Pei Zin Practitioner and things that work with Lay on Hands

[vagabond_666]

I'm currently playing a Tiefling Paladin, and I'm considering a dip into Pei Zin Practitioner Oracle, and so I'm trying to figure whether any of the things I currently have wouldn't work with Healer's Way.

I have the following: Tiefling FCB, Mercies, Greater Mercy, Ultimate Mercy, and Bracers of the Merciful Knight.

To my mind the FCB and Mercies should work, although it really boils down to what an effect is.
If FCBs or Class Features aren't effects, then I guess they won't apply, but assuming there isn't some precise definition of effect I've been unable to find, I'd say I'm good.

Greater Mercy is a no brainer, it's a feat, and even if mercies don't apply to Healer's Way, the wording is such that this would still kick in.

Ultimate Mercy is a little gray area, but again I think it's good, since it is using lay on hands to raise dead, a spell with the healing descriptor, so I should be able to spend uses of Healer's Way towards activating it.

Bracers of the Merciful Knight seems it probably doesn't do anything, since it explicitly talks about "when worn by a Paladin" and Healer's Way doesn't care what level Paladin I am. I guess I could buy an argument that the "count's as a Paladin's Lay on Hands" causes them to work, but I'm definitely leaning to no on this one.

Am I wrong on any of this?

[DeathlessOne]

Healer's Way and Lay on Hands are two distinct class features, and do not stack. HOWEVER, Healer's Way specifically calls out to treat it as a "paladin's lay on hands ability" (i.e., class feature).

So, Favored Class Bonus? Yes.
Greater Mercy? You bet.
Ultimate Mercy? Uh-huh, still good.
Bracers of the Merciful Knight? Nope, you have no paladin level tied to the Healer's Way ability.

So far, so good. You are 4 - 0 with your thinking. Here's something you might not have seen:

You can use your Paladin Mercy class ability with Healer's Way. Because Mercy specifically calls out a "paladin’s lay on hands ability". Your actual Paladin level determines what mercies you have access to but your "paladin lay on hands ability" delivers them.

[BranRumblewater]

DeathlessOne wrote:

Healer's Way and Lay on Hands are two distinct class features, and do not stack. HOWEVER, Healer's Way specifically calls out to treat it as a "paladin's lay on hands ability" (i.e., class feature).

So, Favored Class Bonus? Yes.
Greater Mercy? You bet.
Ultimate Mercy? Uh-huh, still good.
Bracers of the Merciful Knight? Nope, you have no paladin level tied to the Healer's Way ability.

So far, so good. You are 4 - 0 with your thinking. Here's something you might not have seen:

You can use your Paladin Mercy class ability with Healer's Way. Because Mercy specifically calls out a "paladin’s lay on hands ability". Your actual Paladin level determines what mercies you have access to but your "paladin lay on hands ability" delivers them.

DeathlessOne I would disagree with respect to the Bracers of the Merciful Knight. The language of Healer's Way is written very broadly in that the ability "counts as a paladin's lay on hands ability for the purposes of feats, spells and effects that work with that class feature when used for healing purposes" I would argue the intent was to allow equipment like the Bracers of the Merciful Knight to be used without the need to go back an errata out all of the specific mentions of Paladin when they applied to Lay on Hands.

Hoping someone official can weigh in here as this archetype has become increasingly popular as a healer. If the ruling is that it doesn't work if the character is full Pei Zin, would it make a difference in applying to Healer's Way if the character is multiclass with levels in Paladin as well?

[DeathlessOne]

I understand where you are coming from with your reasoning but I can not argue for or against the perceived intent of the ability/magic item. All I can really rely on is that the "Healer's Way" class ability never assigns you an effective 'paladin' level in order to determine the amount you heal, instead relies on your actual oracle level. If this was any different, I would agree with you.

In a home game, I'd let you do what you are asking. I am a fairly lenient GM but when discussing actual rules, and how they interact with each other, I am adamant that we know the rules that we are intentionally bending. As far as I can see, unless the Healer's way class ability is errata-ed with an effective paladin level equal to its oracle level, this question will remain an issue.

[Weirdo]

The Bracers do by only work for a Paladin, not for any characters with Lay on Hands.

However, given that the OP would be a Paladin/Oracle, the bracers would activate. They also don't specify that they increase your "effective paladin level" for lay on hands, just that you are treated as "four levels higher." And it's certainly an effect that works with the lay on hands class feature.

Given the wording, RAW I would say that they work for a Paladin/Oracle, but not for a single-classed Pei Zin Oracle.

[DeathlessOne]

Weirdo wrote:

Given the wording, RAW I would say that they work for a Paladin/Oracle, but not for a single-classed Pei Zin Oracle.

Given that exact wording, it can be argued that a multiclassed Paladin/Pei Zin Oracle's "Healer's Way" ability would benefit from the bracers. I agree with you there. The Paladin level(s) seems to be the key.