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So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
If I recall correctly, the mechanic gets to choose to assign two standard actions and one move action between themselves and their drone. So the dinner can move and fire by the mechanic giving up part of their actions.
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That's Master's Control, again for this scenario the Mechanic had to move and use their standard action, leaving the drone with only one action.
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With only a standard or a move why waste the move to attempt to hover? Cannot shoot, poor chance at hovering at lower levels, the only viable option is to move at this point.
Seems kinda odd to me is all, having to land to shoot.
So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.
Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
HOVER
Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall.So without using Master's Control, you have to use a move action to hover. Thus not getting a standard action to attack.
Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
HOVER
Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall.So without using Master's Control, you have to use a move action to hover. Thus not getting a standard action to attack.
But it is a swift action if you succeed at an Acrobatics check.
Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
That is pretty much how I read it. Going from the ground to hovering is a move action but once it is hovering it only would use the move action for actually moving either in some direction or up and down. Otherwise it would just be holding position otherwise the hover drone would make zero sense having to constantly take off and land to shoot.
I will have to look into the rules some more but I think that would something that gets errataed. Even modern day consumer drones their default safe action if they lose pilot input is to stop and hover given the quad copter type design does not really use aerodynamic flight it is just as stable stationary hovering as it is moving.
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But it is a swift action if you succeed at an Acrobatics check.Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
HOVER
Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall.So without using Master's Control, you have to use a move action to hover. Thus not getting a standard action to attack.
But a Swift Action is used as part of a Move Action. So if I shoot while flying, thus using my ONLY action as a drone, there is no move to roll for this.
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That is pretty much how I read it. Going from the ground to hovering is a move action but once it is hovering it only would use the move action for actually moving either in some direction or up and down. Otherwise it would just be holding position otherwise the hover drone would make zero sense having to constantly take off and land to shoot.Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
I agree. I would houserule that. I imagine the rules for hovering was meant to apply to creatures with wings and not rotators.
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But it is a swift action if you succeed at an Acrobatics check.Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
HOVER
Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall.So without using Master's Control, you have to use a move action to hover. Thus not getting a standard action to attack.
Only if you have perfect maneuverability, which drones can't get. They also don't have swift actions, and you can't give them yours unless you also give them your move action. Really there must be something missing here, as RAW a flying creature can never full attack or take a full action, no matter what their maneuverability unless they land. You'd always have to use at least your swift action or crash. Since flying doesn't get you out of range of much of anything it seems like it will have lost a lot of its use in thise case in combat.
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With things as they are you couldn't make a functional mechanic that flies with his drone. Either the drone or the mechanic would have to use their standard action as a move each turn they're both in the air. Even ignoring full attacks you could only shoot once each turn between the two of them.
I kind of feel like they should give the drone a move action, maybe one that can only be used to move and not for anything else. Maybe as part of the flight mod?
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I'm truly hoping for this to find it's way into the FAQ, an errata, or just have an official ruling on here.
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I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
You have a good point, and I've been considering that as well. But that's why I'm asking to get the clarification that it seems more and more people want.
Also yeah I plan on using Master's Control like 99% of the time, this is for the other 1%. Or dealing with Rule Lawyers, lol.
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I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
But you still have to use actions even with perfect fly, at least a swift action. Just seems odd to bother with a specificity flying drone, specifically with a weapon mount, so the clear intention is that it flys and attacks, but if it shoots it crashes. I wouldn't have much issue if it had the camera mod instead of the weapon. I'd just feel like it was a generally inferior scout, but still had possibilities. But having flight and weapons as the must haves seems very ill planned.
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But you still have to use actions even with perfect fly, at least a swift action. Just seems odd to bother with a specificity flying drone, specifically with a weapon mount, so the clear intention is that it flys and attacks, but if it shoots it crashes. I wouldn't have much issue if it had the camera mod instead of the weapon. I'd just feel like it was a generally inferior scout, but still had possibilities. But having flight and weapons as the must haves seems very ill planned.I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
It is an armed scout.
It doesn't crash if it shoots, you can use master control and give up your move to (effectively) get an extra standard. It can fly to high ground and shoot. It has a lot of options even before you get to 7th level.
But you still have to use actions even with perfect fly, at least a swift action. Just seems odd to bother with a specificity flying drone, specifically with a weapon mount, so the clear intention is that it flys and attacks, but if it shoots it crashes. I wouldn't have much issue if it had the camera mod instead of the weapon. I'd just feel like it was a generally inferior scout, but still had possibilities. But having flight and weapons as the must haves seems very ill planned.I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
It is an armed scout.
It doesn't crash if it shoots, you can use master control and give up your move to (effectively) get an extra standard. It can fly to high ground and shoot. It has a lot of options even before you get to 7th level.
Again I made this with keeping in mind Master's Control is out of the question.
Only if you have perfect maneuverability, which drones can't get. They also don't have swift actions, and you can't give them yours unless you also give them your move action. Really there must be something missing here, as RAW a flying creature can never full attack or take a full action, no matter what their maneuverability unless they land. You'd always have to use at least your swift action or crash. Since flying doesn't get you out of range of much of anything it seems like it will have lost a lot of its use in thise case in combat.But it is a swift action if you succeed at an Acrobatics check.Since it has a fly speed, I would imagine to start hovering is a move action, but once it is in the air, it is constantly hovering without a constant need for an action to be spent to keep it in the air.So a drone only gets a move or a standard action. I know the Mechanic can override this with Master's Control, but that's not the point for this scenario.
So as a Hover Drone with a weapon mounted how do you attack without falling during flight? Seeing as to hover is done as a move action, but you can't move if you attack.
HOVER
Safe flight typically requires momentum. If you wish to stay in place, or hover, while flying, you must attempt an Acrobatics check as a move action. If you fail, you fall.So without using Master's Control, you have to use a move action to hover. Thus not getting a standard action to attack.
Thought it was a period and not a comma lol
Eh. I can maybe see how this is something they thought would balance the game perhaps mechanically, but it removes that special-ness I got from a mechanic with a hover drone. lol I guess it is cheaper than buying a Spy Drone, but eh.
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And I intend to ignore this bit of rules lawyering, mainly because "Hover" is right in the name, and that is RAW enough for me.
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Personally I'd prefer if the flight rules were changed to be much more lenient. I'd much rather have fights where characters are darting through the air on jet packs than have an entire party immediately land on finding a fight so they can shoot twice, shoot and reload, use automatic weapons, or any of the other dozen full actions they may have. Flight isn't all that powerful when almost everyone is shooting guns. At least not as a combat tool in my opinion.
I agree, especially when pretty much anyone can have at least limited flight after level two
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I can kind of see how things would go under the current model.
GM: As you fly along over the rolling plain you see a dozen swarm warriors coming at you at about the same height with some sort of rifles. They'll be within range of you in a few moments but with a little skill you should be able to get a controlling position above them.
Player: Ok, we land quickly.
GM: Sure, I'll just need an acrobatics roll to see how high you... wait what?
Player: Well there are more of them but we can fire twice if we land, and they can't, and they'll have to stop shooting back to reload.
GM(looking at to solarion player): What about you? Want to close with them?
Solarion Player: Nah, I can't keep up with their move speeds, and I don't want to have to keep darting around chasing them. I'll just land and shoot with the others. If one of them lands I'll take some swipes at it then.
I can see a serious headache with trying to run a flying combat. As if keeping track of elevation isn't hard enough. You also have to deal with a ton of AoOs since most things won't be able to hover. Hence a lot of people will have to fly by melee opponents. I'm guessing from the Off-kilter rules you might not be able to AoO. But it will be a very complex set of what ifs.
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I've been in a combat as a mechanic with a flying drone and it was pretty smooth. My character was an active participant, and held his own with the others, maybe even did a little better.
Sure, I don't get full attacks (either me or my drone) but I still get two attacks, and with higher bonuses to hit than someone doing a full attack. I think that's the balance they were after.
Would it be keen if my drone just floated there without an action? Sure! But I think that's more power than they intended the drone to have.
This is game balance at play I think, and it seems (so far in my limited experience) to work well.
I've been in a combat as a mechanic with a flying drone and it was pretty smooth. My character was an active participant, and held his own with the others, maybe even did a little better.
Sure, I don't get full attacks (either me or my drone) but I still get two attacks, and with higher bonuses to hit than someone doing a full attack. I think that's the balance they were after.
Would it be keen if my drone just floated there without an action? Sure! But I think that's more power than they intended the drone to have.
This is game balance at play I think, and it seems (so far in my limited experience) to work well.
Let me guess, Master's Control you get a standard (attack) and the Drone gets a move and standard (attack)? That's fine and all, but what I'm asking is if the Mechanic has to move, like out of a hazard, and takes a standard to use a serum or something. Then all the Drone has is a standard or a move, if it attacks does that mean it falls out of the sky? Since it doesn't have a move or swift to roll any kind of fly check to stay up.
Note that the hover drone has a land speed equal to its fly speed, so it does have the option to land if the mechanic doesn't want to waste actions keeping it in flight on future turns.
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Note that the hover drone has a land speed equal to its fly speed, so it does have the option to land if the mechanic doesn't want to waste actions keeping it in flight on future turns.
True, but that kinda defeats the point of a "HOVER" drone.
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Again I made this with keeping in mind Master's Control is out of the question.But you still have to use actions even with perfect fly, at least a swift action. Just seems odd to bother with a specificity flying drone, specifically with a weapon mount, so the clear intention is that it flys and attacks, but if it shoots it crashes. I wouldn't have much issue if it had the camera mod instead of the weapon. I'd just feel like it was a generally inferior scout, but still had possibilities. But having flight and weapons as the must haves seems very ill planned.I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
It is an armed scout.
It doesn't crash if it shoots, you can use master control and give up your move to (effectively) get an extra standard. It can fly to high ground and shoot. It has a lot of options even before you get to 7th level.
But master control is the part of the class feature that lets the rest of the class work.
That is like starting a question in pathfinder by saying "Yes, I know that 99% of the time, my character will have both hands available, but for that 1% of the time when I only have one hand free, how does two weapon fighting work. It says right there in the name that I can 2 weapon fight, so I should be able to do that all the time, even when I only have one hand."
Again I made this with keeping in mind Master's Control is out of the question.But you still have to use actions even with perfect fly, at least a swift action. Just seems odd to bother with a specificity flying drone, specifically with a weapon mount, so the clear intention is that it flys and attacks, but if it shoots it crashes. I wouldn't have much issue if it had the camera mod instead of the weapon. I'd just feel like it was a generally inferior scout, but still had possibilities. But having flight and weapons as the must haves seems very ill planned.I am pretty sure this is intentional. Either use your master control, perch, or don't shoot.
Remember, your drone can fly, but it doesn't *have* to fly. It has a perfectly good 30 foot land speed too.
I am sure if they meant it to have effortless hover, they would have 1. said so, 2. given it perfect maneuverability, not average.
It is an armed scout.
It doesn't crash if it shoots, you can use master control and give up your move to (effectively) get an extra standard. It can fly to high ground and shoot. It has a lot of options even before you get to 7th level.
But master control is the part of the class feature that lets the rest of the class work.
That is like starting a question in pathfinder by saying "Yes, I know that 99% of the time, my character will have both hands available, but for that 1% of the time when I only have one hand free, how does two weapon fighting work. It says right there in the name that I can 2 weapon fight, so I should be able to do that all the time, even when I only have one hand."
Look I'm saying oh no were up against "X" it's shooting a never ending stream of fire at us. My Mechanic has to keep moving to stay out of it, as well as drink a serum to stay in the fight. But now my drone only has one action and we know "X" is low on HP so I want to attack.
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All I'm saying is that a stealth or combat drone can stop to attack on their own. Yet if a hover drone does then by RAW it is going to take fall damage.
This reminds me, can anyone actually find any rules for fall damage?
look in the part with gravity rules. However I am not sure that is gave all the details but I think it mentioned fall damage increasing with higher gravity.
Page 400, 1d6 per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6.
Again it's not about the choice, it's about being put into a situation where there is no other choice. I'd like to have an answer for just in case.
Here's an example of a situation a player can face and as a GM I would like to know if i make them roll or just deal with the drone falling.
I force the party to split into solo paths, and for the Mechanic I have them captured and restrained to a HELPLESS state, thus no move or standard actions. I have the player then play as the drone, hover drone of course, trying to save him. The drone finds the Mechanic, but the only way to save him is to shoot a target that is only visible when flying 60 feet in the air. So the Drone flies up on the first and second rounds, the next it fires.... at this point it has used it's one action. Does it fall and take 6d6 damage, and thus make for a bad "hover" drone? Or where the developers going for something else?
True, but that kinda defeats the point of a "HOVER" drone.Note that the hover drone has a land speed equal to its fly speed, so it does have the option to land if the mechanic doesn't want to waste actions keeping it in flight on future turns.
Not entirely. If it can land on a high altitude location, it retains its advantage over other drone types even when not actually hovering.
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The drone doesn't need to attack every round. When I needed to move and attack, I moved and attacked and the drone just flew into a better position for the next round. Think of it like the drone give you an extra move or standard, but not both.
daviscd, in your example, the drone would just land and shoot. Sure it is able to hover, which is great but it doesn't have to hover to act. It has a ground speed too.
I think it's well balanced and look forward to playing my Mechanic.
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Here's an example of a situation a player can face and as a GM I would like to know if i make them roll or just deal with the drone falling.
I force the party to split into solo paths, and for the Mechanic I have them captured and restrained to a HELPLESS state, thus no move or standard actions. I have the player then play as the drone, hover drone of course, trying to save him. The drone finds the Mechanic, but the only way to save him is to shoot a target that is only visible when flying 60 feet in the air. So the Drone flies up on the first and second rounds, the next it fires.... at this point it has used it's one action. Does it fall and take 6d6 damage, and thus make for a bad "hover" drone? Or where the developers going for something else?
I'm pretty sure if I had the inclination I could contrive a scenario to invalidate near any ability. I'm not sure failing such a scenario makes that ability bad.
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.That is like starting a question in pathfinder by saying "Yes, I know that 99% of the time, my character will have both hands available, but for that 1% of the time when I only have one hand free, how does two weapon fighting work. It says right there in the name that I can 2 weapon fight, so I should be able to do that all the time, even when I only have one hand."
Not in my mind, the problem to me is that the mechanic has a pile of things to do with their move action. Overcharge, feint with distracting hack, overload weapon, invisibility hampering projector. More I'm sure I missed in a quick read through and plus the other options every class has, barricade, adaptive fighting, drawing a weapon, reloading, moving, flying and so on. I personally doubt I'll do a full attack with my drone mechanic or use master's control almost ever because I'll have so much else to do. The advantage of drones is that they grant an extra action, the hover drone cost you that action any time you want to use it as intended.
Again it's not about the choice, it's about being put into a situation where there is no other choice. I'd like to have an answer for just in case.I don't understand why you keep asking an answered question though. The rules are pretty clear?
It's seems to me everyone is saying use Master's Control, land, or don't shoot. No one is actually answering the question of if a hover drone shoots, does it end up being out of luck and falling.
No one is giving a simple yes or no answer to that.
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Again it's not about the choice, it's about being put into a situation where there is no other choice. I'd like to have an answer for just in case.I don't understand why you keep asking an answered question though. The rules are pretty clear?It's seems to me everyone is saying use Master's Control, land, or don't shoot. No one is actually answering the question of if a hover drone shoots, does it end up being out of luck and falling.
No one is giving a simple yes or no answer to that.
The situation you described is impossible: your drone cannot take any actions if you become unresponsive (such as by being Unconscious or Helpless), and if you could take actions while in captivity, there's no reason for you NOT to donate your move/swift actions to give the drone a full round to save you.
If you decide not to anyway - yes - your drone would plummet 60ft after the kickback of the shot unbalances it.
Each round on your turn, after you have acted, your drone can take either a move action or a standard action to attack (your drone doesn’t make a separate initiative roll). You must be able to issue simple commands to your drone, but you don’t have to spend actions to issue these commands. To receive these commands, your drone must be able to see or hear you or be within range of your custom rig. If you become unconscious or otherwise unresponsive, or if your drone is ever out of range, your drone cannot take any actions until you are again able to command it or it is once more within range.
It does seem odd that the hover drone does a lot better when not using hover as a tactic. It seems way better for it to always fly up to some perch and then fire on enemies from up there. Now granted there won't always be a perch, but the majority of the time there probably would be.
Maybe we should rename it to the perching drone.
