What happens if you fail a maneuver check?

[Ectar]

Maneuver (Helm Phase)
You move you starship up to its speed. You can also attempt a Piloting check (DC=15 + 2 x your starship's tier)to reduce you starship's distance between turns by 1 (to a minimum of 0).

Now, what happens if you fail this check? Do you just get to make your movement and turns as normal? If so, why would you ever NOT do this?

[Hiruma Kai]

Ectar wrote:

Maneuver (Helm Phase)

You move you starship up to its speed. You can also attempt a Piloting check (DC=15 + 2 x your starship's tier)to reduce you starship's distance between turns by 1 (to a minimum of 0).

Now, what happens if you fail this check? Do you just get to make your movement and turns as normal? If so, why would you ever NOT do this?

You would always try the roll (unless its impossible). It just means better pilots generally turn better.

Its like having a character with 40' movement instead of 30' movement. Its just that extra 10' of movement is not guaranteed and you roll to see if you have it every round.

[Ectar]

Alternatively it supposed to mean that you are able to move your speed. If you fail at the check, you're not allowed to turn at all.

If my original suggestion is the correct one, then there really is no reason to EVER use the fly action.

[Hiruma Kai]

Ectar wrote:

Alternatively it supposed to mean that you are able to move your speed. If you fail at the check, you're not allowed to turn at all.

If my original suggestion is the correct one, then there really is no reason to EVER use the fly action.

When you choose that action, you get all benefits. So the first benefit is you can move your ship up to its speed.

The second benefit is if you make a roll and succeed, then you gain the ability to make tighter turns. The second benefit is not you get to move at all. So if you fail the roll, the only thing you lose is the tighter turns.

For example, look at the rules for the operative's trick attack. Its broken into 3 seperate things.

1) You get to move.
2) You get to attack.
3) And then, if you succeed at a DC 20+CR roll, you also make them flat footed before the attack. If you fail the DC20+CR roll, you still get to move and still get to attack, even though its all one single Full Action.

If there is nothing listed as a failure effect, the only thing that happens when you fail the roll is you don't get the benefit that you would have gotten had you succeeded.

[Ectar]

You can move your ship up to its speed, I agree. It does not say that you can turn.

The fly action says "You can move your starship up to its speed and make any turns allowed by its maneuverability. This doesn't require a skill check"

Most of the stunts also specify if you can or cannot turn as a part of your movement. Flyby doesn't explicitly say (It says the ship moves normally), but the diagram clearly show it turning.

Considering the lack of similar wording in the Maneuver action, I'm fairly comfortable concluding that a failed piloting check on a maneuver action makes you unable to turn for that round.
And honestly, if this weren't the case why even HAVE the fly action if there was no penalty for failure?

[Ectar]

Any additional opinions forum members?

[usgrandprix]

I was wondering about this too:

1. What if you fail the Maneuver action pilot check?

2. If you make the check, for how long do you reduce you starship's distance between turns by 1?

3. Can you turn when you try the Maneuver action? The Fly action specifically says "and make any turns allowed by its maneuverability" but the Maneuver action does not.

To me the presence of the separate Fly and Maneuver actions suggests the latter has a risk or something different about it.

For now I'm house ruling:
-You can turn during the Maneuver action, even if you fail.
-The reduction in turn value lasts only that Helm phase.
-If you fail the Maneuver action Pilot check by 5 or more all attacks that turn get a -2 (because your pilot is dancing around too much).

My other thought is a failed (by 5 or more) Maneuver action Pilot check should increase the turn value by 1 that Helm phase.

I love these starship rules but this one needs tidied up to my mind.

[whew]

Ectar wrote:

And honestly, if this weren't the case why even HAVE the fly action if there was no penalty for failure?

If you don't need the tighter turning, then you save the time and effort to roll the dice. If the pilot has max ranks in piloting and the enemy needs less than natural 18 to hit, "evade" is also always better than "fly".