How is my build?


Advice


I've had two other threads on here getting advice on ways to make a build that I want and everyone was very helpful, so I thought I would post what I've come up with to see how others think it will fair. Any advice, comments, and corrections are welcomed and appreciated. So... settle in.

I want to have a caster Druid, yes with an animal companion because I don't think one spell per CL is worth it when you can't choose the spell, but I think for the majority of the game (especially early on) the Druid just doesn't have the spell slots to rely on magic alone. I also know that a Druid can't do it all, but I think if there is one class that can do a little of one thing and a lot of another then this is it. My attempt at this is to have a secondary fighting ability to throw weapons. He of course won't be great at throwing, but in those situations where I don't have spells to spare or SR is too big a problem, or even just early on, I think it will be viable. I would mainly rely on Thorn Javelin and Produce Flame for this. I'm also drawn to spells that have continuous effect after they've been cast. Things like TJ and PF, of course, but also those controllable sphere spells like "Ball Lightning, Flaming Sphere" as well as Call Lightning, and I mean, you get the picture. Ideally I would use wild shape to take the form of a bird or flyer of sorts to cast spells form above and always have 1-2 spells for damage of each energy type, or maybe element type since acid could be hard to maintain but "earth" would be easy. A heal or two for emergency situations, but mostly heal out of combat with wands and potions because I'm no healer. I also like dispel and energy resist spells, so one or two of those, but mostly crowd control and utility spells is what I want. Things like entangle, warp wood, that one where you teleport between trees seems cool, and of course crowd control that also deals damage is a plus like thorny entanglement (I think.) So, anyway....

With a 20 point buy and human ability bonus:
Str. 14 Dex. 16 Con. 14 Wis. 18 Int. 10 Cha. 10
I don't want to dump Charisma and Intelligence if I don't have to because I feel like out of combat I would be extremely limited and I want to be able to role play as well.

Traits: Focused Mind and Reactionary

Primary Skills: Craft (Alchemy), Fly, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), Perception, Spellcraft, and Survival

Profession: Herbalist
I think that Herbalist and Craft Alchemy are both flavor appropriate for a Druid and should work well together, though I don't actually know how. Perhaps I can find reagents with Herbalist and save on cost for Alchemy?

Feats:

1.) Point Blank and Precise Shot (Human)
3.) Extend- Up until this point I would probably have to lug around javelins or something since I won't have many spells and will want to deal damage from a distance. Suddenly with extend my PF and TJ are sticking around for six rounds and are a decent use of a spell slot.
5.) Natural Spell- Because duh...
7.) Rapid Shot- Now I can throw two of TJ or PF per turn, no Quickdraw required, and at level 8 my BAB will grant an additional attack. (I believe that is how it works anyway.)
9.) Dazing Spell- Suddenly that PF has huge crowd control potential and later I can put this feat on other spells and be the CC + damage king. Also, I would take this at 9th level because it would bump PF up to a level 5 spell slot. Additionally this is where I can cast Aspect of Wolf (?) for +4 to Str. AND Dex. keeping TJ viable. Maybe even turn into some sort of ape and gain bonuses that way. A TJ wielding gorilla with buffs.... pretty cool.
11.) Heavy Armor Proficiency- This is the level I need to be to cast Irnonwood and can now wear it without penalty.
13.) Intensified Spell- Ups my PF damage as well as for other spells, but mostly I need another metamagic feat for my next feat to work
15.) Spell Perfection- I would have to wait until I get there but I might put this on PF; although an Intensified, Dazing, Perfected Ball Lightning sounds pretty sweet. Who knows... long ways off.
17.) Maybe Toughness.... I don't know, if I make it this far that is. Campaign might not get me here, I might not get me here, open to suggestion at this point.
19.) Perhaps Lightning Reflexes if those saves are really hurting me; again suggestions here would be good.

That's pretty much it. Let me know and thanks in advance.

Shadow Lodge

Quote:

With a 20 point buy and human ability bonus:

Str. 14 Dex. 16 Con. 14 Wis. 18 Int. 10 Cha. 10
Two 16s, two 14s, and two 10s are 30pt buy, not 20.
Quote:
I don't want to dump Charisma and Intelligence...

Well, you're going to have to pull ten points from somewhere.

I would recommend consulting the guide threads for one on making druids, because there are many different kinds. Summoning druids, battlefield-control druids, mounted druids, reach-druids, archer-druids, sneak-around-while-companion fights druids (and the reverse).


Charisma does really very little for you. If you want to be able to use face skills then Cunning Liar allows you to use Wisdom for Bluff or Empathic Diplomat allows you to use it for Diplomacy. You cannot take both as they are both regional.

As things stand it looks like you have a 30 point buy with two 16's, 14's and 10's pre racial. I might suggest something like:

Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8

That would allow you to drop Charisma a bit without impacting on your out of combat skills too much. I would probably also recommend dropping strength a bit, if you go down the animal companion route you don't need much in the way of physical combat ability yourself. Ant Haul will solve any weight issues from your armour.

Archery is really very feat intensive to do it any justice at all and investing in it for thorn javelin, a level 1 spell which will quickly become obsolete, seems like a waste. You also only get a limited number of attacks with it.

What you could look at is taking a domain which also gives an animal companion (Animal, Fur or Feather) and taking Boon Companion, probably at level 3, to make sure your companion is at your full level.

As far as other feats go, Extend is generally better as a Rod early on, they are very cheap. If you want Heavy Armour I would take it early on and use dragonhide. Dazing spell is incredibly strong but really requires some feat support, generally spell focus. Conjuration and Evocation are your best choices. Depending on which route you go you might also want Spell Penetration.

You could go with one of the animal domains to also nab standard action summoning. Saurian and Lion are both strong but they do delay wild shape acquisition. Both benefit from augment summons which makes spell focus conjuration the better choice to use with Dazing.

You also should not ignore initiative, especially if going with control or summoning. A saurian shaman summoner/controller might look something like:

1st: Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summons (you wont get much benefit from this early on)
3rd: Boon Companion (you have to take a snake or dinosaur companion)
5th: Superior Summoning (you have standard action summons now, you cannot take natural spell yet as you don't get wildshape until 6th)
7th: Natural Spell
9th: Dazing Spell, free feat (generally terrible choices for you, maybe vital strike to use with huge animal forms)
11th: Persistent Spell (makes for very powerful control)
13th: Quicken Spell (to qualify for your next feat, also useful for fast buffing)
15th: Spell Perfection
17th: Greater Spell Focus
19th: Spell Penetration

Spell Perfection choices are fairly open. You could take direct damage to combine with persistent and/or dazing or ignore the metamagic part of it and go for a high level summon to double the benefits of augment summons (+8str and con) and superior summoning (2 extra creatures).

If going for a more elemental damage focused character I would look at Menhir Savant (for the caster level boosting abilities) or Halycon Druid (extra wizard spells but loses wild shape!)

1st: Spell Focus (evocation), Greater Spell Focus (evocation)
3rd: Boon Companion
5th: Natural Spell
7th: Spell Penetration
9th: Dazing Spell
11th: Persistent Spell (makes for very powerful control)
13th: Quicken Spell (to qualify for your next feat, also useful for fast buffing)
15th: Spell Perfection
17th: Greater Spell Penetration
19th: Intensified Spell

Sell Perfection here is again wide open but probably on some form of elemental based direct damage. I quite like flame strike as a choice as you can then have persistent, dazing flame strike. Ball Lightning is great but has a couple of limitations. The save is to negate the damage and the damage is quite low so 20+ electrical resistance could mean they do nothing. Resistance and immunity become much more common as levels increase.

If you are looking for spells which persist on the battlefield then Aqueous Orb is amazing for controlling enemy actions.


I thought it was just a 20 point buy because that is what the numbers add up to, so I'm guessing that 1 point doesn't always cost 1 point? This is basically my first character so I didn't realize that was a problem. I made one character before and played a total of 10 hours with it before the game fell apart; I rolled for abilities and got: Str. 14, Dex. 17, Con. 14, Int. 10, Wis. 19, and Cha. 8 without racial bonus, so I didn't think the ones I chose were too crazy or anything.

I also didn't mind having to pay 3 feats to be able to use Thorn Javelin, Produce Flame, and other thrown weapons with at least some efficiency. I figured it would make it so that I could conserve spell slots and still be in the fight from a safe distance, though not dealing great damage. My theory was with buffs and certain wildshape forms that TJ would be somewhat effective and with metamagic feats PF would be as well. I know you only get a limited number of attacks with them, but since they aren't my main way of dealing damage or even fighting and they last 1 min/round (1 throw=1 minute) and twice that with extend, I felt that they were a good use of a spell slot. Even if they only did 4 damage a piece I could throw three per turn by level 8 dealing 12 damage plus sicken for TJ and maybe Daze with PF if I had it on there. Doing that multiple rounds just seemed like a good use of spells. Also, I didn't want to use a rod so that if I had one of these spells cast in my hand I could still cast spells with my other hand. If you don't think so, then I probably need to rethink my route. I like both of your suggestions, andreww. I don't want to focus too much on summoning though, I am aware it is one of the best types of magic but I just don't want to have something else doing the fighting for me all the time and it seems like that is the way everyone goes with their Druid.

I've consulted the threads and spent a lot of time researching, I mean a lot of time. I just don't want to make something that is cookie cutter and that everyone has made. I thought I would go for something different but still simple.


This is pretty suboptimal. Possibly cripplingly so. Lets see what we can do for it

Str 11 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 19 Cha 7 would put you into 20pt buy. Andrew had a good array as well but I prefer the higher wisdom. Either way points from leveling all go into Wis

Druids have no bonus feats so you are feat starved. The training enchantment from Inner Sea Intrigue could help you free up some feat slots. Put it on Thorn Bracers/Spiked Gauntlets. I would also move extend spell to a rod as it is very cheap. You probably want to invest the extra feats to increase your save dcs

Most enemies as you level will have more and more energy resistance and dr. I can't think of a way around DR for thorns but produce flame can use elemental rods(there aren't that many critters with rainbow resistance). Alternatively a level dip into arcanist/wizard would give you admixture school powers. Focusing on only produce flames would also let you use metamagic reduction traits wayang spellhunter+magical lineage(either trade your current traits or take additional traits). This also lets you drop dazing fairly early on. After that perhaps heighten spell so they are dazed longer and longer

Pretty sure there is herbalism stuff in Pathfinder somewhere. Don't have time to check atm


So if I were to drop the whole thrown weapons thing and lost the three feats that went with it, what would you suggest? I don't want to be a melee fighter at all because then it seems to me that that would be harder than a thrown weapon fighter. If I am melee and a caster then I have to worry about defense, damage, and spells. If I'm a thrown weapon caster then it is just damage and spells. Right?

I like the Saurian and Lion Shamans as andreww suggested; the Lion being more appealing in some ways but since I want to be able to fly when I cast spells the Saurian gives me the option of at least becoming a pteranadon. Perhaps Eagle Shaman? If I take a totem archetype with the Animal Domain do I still have to take their specified animal companion since I didn't actually choose an animal companion?


Also, I do really like the Mehnir Savant. I just don't like losing woodland stride as that and venom immunity are my favorite perks of being a Druid (aside from the animal companion, spell list, and wildshape.)


What is boils down to is that I want an archetype that will let me have an animal companion (preferably lion or tiger,) take the shape of a bird (or at least be able to fly,) and be a spell caster. In an ideal world I would have some sort of backup to casting spells for those times that I can't or it isn't practical (though I understand this is not an ideal world.) I like the totem archetypes, but they make my wildshape less useful when I am not in the preferred animal form. Either I can be an effective flyer, or I can have the companion I would rather have.


For flying, the shaman domains don't prevent you taking other forms, they just make you wait a little longer.

From level 7 onwards you can just use air walk until you get access to an easier flight form. Small elemental should come online at level 8 as an animal shaman. Small air elementals will give you excellent options.


andreww wrote:

For flying, the shaman domains don't prevent you taking other forms, they just make you wait a little longer.

From level 7 onwards you can just use air walk until you get access to an easier flight form. Small elemental should come online at level 8 as an animal shaman. Small air elementals will give you excellent options.

I know I can take all animal forms with the animal shamans, I just meant that I have to do so at a penalty unless it is an animal specifically governed by that Totem Archetype. So, if I took Bear then I get a bonus to being a bear, which is cool, but I take a penalty at being an eagle, which is what I want to be. This has me leaning towards the Eagle Shaman with the Animal Domain; that is if I can take any animal as a companion. I like getting bonus feats, but I'm not a huge fan of the ones the Eagle gives you. I would almost just rather have the venom immunity at that point.


Also, I don't have a 30 point buy. I was confused as to how the point buy system worked. I thought 1 point costed 1 point. I now see to get something to 18 it actually costs 17 points, not 8. Which is crazy. I would much rather roll since when I did it that way I got 14, 17, 14, 10, 19, 8.... which is apparently pretty amazing. I think with a 20 point buy I would do something like Str. 10, Dex. 15, Con. 15, Wis. 16, Int. 8, Cha. 8 and use a Human/Half-elf race bonus of +2 on Wisdom, bringing it to 18.


How would Persistent Spell and Bouncing Spell work on the same spell? If a creature made a save twice then could I send it towards another creature? Would that second creature make one save or two?

Shadow Lodge

Palestag wrote:
Also, I don't have a 30 point buy. I was confused as to how the point buy system worked. I thought 1 point costed 1 point. I now see to get something to 18 it actually costs 17 points, not 8. Which is crazy. I would much rather roll since when I did it that way I got 14, 17, 14, 10, 19, 8.... which is apparently pretty amazing. I think with a 20 point buy I would do something like Str. 10, Dex. 15, Con. 15, Wis. 16, Int. 8, Cha. 8 and use a Human/Half-elf race bonus of +2 on Wisdom, bringing it to 18.

15,14,14,14,12,07 is, usually, the best "one dump-stat" 20pt array. Race-bump the 15 to 17, level it up at 4th, buy the associated belt or headband at 5th or 6th, and you have your 20 while also enjoying three 14s and a 12 elsewhere.


Palestag wrote:
Also, I don't have a 30 point buy. I was confused as to how the point buy system worked. I thought 1 point costed 1 point. I now see to get something to 18 it actually costs 17 points, not 8. Which is crazy. I would much rather roll since when I did it that way I got 14, 17, 14, 10, 19, 8.... which is apparently pretty amazing. I think with a 20 point buy I would do something like Str. 10, Dex. 15, Con. 15, Wis. 16, Int. 8, Cha. 8 and use a Human/Half-elf race bonus of +2 on Wisdom, bringing it to 18.

Rolling for stats is nice until you roll like 12, 13, 11, 10, 8 , 8.

Sure, if you rolled great it's nice, but when you roll crap you're in trouble. Point buy ensures everyone in the party has a more or less similar stat array and you don't have like 1 guy who rolled incredibly well and is having a blast, and another who rolled absolute crap and can't enjoy the game because he can't do anything competently.

Shadow Lodge

RandomReverie wrote:
Point buy ensures everyone in the party has a more or less similar stat array

Arrays can be all over the map. 14,14,13,13,12,12 and 18,18,08,07,07,07 are both 20pt arrays.

What point-buy ensures is that everything is fair at character creation.

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