Hey 4 arms!


Rules Questions

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So with the new Star finder rules what are some of the advantages to having an extra set of limbs?


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From what little I've read so far, nothing. The second set of arms are described as used for mating, and use of them for other tasks is considered offensive. Sort of like unzipping your pants and using yer wiener to wield a rapier.

On the other hand, from a role-playing perspective, the idea of performing such an obscene act could yield some interesting interactions...

Dark Archive

That's only for the Shirren who have weak, hand-less "mating arms" on their stomach. Kasatha have 4 fully functional arms that can be used for silliness. My plan is a switch-hitter soldier with a heavy weapon on the right and reach weapon on the left. They won't get you extra attacks but there is a feat which requires 4+ arms. It allows you to go full auto with small arms which is normally reserved for heavy weapons.


spacetimc wrote:

From what little I've read so far, nothing. The second set of arms are described as used for mating, and use of them for other tasks is considered offensive. Sort of like unzipping your pants and using yer wiener to wield a rapier.

On the other hand, from a role-playing perspective, the idea of performing such an obscene act could yield some interesting interactions...

You're describing the Shirren. The Kasatha (and people with a pair of cyberarms) do not follow that at all. The benefit of four arms is basically more options. Stuff like being able to weird a rifle and a sword, while still keeping a hand free to throw grenades. Since shifting to a one-handed grip on a weapon is now a swift action, having one hand free to do stuff like drink serums is relevant. It also lets you throw the mythical quad deuces, so that's pretty good.


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Wikrin wrote:
You're describing the Shirren. The Kasatha (and people with a pair of cyberarms) do not follow that at all.

Wait, you're saying cyberarms aren't only for mating?


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thunderbeard wrote:
Wikrin wrote:
You're describing the Shirren. The Kasatha (and people with a pair of cyberarms) do not follow that at all.
Wait, you're saying cyberarms aren't only for mating?

Not unless you splurge on attachments,

...

I'll see myself out.


There's none...

Two-Weapon Fighting has been completely removed, as you can make 2 attacks as a full attack with either the same weapon or 2 different weapons. The Soldier and Salorian can make 3 attacks and the Operative can make 4 attacks with specific weapons, but it doesn't matter how many limbs you have...

Nowhere is there a feat that allows you to make an off-hand attack during a round, such as 2 attacks (1 primary, 1 off-hand) as a standard action and 3 attacks (2 primary, 1 off-hand) as a full attack, or in the case of kasathas, 4 attacks (1 primary, 3 off-hand) as a standard action and 5 attacks (2 primary, 3 off-hand) as a full attack.


Well their can't be none. people have already stated a few advantages such as having a hand free to hold a potion.


You don't get more attacks, but the ability to wield more weapons (and tools) can make you more versatile
Most notably, however, the Fusillade feat requires your character to have 4 or more arms


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Feel like their should of been some bonus to grapple checks in there


Renata Maclean wrote:

You don't get more attacks, but the ability to wield more weapons (and tools) can make you more versatile

Most notably, however, the Fusillade feat requires your character to have 4 or more arms

Yeah, for an Automatic attack, not 4 shots fired at a single target.


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When you make a disarm maneuver, if you're successful and you have a free hand, you can grab the weapon for free.

I know it's not much, but having 4 arms would make snatching weapons more viable.


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It's actually a pretty versatile ability. There's a number of fun things you can do with it. Velisruna already suggested having both reach weapon and a heavy weapon. If you're fighting melee opponents, you're a ranged attacker protected by a buffer of threatened squares, making it a pain for them to get to you without triggering an AoO. If you're fighting ranged attackers, you can get up close and force them to either waste actions escaping or trigger an AoO by attacking.

There's also a lot of interesting but situational new weapons that become more viable if you don't need to waste time switching them out. A flamethrowers is handy for crowds, but swapping it out once the melee folk get in takes a move and a swift, and that's with a feat investment (or you could drop the flamethrower, but should you?}. Got four arms? You can choose between your area attack or something precise for free, every time.

Play a technician. Use a taclash for trips and disarms, wield a doshko for sheer damage, and still have a hand free to catch disarmed weapons.

Finally, you always get to act in a surprise round, because four armed is forewarned.

I'll see myself out.


JiCi wrote:

There's none...

Two-Weapon Fighting has been completely removed, as you can make 2 attacks as a full attack with either the same weapon or 2 different weapons. The Soldier and Salorian can make 3 attacks and the Operative can make 4 attacks with specific weapons, but it doesn't matter how many limbs you have...

Nowhere is there a feat that allows you to make an off-hand attack during a round, such as 2 attacks (1 primary, 1 off-hand) as a standard action and 3 attacks (2 primary, 1 off-hand) as a full attack, or in the case of kasathas, 4 attacks (1 primary, 3 off-hand) as a standard action and 5 attacks (2 primary, 3 off-hand) as a full attack.

There is Multiweapon which is poorly worded.

If you make a full attack using 2 or more small arms or operative weapons of the same type you get =1 to the attacks which have a -4 penalty. Presumes you can make 4 attacks at -3 but does not state it grants you four attacks. Nor does the feat explain what happens if you have a longarm in two hands and two small arms in the others. Can you still make two attacks at -3 or does holding the longarm ready invalidate this.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Why would holding a long arm in your other hands invalidate multi-weapon fighting if you are not trying to attack with it? I have not seen anything that even implies that it would.


HammerJack wrote:
Why would holding a long arm in your other hands invalidate multi-weapon fighting if you are not trying to attack with it? I have not seen anything that even implies that it would.

The feat states you have to have all the same type of weapon ie two small arms or two operative. It also references the -4 penalty. It says two or more because their are four armed people. It can be read as 4 attacks but this contradicts class features such as the 11th level soldier that gets three attacks at -6. It could mean that the extra attacks come from somewhere else but why state -4.

If it is limited to two then yea I agree why should holding the longarm invalidate it but they suggest you have only small arms or only operative weapons and not even a mix of both. Poorly worded.


I have read over all of the material and I do not think it is poorly written at all.

From what I am reading on the Multi weapon feat it is talking about if you get additional attacks beyond two like the solider at 3 attacks with onslaught at level 3 or the bonuses to the operative at higher levels.

Multi-Weapon fighting (Combat)
You know how to fight with several lighter weapons at once and how to take advantage of your multiple attacks.
Benefit: When you make a full attack with two or more small arms or with two or more melee weapons (see page 184) reduce the penalty for making a full attack by 1.

Full attack says you get two attacks at -4.

No where does it says that you get more attacks because you have more arms. Heck, even getting a third or fourth cyber arm doesn't grant additional attacks and it says that on both the Kasatha and the Cybernetic arms equipment upgrade. "Does not grant additional attacks."

Guys any help here is appreciated. I ruled that there's only two attacks regardless of how many arms you have. From my standpoint this is not a house rule but RAW.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The feat says that you are making a full attack with small arms or operative melee weapons. It says nothing about only having those weapons.

Dark Archive

The listing for the Kasatha specifically says having more arms does not grant extra attacks, only that it allows you to have more weapons readied.


You can hold the longarm and fire both pistols with the full attack action as that race. Those arms are for holding those weapons. Also, you can shift weapon grip as a swift action and use the longarm the following turn without having to actually holster the pistols.


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Azaranex wrote:
You can hold the longarm and fire both pistols with the full attack action as that race. Those arms are for holding those weapons. Also, you can shift weapon grip as a swift action and use the longarm the following turn without having to actually holster the pistols.

Why would you need to shift weapon grip?


That's a good point. You can use the longarm the following turn without shifting weapon grip.


It's not nearly as advantageous as it was in Pathfinder, and I think that's the desired effect since they had to balance Kasatha against all the other races.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Maps Subscriber
Claxon wrote:
It's not nearly as advantageous as it was in Pathfinder, and I think that's the desired effect since they had to balance Kasatha against all the other races.

Didn't they do that by changing the +2 DEX to +2 STR and then giving a -2 INT??


Wikrin wrote:


You're describing the Shirren...

Yes, my mistake. Thanks for the gentle correction everyone!


I'm planning on playing a Kasatha Bombard Soldier at some point. 2 of his arms will be occupied with big guns, one will hold a 1-handed weapon to hit enemies who close in on him, and the last will be kept free to either lob grenades or chug potions.

Liberty's Edge

Collect twice as many free hugs. Duh. ;)


You don't have to drop your beer while fighting with two barstools.

Grand Lodge

You can make twice as many obscene gestures.

SM


evilnerf wrote:
The listing for the Kasatha specifically says having more arms does not grant extra attacks, only that it allows you to have more weapons readied.

The issue is that they didn't give them the ability to use all 4 arms for 4 attacks via a feat.


Renata Maclean wrote:

You don't get more attacks, but the ability to wield more weapons (and tools) can make you more versatile

Most notably, however, the Fusillade feat requires your character to have 4 or more arms

The saddest part about this is that you need a separate action to draw each weapon. Even with Quick Draw, you need four swift actions (more than an entire round) to draw all four weapons, making it impossible to use Fusillade until at least round 3, assuming you spent the first two rounds mostly drawing your guns.


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Noodlemancer wrote:
Renata Maclean wrote:

You don't get more attacks, but the ability to wield more weapons (and tools) can make you more versatile

Most notably, however, the Fusillade feat requires your character to have 4 or more arms
The saddest part about this is that you need a separate action to draw each weapon. Even with Quick Draw, you need four swift actions (more than an entire round) to draw all four weapons, making it impossible to use Fusillade until at least round 3, assuming you spent the first two rounds mostly drawing your guns.

I don't know about you, but in any situation it's not rude to do so that I expect to get shot at, I'm going to already have my weapons out.


Thom Colgan wrote:
Claxon wrote:
It's not nearly as advantageous as it was in Pathfinder, and I think that's the desired effect since they had to balance Kasatha against all the other races.
Didn't they do that by changing the +2 DEX to +2 STR and then giving a -2 INT??

Eh....you mean compared to Pathfinder?

I mean, maybe they changed the stats (d20pfsrd is down so I can't check). I'm not sure that was for balance purposes. It would make Kastha good at melee, and less good at ranged attacks. But it's really not a big deal honestly, with how they changed stat generation.

Starfinder is based around having 1 or 2 attacks a round only (unless you get special class abilities to increase that). Having more than 2 arms isn't meant to be a big advantage like it is in Pathfinder. It has usefulness, but just not like some people want it to (which is namely extra attacks).


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If they allowed Kasatha to make four attacks instead of the usual you might as well rename Starfinder Society to Kasathafinder Society.


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Suede wrote:
Noodlemancer wrote:
Renata Maclean wrote:

You don't get more attacks, but the ability to wield more weapons (and tools) can make you more versatile

Most notably, however, the Fusillade feat requires your character to have 4 or more arms
The saddest part about this is that you need a separate action to draw each weapon. Even with Quick Draw, you need four swift actions (more than an entire round) to draw all four weapons, making it impossible to use Fusillade until at least round 3, assuming you spent the first two rounds mostly drawing your guns.
I don't know about you, but in any situation it's not rude to do so that I expect to get shot at, I'm going to already have my weapons out.

I'm just generally sad about how useless Quick Draw seems in Starfinder.

Outside of the ugly edge case of spending two rounds to draw weapons for Fusillade, only about 2-3 classes are capable of making any use of it in principle, and even that is situational, for everyone else it offers absolutely no possible benefit in any imaginable situation as soon as they reach BAB +1 (which is, at most, level 2).
You can't even Quick Draw and Full Attack or Quick Draw and Trick Attack in the same round - both of those are simply illegal by the rules.
I'm honestly not sure what the designers have been thinking.


captain yesterday wrote:
If they allowed Kasatha to make four attacks instead of the usual you might as well rename Starfinder Society to Kasathafinder Society.

In Kasathafinder Society, Kasatha finds you.


Noodlemancer wrote:
The saddest part about this is that you need a separate action to draw each weapon. Even with Quick Draw, you need four swift actions (more than an entire round) to draw all four weapons, making it impossible to use Fusillade until at least round 3, assuming you spent the first two rounds mostly drawing your guns.

Worse is that even with Quick Draw you can't make a Full Attack with only one weapon since you cannot use a swift action in the same turn as a Full Action.

The exception being a Full Attack with quick draw and thrown weapons, which do work.


captain yesterday wrote:
If they allowed Kasatha to make four attacks instead of the usual you might as well rename Starfinder Society to Kasathafinder Society.

Not allowing them to do so is pretty dumb though...

Two-Weapon Fighting has been screwed over... and wielding 2 pistols for multiple shots is kinda of a no-brainer for fighting styles.

You cannot make 2 attacks with 2 different weapons as a standard action; you cannot make 3 attacks with 2 different weapons as a full action (2 primary, 1 off-hand);

As a kasatha, ou cannot make 4 attacks with 4 different weapons as a standard action; you cannot make 5 attacks with 4 different weapons as a full action (2 primary, 3 off-hand), penalties included;

Furthermore, with the new weapon system, it's gonna be harder to anyone to get powerful weapons unless they raid a weapon shop due to the high costs, let alone city regulations and level limits. If you're lucky to get a decent weapon, keep it like your life depends on it. Same goes for ammunition management.

Finally, getting -2, -4 or -6 on your attack rolls can be a problem in some cases, meaning in some encounters it's better to shoot once in order to hit than shoot 4 times and only one does hit.


If two-gun fighting is so superior, why don't any real-world professional combat organizations do it?

Now, two-pistol fighting is cinematic, and thus possibly genre-appropriate. You can still shoot two pistols with a full attack (1 shot each).

Quote:
Finally, getting -2, -4 or -6 on your attack rolls can be a problem in some cases, meaning in some encounters it's better to shoot once in order to hit than shoot 4 times and only one does hit.

That seems reasonably realistic to me, and also rewards good tactics. Why is that a problem?

edit: less rude


Noodlemancer wrote:
Suede wrote:
Noodlemancer wrote:
Renata Maclean wrote:

You don't get more attacks, but the ability to wield more weapons (and tools) can make you more versatile

Most notably, however, the Fusillade feat requires your character to have 4 or more arms
The saddest part about this is that you need a separate action to draw each weapon. Even with Quick Draw, you need four swift actions (more than an entire round) to draw all four weapons, making it impossible to use Fusillade until at least round 3, assuming you spent the first two rounds mostly drawing your guns.
I don't know about you, but in any situation it's not rude to do so that I expect to get shot at, I'm going to already have my weapons out.

I'm just generally sad about how useless Quick Draw seems in Starfinder.

Outside of the ugly edge case of spending two rounds to draw weapons for Fusillade, only about 2-3 classes are capable of making any use of it in principle, and even that is situational, for everyone else it offers absolutely no possible benefit in any imaginable situation as soon as they reach BAB +1 (which is, at most, level 2).
You can't even Quick Draw and Full Attack or Quick Draw and Trick Attack in the same round - both of those are simply illegal by the rules.
I'm honestly not sure what the designers have been thinking.

Not to mention how easy it is to duplicate or supersede Quick Draw in a lot of places. Ysoki get a free (and slightly gross) version of Quick Draw, and a Kalasha or someone with cyberarms (admittedly higher level items) might never need to draw something in combat.

Most of all, though, Called is a mere level 1 fusion that gives you the effect of Quick Draw and protects you from being disarmed. I expect to see a lot of Called and/or Glamered weapons.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Smite Makes Right wrote:
Collect twice as many free hugs. Duh. ;)

And now I have an image in my head off a Kasatha hippie.

*starts printing character sheets*

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Quickdraw storage limbs let you draw a weapon as part of an attack or full attack. You could move-draw, swift action draw, and standard attack to have 3 weapons drawn in one round. Draw a fourth as part of your full attack on your second turn.


whew wrote:
Quote:
Finally, getting -2, -4 or -6 on your attack rolls can be a problem in some cases, meaning in some encounters it's better to shoot once in order to hit than shoot 4 times and only one does hit.
That seems reasonably realistic to me, and also rewards good tactics. Why is that a problem?

The problem is that they didn't offer TWF or MWF stuff in fear of these being overpowered. The thing is, however, there are several factors that make TWF / MWF a very high-risk/decent reward situation. Ammunition management, numerous expensive weapons, harder to hit...

In Pathfinder, you... could stay alive with 4 masterwork short swords as a kasatha. Sure, it costs more to enhance them, but still, you had your standard weapons. In Starfinder, you're... going to require a loan to purchase 4 decent pistols, ammunition excluded.


It's almost like they didn't want extra attacks (to be easy to get) and become de rigueur or extra limbs to be particularly advantageous over normal armed races.


Professor Wonderment wrote:
A flamethrowers is handy for crowds, but swapping it out once the melee folk get in takes a move and a swift, and that's with a feat investment (or you could drop the flamethrower, but should you?}.

With more thought, I take this back. Simply making both weapons Called is a minor expenditure, so you *could* drop that flamethrower for free and simply call it back with a swift action.

Scarab Sages

Ya, this is my first 'Alien' Race build. I thought it'd be neat to make a soldier who uses 4 pistols. (or melee Weapons for when the fight comes to him)


Y'know what makes Fusillade even worse?

The four pistols need to be identical.

So it's not just drawing and using all the different pistols you normally keep for different damage types.

Heck, not even different grades of the same base weapon type. You trade in one of your level 1 laser pistols for the next grade up, Fusillade doesn't work anymore.


Claxon wrote:
It's almost like they didn't want extra attacks (to be easy to get) and become de rigueur or extra limbs to be particularly advantageous over normal armed races.

They removed the iterative attacks... but unlike the Star Wars d20 game, where you can make one attack per limb (4 for Grievous, for instance), they... didn't go that route... at all.


Exactly JiCi, that's the point. They don't want huge numbers of iterative attacks. They didn't like how it impacted Pathfinder, especially at higher levels. So they made the max you can get very limited, and made it harder to get more attacks.

The 4-arms racial bonus has a benefit, and it's in line with the benefits other races get. Letting you get a ton of extra attacks just for being a race not only drastically unbalances the race, but also breaks the whole point of limiting attacks per round.


Suede wrote:

Exactly JiCi, that's the point. They don't want huge numbers of iterative attacks. They didn't like how it impacted Pathfinder, especially at higher levels. So they made the max you can get very limited, and made it harder to get more attacks.

The 4-arms racial bonus has a benefit, and it's in line with the benefits other races get. Letting you get a ton of extra attacks just for being a race not only drastically unbalances the race, but also breaks the whole point of limiting attacks per round.

One of the issues with it though is that using those hands is impractical.

There's material for a combat style, and said combat style is not only not good, but actually BAD because it takes so long to draw all your weapons.

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