Operative Optimization


Advice

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Ravingdork wrote:
Yeah, I did something similar as well with my skill monkey.

Yeah is pretty good, but I guess that for scouting the better one is the scout, because there will be moments that you will seriously need to phase to escape or to get invisible while moving at 70 feets or more depending on your upgrades...

BTW I love all your PF build and I have your blog as favorite.


Jack everything looks like it would line up. You'd have the +4 BAB at level 5 for shot on the run so everything looks legal.

I'm unsure how alien archive and jack of all trades work together. They both double your operative's edge bonus.

How exactly are you getting +17 Life Science and +14 Mysticism? Is this untrained or with 8 ranks? Can't tell from the way you wrote it.

I'm not sure if I would want to delay all my trick attack dice and other operative abilities by one level but if anything would make it worth it I suppose it would be Blitz soldier.


Patryn- wrote:

Jack everything looks like it would line up. You'd have the +4 BAB at level 5 for shot on the run so everything looks legal.

I'm unsure how alien archive and jack of all trades work together. They both double your operative's edge bonus.

How exactly are you getting +17 Life Science and +14 Mysticism? Is this untrained or with 8 ranks? Can't tell from the way you wrote it.

I'm not sure if I would want to delay all my trick attack dice and other operative abilities by one level but if anything would make it worth it I suppose it would be Blitz soldier.

I directly apologize for my bad english, I'm not native english so I know the words but a few times I mess with the sense of the idea.

Jack Brightbuilder wrote:
Patryn- wrote:

Hello everyone, I'm planning on playing an operative in our first campaign and like to get the most out of characters I play. I plan to max Dex and keep Int and Str competitive to be able to melee and fulfill the skill monkey role.

I'd like to know what people think about this build and if I should change anything. I'm open to all improvement suggestions.

** spoiler omitted **

...

The Spacefarer gives you the Phisical Science Class Skill, that is a +3, Edge x2 at lvl 8 for Alien Archive is +6 and 8 Ranks for +17 without Int Modifier that should be +3 (14 +2 @5) and be 20 if Trained.

Without Training and allowing mix Jack of All trades and Alien Archive, It will be Edge x3 that is +9, +3 In Modifier and +2 for Spacefarer for a +14 total.

I wrong writed between Mysticism and Life Science, my bad.

The blitz soldier is usefull for the movement and for the initiative, because you will need to react as fast as hell and move like that fast to escape even using jet dash to escape like no other..

Edit:
Mysticism will be +16 with with 8 ranks: NO Class Skill and Wisdom 1 point lower than int.
And will be +13 if untrained and exploits mixed up.

I was reading another tread where someone says yes and other not. I guess DM choice. The tread is this : Stacking Exploit


Ah that makes sense, yeah you could definitely be the supreme physical science user with Alien Archive. My only concern would be what you'd actually be making knowledge checks for.

The table on page 133 shows the identify creature checks and you will use either Life Science, Mysticism, or Engineering.

At level 8 Life Science untrained would be +14 like you said assuming +3 from Int. Mysticism would be +12 assuming +1 from Wis.

DCs to identify would at CR 8 would be 17, 22, or 27 depending on how rare the creature is so while scouting you could take 10 against common and average monsters and have an okay chance to identify rare monsters (40% for life science and 30% for mysticism).


Patryn- wrote:

Ah that makes sense, yeah you could definitely be the supreme physical science user with Alien Archive. My only concern would be what you'd actually be making knowledge checks for.

The table on page 133 shows the identify creature checks and you will use either Life Science, Mysticism, or Engineering.

At level 8 Life Science untrained would be +14 like you said assuming +3 from Int. Mysticism would be +12 assuming +1 from Wis.

DCs to identify would at CR 8 would be 17, 22, or 27 depending on how rare the creature is so while scouting you could take 10 against common and average monsters and have an okay chance to identify rare monsters (40% for life science and 30% for mysticism).

Actually I just realized that I got confused between Physical Science and Life Science...

Indeed right now is not so really attractive to make the knowledge check because is pretty tough to do.

Spacefarer is still good with Jack of All Trades of Operative, but not with knowledge checks.


I'm tremendously interested in playing a Shirren Operative (ever since it occured to me I can make Krombopulos Michael) and I'm curious to see what everyone thinks of the Shirren racial abilities as an Operative. Not the optimal race I'm sure, but I'm okay with that.

I'm not actually playing Krombopulos Michael. Rather a socially-anxious fellow who uses cloaking devices to avoid talking to people.


+2 Wis +2 Con -2 Cha stat modifiers isn't ideal. I'm leaving Wis and Con at 10 for mine so that will cost you 4 points of Int/Dex. Dumping Cha is fine. Getting +1 Save to Fort and Will is a decent consolation though.

Blindsense seems great against invisible creatures but they still have full concealment which means a 50% miss chance but at least you know where they are. Thirty foot range is a bit small though.

Communalism is strong. A free double roll once per day on any attack or skill check is awesome.

+2 Culture and Diplomacy is okay. The Culture is much more useful because your 8 Charisma is and no class skill bonus for Diplomacy is going to make that check pretty bad.

Telepathy is always handy.

Overall not the greatest but if it fits your character's theme go for it. You get 4 more HP than a Ysoki or Halfling and 2 HP more than an Android which will make you more durable at level 1. I'd go for 10/16/12/14/12/8 or 10/18/12/12/12/8.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
User Error wrote:

I'm tremendously interested in playing a Shirren Operative (ever since it occured to me I can make Krombopulos Michael) and I'm curious to see what everyone thinks of the Shirren racial abilities as an Operative. Not the optimal race I'm sure, but I'm okay with that.

I'm not actually playing Krombopulos Michael. Rather a socially-anxious fellow who uses cloaking devices to avoid talking to people.

One of my friends wants to do this too.


Shirren actually might not make bad melee operatives, due to their blindsense working at short range, their extra HP, and their constitution boost. Best specializations are probably the dexterity-focused ones (Daredevil, Ghost, or Thief) or the wisdom-focused ones (Detective or Explorer).


User Error wrote:

I'm tremendously interested in playing a Shirren Operative (ever since it occured to me I can make Krombopulos Michael) and I'm curious to see what everyone thinks of the Shirren racial abilities as an Operative. Not the optimal race I'm sure, but I'm okay with that.

I'm not actually playing Krombopulos Michael. Rather a socially-anxious fellow who uses cloaking devices to avoid talking to people.

In addition to what I already wrote you could use the ability array rules to ignore the racial and theme bonuses and just assign either 18/14/11/10/10/10 or 16/16/11/10/10/10 among your stats however you like.

One last thought I had is you could go Android that looks like a Shirren. The Android section says rarely they customize themselves to look like other races so it's a possibility...


I wanted to revisit some DPR numbers now that the Ferrans have come out. They get to add their level to damage on the first hit after moving at least 10 feet. Seems perfect for a melee focused Operative.

Their starting stats aren't great, so I decided to use the quick pick to get 14 Str, 18 Dex, and 11/10/10/10 for the others. Boost Str and Dex four times and put your +6 in Dex and your +4 in Str to end up with 28 Dex (+9) and 24 Str (+7). I'm using the 35 EAC 37 KAC from the alien archive level 20 combatant. All final DPR numbers include crits including one round of corrode damage for the disintegrator pistol.

Trick Attack Baton, advanced:
8d6+10d8+17+20 = 110 vs 37 KAC = 71.5 DPR (72.8 if you get +9 Str)

Full Attack Baton, advanced
32d6+68 = 180 vs 37 KAC = 63 DPR (65.8 if you get +9 Str)

Trick Attack Gyrojet pistol, elite:
5d12+10d8+10 = 87.5 vs 37 KAC = 56.875 DPR

Full Attack Gyrojet pistol, elite:
20d12+40 = 170 vs 37 KAC = 59.5 DPR

Trick Attack Disintegrator pistol, eradicator:
3d20+10d8+10 = 86.5 vs 35 EAC = 65.225 DPR

Full Attack Disintegrator pistol, eradicator:
12d20+40 = 166 vs 35 EAC = 76.1 DPR

Looks like the new Ferran race will be the king of melee trick attacks but anyone with a Disintegrator pistol within 30 ft would do more full attacking thanks to targeting EAC and it's extra damage on crit. I do like the idea of the Ferran with spring attack being able to get into and out of melee with the operative's high speed and being able to put out maximum trick attack DPR.


By the way, on the Ghost operative issue, I think that the +4 trick attack is justified. Ghosts are the only specialization, besides Spies, that use trick attack with one of the three base trick attack skills (stealth, bluff, and intimidate). Since Ghosts use stealth, they need the +4 to give them a benefit from this. Spies get a +4 but bluff isn't Dex, so there is no real precedent. This is just blatant guessing, so it may be wrong.


Can Operatives use Tumble to get out of mele range and avoid AAO as part of a trick attack?


No, you can't because tumble is a move action and trick attack is a full action. You can take the Uncanny Mobility at level 2 though to not provoke against your target.

Silver Crusade

That's why I just took Mobility as my first feat. I figure I can just keep my AC high and not worry about provoking, since they won't hit very often even when I do provoke.

Silver Crusade

Before I open a new thread I will just post it here.
I need feat advise for the 3rd or 5th level feat

I have a Android Ghost Sholar(Phy,Sci) Operative with these stats 10/18/14/13/10/8
1. Spellbane 2. Weapon Focus 3. Mobility or ??? 4. Holographic Exploit
5. ??? or Mobility 6. Staggering Shot 7. Enhance Resistance 8. Shot and Run 9. Deadly Aim?

I don't want to take Greater Fortitude and I think Dealy aim before lvl 9 is kinda wasted.

I looking at Skill Focus or Skill Synergy (Life Sci/Mystisim).
For Skill focus im not sure which Skill I should abuse with the Take 10 from LvL 7 onwards.

What is your opinion on this matter? Maybe you even have a complete different feat you would suggest.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Unless they sort out the Insight bonus problem, which affects quite a few classes, I wouldn't take any more Skill Focus feats beyond the two you are given for free, as it won't stack with the Operative's existing bonus, which doesn't suck. At 7th level Operative's Edge is at +3, so Skill Focus will be mostly useless, except for the ability to now take 10 when in a pressure situation due to Specialization Skill Mastery.

Scarab Sages

Toughness and Improved Initiative never go out of style.


If you don't want the save buffs (which I like but are admittedly boring) I'd recommend Sky Jockey and Fleet for more mobility or Toughness for more stamina.

The feat mobility itself has less value to me since you can already disable attacks of opportunity with Uncanny Mobility. Mobility is a tax for Shot on the Run / Spring Attack so if you're going Mobility at 3 definitely get the second part at 5 for whichever play style you're going for.

Also I would recommend against deadly aim, mathematically it's almost never worth using due to lowering your hit chance.

Silver Crusade

Shot and Run/Spring Attack both need BAB+4 so earliest is lvl 6.
Fleet is kinda meh since i already have a 10ft boost.

Sky Jockey would be kinda fun if i install jet pack/jumpers into my andriods armor slot.

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