Character Building in SFS


Starfinder Society

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**** Venture-Agent, Washington—Tacoma aka Link2000

Disk Elemental wrote:

I think you've just proven my point... despite the fact I explicitly mentioned Mechanics as the exception to the rule, because of drone customization, all of the Mechanics had points in the exact same stats, with little variation between them. You all played the 2 races compatible with the class, and all took the obvious specializations, because, again, you kinda had to to be relevant. In the end, the characters all did the exact same things; they were a little shooty, and a little skill-y.

Starfinder has taken a system whose biggest selling point was choice, and have compacted it down to 2-3 obvious choices.

They were very different... I'm not sure if you read my post correctly, but I was VERY skilly, little shooty. The "Ace Pilot" was very shooty, had Minor Psychic powers and outside of a small handful of skills wasn't very skill based. He used his drone for recon. The lady playing the "Combat Medic/Engineer" used the drone for her main combat capabilities, spending her actions on using her Medic feat. I don't see how those did "the exact same thing".

Disk Elemental wrote:


It very much is. Just going out of the core rules, I can make at least 3 different Bards, with different stat arrays, that all handle significantly different from one another, and bring different skill sets to the table. That's to say nothing of the ludicrous options from any of the full-casters.

Really? The big difference between bards is the same big difference between fighters, what skills you pick, what feats you pick, and are you melee or ranged. They have benefit of a different spell selection.

But I'm game, what Starfinder Class would you like me to make significantly different builds with? I'm willing to bet I can make 4 significantly different builds at level 1 for any Stardfinder Class. Assuming of course you interpret significantly different builds in the same fashion or more as your "significantly" different bards.

Disk Elemental wrote:


CMD is KAC+8, with the feat it goes down to KAC+4. Characters already have problems hitting, adding 4 to the enemy AC, only to not deal damage, is overly punishing.

Compared to pathfinder that says in order to do a SINGLE combat maneuver without risking getting knocked out, requires two feats with ability prerequisites. I'll take it. At level 1 it stinks, but I'm willing to see what mid level brings, because that's when Combat Maneuvers start to fail in Pathfinder without min-maxing the build.

**** Venture-Agent, Washington—Tacoma aka Link2000

Iziah Gile wrote:
Tyler Reid wrote:
Iziah Gile 288 wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
Starfinder definitely encourages spreading points out more than Pathfinder does.
This is flat out incorrect. *math and reasoning above*
And at 1st level, that's true. What about 5th level (Easily within reason for SFS as time goes forward)? *math and examples above*

Well, at 5th level, SF start forcing you to spread out your points more. You are required to select 4 stats and give them bumps based on their current value. Even a hyperfocused character is going to get +7 (+1 to his best stat, +2 to 3 others of his choice, presumably one of them his secondary focus) to his stats, divided up. A less focused character will get 8 instead.

So, I feel it's less "SF encourages you to spread out your attribute points", more "SF FORCES you to spread out your attribute points as you go up in level". Not that I think this is bad, just that it's required, not agency of the player.

It's also required to increase ability scores in Pathfinder, but in Pathfinder you kind of have to keep raising that main ability score or you're going to fall behind when it comes to the enemies, making your character even more "shoeboxed" into it's role. I personally think it's great that at higher levels the character can grow into a smarter, wiser, version of themselves from adventures ago, where as Pathfinder we're kind of the same guy except better at what we were already good at.

*

Tyler Reid wrote:
Iziah Gile wrote:


So, I feel it's less "SF encourages you to spread out your attribute points", more "SF FORCES you to spread out your attribute points as you go up in level". Not that I think this is bad, just that it's required, not agency of the player.
It's also required to increase ability scores in Pathfinder, but in Pathfinder you kind of have to keep raising that main ability score or you're going to fall behind when it comes to the enemies, making your character even more "shoeboxed" into it's role. I personally think it's great that at higher levels the character can grow into a smarter, wiser, version of themselves from adventures ago, where as Pathfinder we're kind of the same guy except better at what we were already good at.

I can agree with that! I only disagree with it being a player choice, when it's a system choice =) It's a system decision I'm 100% behind, though


I'm thinking of going with an 8 Con. Would never do that in PFS, but thinking the effect is not as bad in SFS.

Lashunta Pilot Mystic S10 D15 Cn8 I12 W16 Ch12. Healer. S5/HP9/R4 Specializing in Pilot and Diplomacy, so can work as Pilot or Captain in Ship Combat.

Any other thoughts of going with 8 Con?

Thanks!

*

Iziah Gile wrote:
Tyler Reid wrote:
Iziah Gile wrote:


So, I feel it's less "SF encourages you to spread out your attribute points", more "SF FORCES you to spread out your attribute points as you go up in level". Not that I think this is bad, just that it's required, not agency of the player.
It's also required to increase ability scores in Pathfinder, but in Pathfinder you kind of have to keep raising that main ability score or you're going to fall behind when it comes to the enemies, making your character even more "shoeboxed" into it's role. I personally think it's great that at higher levels the character can grow into a smarter, wiser, version of themselves from adventures ago, where as Pathfinder we're kind of the same guy except better at what we were already good at.
I can agree with that! I only disagree with it being a player choice, when it's a system choice =) It's a system decision I'm 100% behind, though

Coming back to this after a night of sleep, Pathfinder, via overall game balance, encourages players to Min-Max attributes to a point. Like you said, if you don't continue investment, you risk falling behind.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out in Starfinder. With less bonuses available overall, Hitting opponents is already less guaranteed, ect ect. Will this act as a reason to diversify mechanically, or will it encourage ppl to hyperfocus their builds to gain any little scrap of advantage they can? If you've only got a 25% chance at hitting, for example, even gaining a +1 is a 20% increase in your chance to hit. But that's wandering from the concept of attributes specifically.

Fred Strauss wrote:

I'm thinking of going with an 8 Con. Would never do that in PFS, but thinking the effect is not as bad in SFS.

Lashunta Pilot Mystic S10 D15 Cn8 I12 W16 Ch12. Healer. S5/HP9/R4 Specializing in Pilot and Diplomacy, so can work as Pilot or Captain in Ship Combat.

Any other thoughts of going with 8 Con?

Thanks!

I mean, it's a risk, but between what seems to be lower damages generally, negative HP being written out, starship combats where your character is not personally at risk, and a combined health pool (stam + HP) higher than PF, I can see it potentially working out. Easily working out if you wanted to focus on starship combat mods.

**** Venture-Agent, Washington—Tacoma aka Link2000

Fred Strauss wrote:

I'm thinking of going with an 8 Con. Would never do that in PFS, but thinking the effect is not as bad in SFS.

Lashunta Pilot Mystic S10 D15 Cn8 I12 W16 Ch12. Healer. S5/HP9/R4 Specializing in Pilot and Diplomacy, so can work as Pilot or Captain in Ship Combat.

Any other thoughts of going with 8 Con?

Thanks!

With the loss being less stamina and fort saves, I don't think it's horrible overall, although the fort save penalty will hurt down the line. I say nothing ventured nothing learned!

**** Venture-Agent, Washington—Tacoma aka Link2000

Iziah Gile wrote:
Iziah Gile wrote:
Tyler Reid wrote:
Iziah Gile wrote:


So, I feel it's less "SF encourages you to spread out your attribute points", more "SF FORCES you to spread out your attribute points as you go up in level". Not that I think this is bad, just that it's required, not agency of the player.
It's also required to increase ability scores in Pathfinder, but in Pathfinder you kind of have to keep raising that main ability score or you're going to fall behind when it comes to the enemies, making your character even more "shoeboxed" into it's role. I personally think it's great that at higher levels the character can grow into a smarter, wiser, version of themselves from adventures ago, where as Pathfinder we're kind of the same guy except better at what we were already good at.
I can agree with that! I only disagree with it being a player choice, when it's a system choice =) It's a system decision I'm 100% behind, though

Coming back to this after a night of sleep, Pathfinder, via overall game balance, encourages players to Min-Max attributes to a point. Like you said, if you don't continue investment, you risk falling behind.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out in Starfinder. With less bonuses available overall, Hitting opponents is already less guaranteed, ect ect. Will this act as a reason to diversify mechanically, or will it encourage ppl to hyperfocus their builds to gain any little scrap of advantage they can? If you've only got a 25% chance at hitting, for example, even gaining a +1 is a 20% increase in your chance to hit. But that's wandering from the concept of attributes specifically.

The "hitting" portion doesn't seem like it will be too much an issue later on as it looks like 1 attack turns are going to be a staple for the majority of combats, even at high levels. Armor has so far seemed like a pretty twisted joke. All classes are at least 3/4 BAB, and many offer something to increase the ability to hit. Weapon focus is even a thing, and in this version, once one of those 3/4 BAB classes hit level 12, they get an additional increase in ability to hit.

I'm really interested in seeing how mid to late levels play out in this game with the whole "no iterative attacks" thing that's going on. Will the days of ending a boss fight in first round of combat end? I can only hope.

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Fred Strauss wrote:

I'm thinking of going with an 8 Con. Would never do that in PFS, but thinking the effect is not as bad in SFS.

Lashunta Pilot Mystic S10 D15 Cn8 I12 W16 Ch12. Healer. S5/HP9/R4 Specializing in Pilot and Diplomacy, so can work as Pilot or Captain in Ship Combat.

Any other thoughts of going with 8 Con?

Thanks!

I assume you are going with a Damaya Lashunta because of the -2 to con. And when you say Pilot, you mean Ace Pilot.

Your HP would be 6 from Mystic and 4 from Lashunta for a total of 10. Hit points are not modified by the Con Modifier, only the Stamina Points are.

The impact of a Con Modifier of -1 is 1 less stamina point and a worse fortitude save.

I would not do it but is is doable. Especially if you commit to putting an ability score upgrade at 5th level to Con.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Agent, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Gary Bush wrote:
Fred Strauss wrote:

I'm thinking of going with an 8 Con. Would never do that in PFS, but thinking the effect is not as bad in SFS.

Lashunta Pilot Mystic S10 D15 Cn8 I12 W16 Ch12. Healer. S5/HP9/R4 Specializing in Pilot and Diplomacy, so can work as Pilot or Captain in Ship Combat.

Any other thoughts of going with 8 Con?

Thanks!

I assume you are going with a Damaya Lashunta because of the -2 to con. And when you say Pilot, you mean Ace Pilot.

Your HP would be 6 from Mystic and 4 from Lashunta for a total of 10. Hit points are not modified by the Con Modifier, only the Stamina Points are.

The impact of a Con Modifier of -1 is 1 less stamina point and a worse fortitude save.

I would not do it but is is doable. Especially if you commit to putting an ability score upgrade at 5th level to Con.

I have a Damaya Lashunta Envoy with an 8 Con I played at GenCon. So far the closest I got to going down was when a runaway mine cart slammed into me knocking me back 10 feet into a wall and taking me from full to 1 HP. I quickly pulled out a Mark 1 Stickybomb Grenade while prone and threw it at the wheels causing it to derail and flip through the air straight at me. Fortunately, I made that Reflex save so it didn't do anymore damage to me, it just flipped over and landed on top of me, so that party got to hear my muffled voice saying, "It's all right. I'm okay."

We shall see how this experiment works out, though I am thinking of taking Toughness at 3rd level.

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