars put on their seals and after that they helped the others either out of the cloud or to activate the suits protection. I allowed this to be done externally since it seems logical as a safety issue to be able to activate protection for a unconscious or injured subject. This only made the problem last a few rounds.

in my encounter the smoke grenade was thrown by a player, btw :D

The game actually has rules for turning on (or off) someone else's Environmental Protections, for future reference. Namely

Environmental Protections, Activation and Duration, Pages 196 and 198 wrote:
If you have access to a suit that is unattended or worn by a helpless creature, you can turn on its environmental protection as a full action, but turning it off requires a Computers check to hack the system, treating the suit as a computer with a tier equal to half the suit’s item level (the base DC to hack a computer is equal to 13 + 4 per tier).

An unconscious creature counts as Helpless, so you could turn on an unconscious creature's environmental protections as a Full Action.


Interesting, probably need to change the rules on smoke grenades.

While it could be a lot of fun to completely disable anyone who doesn't have the enviro seals of their armor turned on, it seems quite overpowered that they then end up sitting there until they die on a failed save.


They get to save each round, so eventually they should make it. Smoke grenades are awesome, and the save is relatively easy. So I don't see a need to change them.
My players have discovered the joys and wonders of smoke grenades and sticky bombs. They even managed to shut down a minor boss fight with a single sticky bomb. It was awesome.

Shadow Lodge

Necrodemus wrote:

They get to save each round, so eventually they should make it. Smoke grenades are awesome, and the save is relatively easy. So I don't see a need to change them.

My players have discovered the joys and wonders of smoke grenades and sticky bombs. They even managed to shut down a minor boss fight with a single sticky bomb. It was awesome.

It does start off fairly low (I just rolled terrible), but it gets harder every round.


Yeah, a unlucky roll can find you stuck in the cloud with an increasing save DC. One from which you cannot move.

I'm of the opinion that you should probably allowed to take a single move action if you fail the save, so you can attempt to get clear of the cloud.

A series of unlucky rolls could see you stranded in the cloud for multiple rounds. Which is a bit of a death sentence if it happens and little recourse except hoping you roll well.


I was coming here to say the same thing about smoke grenades. My group completely spanked a large encounter with their help.


My players haven't had too many problems. They usually succeed at the initial reflex save at dc 10-14 to avoid the smoke altogether. And even if they don't, they usually make the fort save in 1-2 rounds, unless one of their party members pull them out of it or activate their suit seal.


Ravingdork wrote:

Every time I make a character and look at the grenade section, I can never seem to justify the costs.

Are grenades ever really worth it? Or is that money pretty much always better spent elsewhere?

Do not seem worth it for the cost. Buy better equipment.


I've got a bombard soldier who acts as a support/medic and is practically the MVP. I have the party find grenades because it makes a very cool character concept quite viable, and it's fun. Also his knowledge and background allows him to know where to look for weapons lockers, etc. if he makes appropriate skill checks. What makes him so valuable is the status effects, not the damage.


Necrodemus wrote:

My players haven't had too many problems. They usually succeed at the initial reflex save at dc 10-14 to avoid the smoke altogether. And even if they don't, they usually make the fort save in 1-2 rounds, unless one of their party members pull them out of it or activate their suit seal.

The reflex save doesn’t do anything on a smoke grenade...because succeeding doesn’t move you out of a smoke square and any creature that breaths while in that square has to make fort saves since it’s an ongoing terrain hazard not an instantaneous effect


Guess I've always been too good on my players then. I've always used reflex saves as "throw yourself out of harm's way". We're used to a theater of the mind approach. So making a reflex save -to us - means using your reflexes to throw yourself away from danger, and not just stay put. It's one of those "we're roleplaying, not board-gaming things" where mechanics that say they do one thing, but actually don't, are trumped by narrative description.
We're using minis for starfinder, but I make allowances baeed on what makes sense in the descriptive events. It's a preference thing. :)


Just realised that post might be interpreted at bad-wrong-fun, which totally isn't my intention. So I'll just head myself off and clarify. :)

What we do, is once the grenade goes off, and you make a reflex save, you are free to move out of the smoke/danger on your turn (or act as normal). As the reflex save means - to us - you are quick to react, and can dodge/move out of the way. The grenade does not affect you this turn. However, if you are dumb enough to stay in the smoke, or unable to leave the area, because it's too big, you suffer conditions as normal next turn. Meaning you start by making a fort save because you start chocking.

So I guess in rules-speak, it would mean: On a succesful save, you are unaffected for your next turn. Any turn following, counts as if you had just entered the area, and suffer effects as normal.


This is most definitely a house-rule, but personally I would allow a player that made the Reflex save to start holding their breath as part of the save (and then let that carry them through their next round, rather than the 50/50 chance of being affected anyways right afterwards) giving them a chance to either move out or activate Environmental Protection (or just keep holding their breath, using the normal rules for Inhaled Afflictions from there).


Shinigami02 wrote:
This is most definitely a house-rule, but personally I would allow a player that made the Reflex save to start holding their breath as part of the save (and then let that carry them through their next round, rather than the 50/50 chance of being affected anyways right afterwards) giving them a chance to either move out or activate Environmental Protection (or just keep holding their breath, using the normal rules for Inhaled Afflictions from there).

That makes sense, I might allow that at my table

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