Weakest / strongest / favorite Class of each Chassis


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I'm actually very shocked that a large amount of people here are saying the kineticist is strong.

Did they pick up some good options in a book after Occult Adventures?

Grand Lodge

Triune wrote:

I'm actually very shocked that a large amount of people here are saying the kineticist is strong.

Did they pick up some good options in a book after Occult Adventures?

Yes

Also, low optimization floor. A badly-built single-classed kineticist does about the same damage as a well-built one. Unlike other classes in the same bracket.


Arutema wrote:
Triune wrote:

I'm actually very shocked that a large amount of people here are saying the kineticist is strong.

Did they pick up some good options in a book after Occult Adventures?

Yes

Also, low optimization floor. A badly-built single-classed kineticist does about the same damage as a well-built one. Unlike other classes in the same bracket.

Besides... Their competition is what? Rogues and vanilla Monk? Doesn't need much to win against those.


Ahh, the kineticist. Another underrated class.


weakest

Full BAB, no spells: Swashbuckler. EASY. So many terrible design decisions... That's what you get when you completely ignore all feedback.
Full BAB, 4th spells: Eh... They're pretty balanced among themselves. Ranger, maybe?
3/4 BAB, no casting: Vanilla Rogue, or course.
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: Medium by default, of course.
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: Do Magical Child vigilantes count? If they don't, I'd say a tie between Spiritualist and Occultist.
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: Oracle.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: Psychic.

- - -

strongest

Full BAB, no spells: Barbarian.
Full BAB, 4th spells: Paladins are pretty awesome.
3/4 BAB, no casting: Kineticist. Not ebcause ti's super strong, but because everyone else in this category is pretty crappy.
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: Still medium.
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: Vanilla Summoner, of course. If that doesn't count... I don't know... Maybe Bards?
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: At absolute highest level of optimization... Cleric. Usually Shaman or Druid, though.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: I don't know... Arcanist are basically Sorcerer+++, but Wizards are still really powerful.

- - -
favorite

Full BAB, no spells: Vigilante.
Full BAB, 4th spells: Rangers and Paladins are tied!
3/4 BAB, no casting: Kineticist... Again, because there isn't much competition in this category.
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: Medium by default, but I don't really care about the class.
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: Inquisitors and Bard.
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: Druid.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: Probably Sorcerer

- - -
least favorite

Full BAB, no spells: Swashbucklers. Closely followed by Cavalier. The former is painful to look at and see the wasted opportunity... The latter is just completely forgettable.
Full BAB, 4th spells: Bloodragers, I guess.
3/4 BAB, no casting: vanilla Rogues. Cool concept, terrible execution.
3/4 BAB, 4th casting: Stupid Mediums...
3/4 BAB, 6th casting: Spiritualist. Never felt like playing one.
3/4 BAB, 9th casting: Cleric... Just because they are so damn boring to build.
1/2 BAB, 9th casting: Arcanist. Doesn't really add anything new to the game. Should have been just an alternate casting system or something.


^Arcanist adds class features other than spellcasting. Arcanist is what Wizard should have been an archetype of . . . actually, it sort of is.


this comparative thing goes on a lot...

my favorite and most powerful class (once mid to high level) is the wizard with a bonded object(amulet). The Diviner school specialization has a good mix for PFS.
The spell lists and knowing what spell is needed when takes a lot of memorization and expertise. I believe this front loaded learning curve bogs down the popularity for most folks. You also need multiple source materials for good versatility although 3-4 books should suffice.

The Tattooed Sorcerer is more powerful than a wizard at low to mid levels but lacks the versatility of the Wizard. The class pays more for spell storage(Runestones) etc which combined with their spell list restrictions, bloodlines, and low skill points makes it worse after higher levels.

While the Arcanist took the best of both worlds, the powers don't scale well and they end up behind the Wizard but ahead of the Sorcerer.


Interestingly according to Weirdo's tallying up the consensus is that in that Chassis the Arcanist and Psychic are most often fingered as the weakest.

With 3 a piece, the sorc only being mentioned once.

The reasons generally sighted being

Psychic: Worse spell list than the wiz/sorc list and spontaneous.

Archanist: Sorcerer spell progression with Wizards spell slots means that in the early levels they have so few resources that they lag to far behind


I believe with Psychic casting action economy takes a hit,

OA pg 144 wrote:
Thought components are so mentally demanding that they make interruptions and distractions extremely challenging. The DC for any concentration check for a spell with a thought component increases by 10. A psychic spellcaster casting a spell with a thought component can take a move action before beginning to cast the spell to center herself; she can then use the normal DC instead of the increased DC.

sure sounds like a lot of move actions going to lower DCs... Casting Defensively then takes a move to center(to avoid a high DC), another move action(avoid provoking), and then the casting time... hmmm....

Arcanists lag a level behind on spell level access, but they do get 2 more base spells per level.

I think the trick is versatility. Versatility is not so important at low levels but at 12th level plus it's needed as monsters have SR, DR, specific immunities, etc etc. Wizards have to work around this or just buff the party with old standbys.

I'll throw in that Amulet of Spell Mastery gives a Wizard 6 extra spell levels per day to work with. As a bonded object it's half price. Amulet of Magecraft has interesting abilities for Universalists.

well - enough rambling...


How often do you have to make concentration checks?

I played a Mesmerist for two years and made two that I can remember. The trick is to not be close enough to them to need to cast defensively ;)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I made it to third level once. my pig lasted quite a bit longer.


Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

How often do you have to make concentration checks?

I played a Mesmerist for two years and made two that I can remember. The trick is to not be close enough to them to need to cast defensively ;)

Or just painful stare them down once they do. (I have this thing where can cast in fullplate becomes will cast in fullplate, so I keep dipping for proficiencies)

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