paizo.com Recent Posts in There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)paizo.com Recent Posts in There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)2017-08-15T16:27:58Z2017-08-15T16:27:58ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)SweetNicolehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#372017-09-08T14:02:55Z2017-09-08T14:02:55Z<p>(cross posting from another thread)
<br />
It seems like you could do:</p>
<p>Char level 1: Soldier/1
<br />
(dex for more resolve points, heavy armor prof, advanced melee prof, long arm prof, heavy armor prof, sniper weapon prof)
<br />
Sharpshooter for bonus vs covered enemies or blitz for bonus initiative, negate heavy armor move penalty
<br />
Feat: ??</p>
<p>Char level 2: Envoy/1
<br />
Get 'Em for improv talent</p>
<p>Char level 3: Envoy/2
<br />
Inspiring Boost
<br />
Feat: ?? (you could delay choosing this one until level 4 to pick up versatile weapon specialization since you don't gain weapon specialization until level 3 with a class)</p>
<p>Char level 4: Envoy/3</p>
<p>Char level 5: Envoy/4
<br />
+1 Str (heavy weapon), +Dex, +Dex, +Int, +Cha
<br />
Feat: Versatile Weapon Specialization (if not delayed level 3 feat)</p>
<p>From this point forward, build out as a normal Envoy, wearing heavy armor with specialization in heavy weapons, long arms or sniper if you so desire. Alternatively, take Envoy @ level 1, soldier level 2, but you're less combat effective for those first three scenarios since you have no long arm weapon prof.</p>(cross posting from another thread)
It seems like you could do:
Char level 1: Soldier/1
(dex for more resolve points, heavy armor prof, advanced melee prof, long arm prof, heavy armor prof, sniper weapon prof)
Sharpshooter for bonus vs covered enemies or blitz for bonus initiative, negate heavy armor move penalty
Feat: ??
Char level 2: Envoy/1
Get 'Em for improv talent
Char level 3: Envoy/2
Inspiring Boost
Feat: ?? (you could delay choosing this one until level 4 to pick up versatile...SweetNicole2017-09-08T14:02:55ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Porridgehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#362017-09-07T23:54:44Z2017-09-07T23:46:31Z<p>As a side note, let me just say that I think that of the many things Paizo has introduced to make Pathfinder more fun, the retraining options from Ultimate Campaign are one of the best. There are a lot of options/builds in Pathfinder that come together at level X, but are painful before then. And as both a player and a GM, I strongly dislike making people face the dilemma of "you can get a cool build that does X... but only if you suffer through X-1 levels of suckiness first". Retraining is the perfect panacea for that: you can actually have fun from levels 1 through 1-X, and then retrain at level X.</p>
<p>Anyway, I'm really glad that they recognized this, and that they introduced retraining options in the core rulebook of Starfinder. So here's a shout-out to whoever was responsible for getting retraining options into the Starfinder CRB: </p>
<p><b>Thanks!</b></p>As a side note, let me just say that I think that of the many things Paizo has introduced to make Pathfinder more fun, the retraining options from Ultimate Campaign are one of the best. There are a lot of options/builds in Pathfinder that come together at level X, but are painful before then. And as both a player and a GM, I strongly dislike making people face the dilemma of "you can get a cool build that does X... but only if you suffer through X-1 levels of suckiness first". Retraining is...Porridge2017-09-07T23:46:31ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Porridgehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#352017-09-08T00:05:25Z2017-09-07T23:27:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Renata Maclean wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Porridge wrote:</div><blockquote> Maybe dip to get those proficiencies early and then retrain when you have the feats available? </blockquote>Retraining isn't quite that easy. You need to use a Mnemonic Editor, which only retrains the last two levels you took. (You can also only use 4 in your lifetime, at exponentially increasing price each time) </blockquote><p>Yeah, you don't need a mnemonic editor to retrain. And the inclusion of mnemonic editors in the book doesn't mean that you •can• retrain. Whether you can retrain, to what extent you can retrain, and whether it costs anything to do so, is purely a GM decision:
<div class="messageboard-quotee">CRB, p227 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> REWORKING YOUR CHARACTER
</p>
A GM has the final decision on whether or not you may rework your character, changing decisions you previously made, and whether you are required to use a mnemonic editor to do so. A GM can decide that mnemonic editors are not available and cannot be crafted, created, or accessed through any means. A GM might also let a player to change a feat or class level if the player and GM agree it makes sense to do so, without resorting to such a device. The mnemonic editor provides an in-world explanation for mechanical changes made to a character. For example, it gives a character who started as an envoy but decided to study the ways of mysticism (and was seen casting spells) a plausible way to suddenly lose that spellcasting ability if the player decides that multicasting as an envoy/mystic isn't as fun as expected.</blockquote><p>EDIT: Shorter version: My comment was intended to be understood as having an implicit "Assuming your GM allows retraining..." in front of it. But since that was implicit, I can see why it wasn't clear!Renata Maclean wrote:Porridge wrote: Maybe dip to get those proficiencies early and then retrain when you have the feats available?
Retraining isn't quite that easy. You need to use a Mnemonic Editor, which only retrains the last two levels you took. (You can also only use 4 in your lifetime, at exponentially increasing price each time) Yeah, you don't need a mnemonic editor to retrain. And the inclusion of mnemonic editors in the book doesn't mean that you *can* retrain. Whether you can...Porridge2017-09-07T23:27:40ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Renata Macleanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#342017-09-07T22:11:08Z2017-09-07T22:11:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Porridge wrote:</div><blockquote> Maybe dip to get those proficiencies early and then retrain when you have the feats available? </blockquote><p>Retraining isn't quite that easy. You need to use a Mnemonic Editor, which only retrains the last two levels you took. (You can also only use 4 in your lifetime, at exponentially increasing price each time)Porridge wrote:Maybe dip to get those proficiencies early and then retrain when you have the feats available?
Retraining isn't quite that easy. You need to use a Mnemonic Editor, which only retrains the last two levels you took. (You can also only use 4 in your lifetime, at exponentially increasing price each time)Renata Maclean2017-09-07T22:11:08ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Porridgehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#332017-09-07T21:59:37Z2017-09-07T21:59:37Z<p>Maybe dip to get those proficiencies early and then retrain when you have the feats available?</p>Maybe dip to get those proficiencies early and then retrain when you have the feats available?Porridge2017-09-07T21:59:37ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Soluzarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#322017-09-07T21:55:05Z2017-09-07T21:55:05Z<p>This reminds me of a dilemma I'm having right now. I'm working on a Human Mystic with the Mindbreaker connection. I'm envisioning something like a psionic warrior who breaks his enemy's will with mental attacks and then wades in for the kill. </p>
<p>I have two alternatives:
<br />
-Pick up Heavy Armor Proficiency and Heavy Melee Weapons (whichever is the upgrade for Basic).
<br />
-Or dip Soldier.</p>This reminds me of a dilemma I'm having right now. I'm working on a Human Mystic with the Mindbreaker connection. I'm envisioning something like a psionic warrior who breaks his enemy's will with mental attacks and then wades in for the kill.
I have two alternatives:
-Pick up Heavy Armor Proficiency and Heavy Melee Weapons (whichever is the upgrade for Basic).
-Or dip Soldier.Soluzar2017-09-07T21:55:05ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Shaudiushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#312017-09-07T21:42:12Z2017-09-07T21:42:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MR. H wrote:</div><blockquote><p> You have that instead of getting the ability one level earlier to attack AND make a target flat footed or giving everyone a +2 to hit, or a myriad of utility skill boost abilities.</p>
<p>Even at low levels, you are delaying specialization until level 4 or 5 (since you need a feat for non main class weapons).</p>
<p>That's just envoys. Going 10ft faster pales in comparison to a solarian casting haste or creating wormholes a level earlier.</p>
<p>Technomancers are delaying undead creation, microbot swarm, conjure technology and a host of abilities one level later.</p>
<p>Mystics may not be able to save you for one whole level, create undead, dominate persons, and greater command.</p>
<p>Operators give up serious amounts of damage, extra attacks, true sight, and other abilities for a level.</p>
<p>Mechanics suffer a weaker drone and delay key upgrades for a whole level.</p>
<p>In general dipping will be bad for your character. You can make a functional character, but it is not optimal. </blockquote><p>Sure, I wasn't commenting on the fact that the dip(or even specifically blitz) is the right thing to do, I was merely commenting that calling them feats isn't accurate, the feature doesn't grant you feats(of which you could only take once) it grants you abilities that offer the same benefit as feats which may or not be relevant to your calculation to take the dip(or choose blitz when you decide to take the dip) or not.MR. H wrote:You have that instead of getting the ability one level earlier to attack AND make a target flat footed or giving everyone a +2 to hit, or a myriad of utility skill boost abilities.
Even at low levels, you are delaying specialization until level 4 or 5 (since you need a feat for non main class weapons).
That's just envoys. Going 10ft faster pales in comparison to a solarian casting haste or creating wormholes a level earlier.
Technomancers are delaying undead creation, microbot...Shaudius2017-09-07T21:42:12ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)nicholas storm (alias of Jon Otaguro 428)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#302017-09-07T20:07:38Z2017-09-07T20:07:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">pauljathome wrote:</div><blockquote><p> If my envoy goes soldier (and it very may well) she will absolutely NOT be a blitz soldier. </p>
<p>Envoys (especially combat focussed ones) have better things to do with their move action than actually move :-). I expect my envoy to move at most once in most combats, find themself some cover, and drop prone. Getting up when we've won or lost :-).</p>
<p>The init is nice but its only a feat. Instead, I really like going heavy armor and having (essentially) +1 to my AC be increasing the max Dex penalty. </blockquote><p>I agree. Bonus movement is great for melee characters and not so great for envoys. Sharpshooter is better for the reduced cover bonus for ranged characters who can better use movement for get em and attacking without moving.
<p>I was thinking that envoy isn't a bad class to do split level multiclassing instead of a dip - like if you went to level 20, soldier 11, envoy 9.</p>pauljathome wrote:If my envoy goes soldier (and it very may well) she will absolutely NOT be a blitz soldier.
Envoys (especially combat focussed ones) have better things to do with their move action than actually move :-). I expect my envoy to move at most once in most combats, find themself some cover, and drop prone. Getting up when we've won or lost :-).
The init is nice but its only a feat. Instead, I really like going heavy armor and having (essentially) +1 to my AC be increasing the...nicholas storm (alias of Jon Otaguro 428)2017-09-07T20:07:38ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)pauljathomehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#292017-09-07T19:57:09Z2017-09-07T19:57:09Z<p>If my envoy goes soldier (and it very may well) she will absolutely NOT be a blitz soldier. </p>
<p>Envoys (especially combat focussed ones) have better things to do with their move action than actually move :-). I expect my envoy to move at most once in most combats, find themself some cover, and drop prone. Getting up when we've won or lost :-).</p>
<p>The init is nice but its only a feat. Instead, I really like going heavy armor and having (essentially) +1 to my AC be increasing the max Dex penalty.</p>If my envoy goes soldier (and it very may well) she will absolutely NOT be a blitz soldier.
Envoys (especially combat focussed ones) have better things to do with their move action than actually move :-). I expect my envoy to move at most once in most combats, find themself some cover, and drop prone. Getting up when we've won or lost :-).
The init is nice but its only a feat. Instead, I really like going heavy armor and having (essentially) +1 to my AC be increasing the max Dex penalty.pauljathome2017-09-07T19:57:09ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)whewhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#282017-09-07T16:27:08Z2017-09-07T16:27:08Z<p>My envoy is going to use longarms and inspirational boost. So he doesn't need to win initiative or extra movement or heavy armor. Dipping would only make him weaker.</p>My envoy is going to use longarms and inspirational boost. So he doesn't need to win initiative or extra movement or heavy armor. Dipping would only make him weaker.whew2017-09-07T16:27:08ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)MR. H (alias of Marcus Robert Hosler)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#272017-09-08T04:35:11Z2017-09-07T13:58:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Shaudius wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">MR. H wrote:</div><blockquote><p> That is not even remotely true.</p>
<p>A lot of these 1-4 level builds gain some benefit, but the dip hurts pretty badly at 9+</p>
<p>Really good class features early > feats you could have grabbed anyways. </blockquote><p>Except for the fact that blitz soldier's abilities, that are distinct from the stuff all soldiers get, aren't feats and they stack with feats. So if you would have gotten improved init anyway now you've got improved init and another +4, if you would have gotten fleet anyway now you've got fleet and another 10 feet of movement.
</p>
</blockquote><p>You have that instead of getting the ability one level earlier to attack AND make a target flat footed or giving everyone a +2 to hit, or a myriad of utility skill boost abilities.
<p>Even at low levels, you are delaying specialization until level 4 or 5 (since you need a feat for non main class weapons).</p>
<p>That's just envoys. Going 10ft faster pales in comparison to a solarian casting haste or creating wormholes a level earlier.</p>
<p>Technomancers are delaying undead creation, microbot swarm, conjure technology and a host of abilities one level later.</p>
<p>Mystics may not be able to save you for one whole level, create undead, dominate persons, and greater command.</p>
<p>Operators give up serious amounts of damage, extra attacks, true sight, and other abilities for a level.</p>
<p>Mechanics suffer a weaker drone and delay key upgrades for a whole level.</p>
<p>In general dipping will be bad for your character. You can make a functional character, but it is not optimal.</p>Shaudius wrote:MR. H wrote:That is not even remotely true.
A lot of these 1-4 level builds gain some benefit, but the dip hurts pretty badly at 9+
Really good class features early > feats you could have grabbed anyways.
Except for the fact that blitz soldier's abilities, that are distinct from the stuff all soldiers get, aren't feats and they stack with feats. So if you would have gotten improved init anyway now you've got improved init and another +4, if you would have gotten fleet anyway...MR. H (alias of Marcus Robert Hosler)2017-09-07T13:58:06ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)captain yesterdayhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#262017-09-07T12:24:27Z2017-09-07T12:24:27Z<p>Not everything starts with blitz soldier.</p>Not everything starts with blitz soldier.captain yesterday2017-09-07T12:24:27ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Shaudiushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#252017-09-07T12:13:59Z2017-09-07T12:13:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">MR. H wrote:</div><blockquote><p> That is not even remotely true.</p>
<p>A lot of these 1-4 level builds gain some benefit, but the dip hurts pretty badly at 9+</p>
<p>Really good class features early > feats you could have grabbed anyways. </blockquote><p>Except for the fact that blitz soldier's abilities, that are distinct from the stuff all soldiers get, aren't feats and they stack with feats. So if you would have gotten improved init anyway now you've got improved init and another +4, if you would have gotten fleet anyway now you've got fleet and another 10 feet of movement.MR. H wrote:That is not even remotely true.
A lot of these 1-4 level builds gain some benefit, but the dip hurts pretty badly at 9+
Really good class features early > feats you could have grabbed anyways.
Except for the fact that blitz soldier's abilities, that are distinct from the stuff all soldiers get, aren't feats and they stack with feats. So if you would have gotten improved init anyway now you've got improved init and another +4, if you would have gotten fleet anyway now you've got...Shaudius2017-09-07T12:13:59ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)MR. H (alias of Marcus Robert Hosler)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#242017-09-07T12:05:18Z2017-09-07T12:05:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">simplygnome wrote:</div><blockquote> Most classes dont have much that will offset all of that in one level, even casters. </blockquote><p>That is not even remotely true.
<p>A lot of these 1-4 level builds gain some benefit, but the dip hurts pretty badly at 9+</p>
<p>Really good class features early > feats you could have grabbed anyways.</p>simplygnome wrote:Most classes dont have much that will offset all of that in one level, even casters.
That is not even remotely true. A lot of these 1-4 level builds gain some benefit, but the dip hurts pretty badly at 9+
Really good class features early > feats you could have grabbed anyways.MR. H (alias of Marcus Robert Hosler)2017-09-07T12:05:18ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#232017-09-07T03:09:03Z2017-09-07T03:09:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mahtobedis wrote:</div><blockquote> People are aware that classes only grant weapon specialization for the weapons that a given class gives you right? You would need to spend feats or dip three levels to make longarms better. </blockquote><p>No, just one Feat, Versatile Specialization.Mahtobedis wrote:People are aware that classes only grant weapon specialization for the weapons that a given class gives you right? You would need to spend feats or dip three levels to make longarms better.
No, just one Feat, Versatile Specialization.Zahir ibn Mahmoud ibn Jothan (RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16)2017-09-07T03:09:03ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)simplygnomehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#222017-09-07T03:02:21Z2017-09-07T03:02:21Z<p>Looking at the discussion from many of these similar threads, it seems they probably do.</p>
<p>I think the argument is that you get 6 feats (longarms, heavy weapons, advanced melee, heavy armor, grenades, and sniper weapons), arguably about three of which youd use on any given build, but still.</p>
<p>You get all 6, plus a neat initiative bonus and move speed bonus (bc blitz).</p>
<p>Even if later you spend A feat to get specialization, youre still coming out ahead.</p>
<p>Most classes dont have much that will offset all of that in one level, even casters.</p>
<p>Personally, I think they should have mimicked 5th ed in that multi classing only gives you X benefit for profs and skills, limiting the gain.</p>Looking at the discussion from many of these similar threads, it seems they probably do.
I think the argument is that you get 6 feats (longarms, heavy weapons, advanced melee, heavy armor, grenades, and sniper weapons), arguably about three of which youd use on any given build, but still.
You get all 6, plus a neat initiative bonus and move speed bonus (bc blitz).
Even if later you spend A feat to get specialization, youre still coming out ahead.
Most classes dont have much that will...simplygnome2017-09-07T03:02:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Mahtobedishttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#212017-09-07T18:23:05Z2017-09-07T02:36:13Z<p>People are aware that classes only grant weapon specialization for the weapons that a given class gives you right? You would need to spend feats or dip three levels to make longarms better.</p>People are aware that classes only grant weapon specialization for the weapons that a given class gives you right? You would need to spend feats or dip three levels to make longarms better.Mahtobedis2017-09-07T02:36:13ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)The_Defianthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#202017-10-05T13:37:56Z2017-09-06T18:44:21Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tervola wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">gustavo iglesias wrote:</div><blockquote> Dipping into soldier is going to be great for everyone who is not a caster. </blockquote><p>I am working on an Android Soldier/Technomage that would beg to differ.
<p>With a decent Int and high Dex, one level of soldier for the Guard style for the heavy armor seems worth it. Seriously looking to burning a feat for power armor.</p>
<p>Irradiate, Explosive Blast or Corrosive Haze through my Sniper rifle with Spellshot is nice.</p>
<p>At 11th level Seeking Shot with a IMDS missile launcher with a tactical missle.</p>
<p>At 14th level Rain of Fire with X-gen gun, elite or Reaction cannon, advanced is looking really good. I might have to use the NIL grenade launcher, squad with some sweet grenades for that special occasion.</p>
<p>Depending on how the general vs specific rules work, if you can use Unwieldy weapons with Rain of Fire it gets nuts. But that is just me wanting to do this with Plasma cannon, yellow star. </p>
<p>"You can’t use an unwieldy weapon as part of a full attack (or any other action in which you could make multiple attacks), you can’t attack with it more than once per round," vs "to shoot a ranged weapon at multiple targets within range; the maximum number of targets is equal to half your technomancer level or the number of shots in your weapon,whichever is lower." </blockquote><p>So.. you've basically managed to make a tactical sorcerist from strait jacket. I salute you sir, that is pretty f•+$ing metal.
<p>(for those who don't know that anime... <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysQ1yncIX-I" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">This</a>. )</p>Tervola wrote:gustavo iglesias wrote: Dipping into soldier is going to be great for everyone who is not a caster.
I am working on an Android Soldier/Technomage that would beg to differ. With a decent Int and high Dex, one level of soldier for the Guard style for the heavy armor seems worth it. Seriously looking to burning a feat for power armor.
Irradiate, Explosive Blast or Corrosive Haze through my Sniper rifle with Spellshot is nice.
At 11th level Seeking Shot with a IMDS missile...The_Defiant2017-09-06T18:44:21ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)S. J. Digriz (alias of moon glum, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#192017-09-06T15:39:38Z2017-09-06T13:51:19Z<p>Blitz is the only fighting style whose 1st level ability is equal to 2 feats: fleet and improved initiative. In fact, its a little better because its bonus to initiative stacks with improved initiative and any intuition bonus, like rogue's edge, and its bonus to speed is not reduced by encumbrance like the bonus from fleet is. </p>
<p>Blitz soldier is a ripe, glowing red cherry.</p>Blitz is the only fighting style whose 1st level ability is equal to 2 feats: fleet and improved initiative. In fact, its a little better because its bonus to initiative stacks with improved initiative and any intuition bonus, like rogue's edge, and its bonus to speed is not reduced by encumbrance like the bonus from fleet is.
Blitz soldier is a ripe, glowing red cherry.S. J. Digriz (alias of moon glum, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8)2017-09-06T13:51:19ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)LittleMissNagahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#182017-09-07T19:51:38Z2017-09-06T09:28:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ludovicus wrote:</div><blockquote>Though Charisma is their key ability, envoys only really care about it for resolve points. They don't really need it for skill checks, since they can use Expertise, and they don't really need it for their special abilities, of which Charisma only effects two, and neither in a way that really matters to the effectiveness of the class.</blockquote><p>In theory, I see your point.
<p>In practice I see our group's 18 Cha envoy utterly dominate the social game, in part because she's got that extra +1 to +3 compared to what she'd have as a blitz ignoring Cha. It helps her make those checks that much more consistently.</p>
<p>Sure she's putting out less damage than yours would, but ours has repeatedly swung whole narratives in our favour. In the long run, I'd say that's more useful than "Oh look, isn't she so very optimized for killing things?"</p>Ludovicus wrote:Though Charisma is their key ability, envoys only really care about it for resolve points. They don't really need it for skill checks, since they can use Expertise, and they don't really need it for their special abilities, of which Charisma only effects two, and neither in a way that really matters to the effectiveness of the class.
In theory, I see your point. In practice I see our group's 18 Cha envoy utterly dominate the social game, in part because she's got that extra...LittleMissNaga2017-09-06T09:28:52ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)River of Stickshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#172017-09-05T23:54:04Z2017-09-05T23:54:04Z<p>Really, Blitz should be changed to a +1/5 or +1/4 level boost to initiative. IMO.</p>Really, Blitz should be changed to a +1/5 or +1/4 level boost to initiative. IMO.River of Sticks2017-09-05T23:54:04ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)The Morphlinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#162017-09-05T17:05:06Z2017-09-05T17:05:06Z<p>Yeah, no dice on using an unwieldy weapon with Rain of Fire.</p>Yeah, no dice on using an unwieldy weapon with Rain of Fire.The Morphling2017-09-05T17:05:06ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)whewhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#152017-09-05T13:36:54Z2017-09-05T13:12:37Z<p>It would be a specific rule that overrides the general rule if it specifically mentioned working with unwieldy weapons.</p>It would be a specific rule that overrides the general rule if it specifically mentioned working with unwieldy weapons.whew2017-09-05T13:12:37ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)Tervolahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#142017-09-05T05:59:26Z2017-09-05T05:59:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">gustavo iglesias wrote:</div><blockquote> Dipping into soldier is going to be great for everyone who is not a caster. </blockquote><p>I am working on an Android Soldier/Technomage that would beg to differ.
<p>With a decent Int and high Dex, one level of soldier for the Guard style for the heavy armor seems worth it. Seriously looking to burning a feat for power armor.</p>
<p>Irradiate, Explosive Blast or Corrosive Haze through my Sniper rifle with Spellshot is nice.</p>
<p>At 11th level Seeking Shot with a IMDS missile launcher with a tactical missle.</p>
<p>At 14th level Rain of Fire with X-gen gun, elite or Reaction cannon, advanced is looking really good. I might have to use the NIL grenade launcher, squad with some sweet grenades for that special occasion.</p>
<p>Depending on how the general vs specific rules work, if you can use Unwieldy weapons with Rain of Fire it gets nuts. But that is just me wanting to do this with Plasma cannon, yellow star. </p>
<p>"You can’t use an unwieldy weapon as part of a full attack (or any other action in which you could make multiple attacks), you can’t attack with it more than once per round," vs "to shoot a ranged weapon at multiple targets within range; the maximum number of targets is equal to half your technomancer level or the number of shots in your weapon,whichever is lower."</p>gustavo iglesias wrote:Dipping into soldier is going to be great for everyone who is not a caster.
I am working on an Android Soldier/Technomage that would beg to differ. With a decent Int and high Dex, one level of soldier for the Guard style for the heavy armor seems worth it. Seriously looking to burning a feat for power armor.
Irradiate, Explosive Blast or Corrosive Haze through my Sniper rifle with Spellshot is nice.
At 11th level Seeking Shot with a IMDS missile launcher with a...Tervola2017-09-05T05:59:26ZRe: Forums: Advice: There is no good mechanical reason for an envoy not to have a level in soldier (blitz)pauljathomehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2uiso?There-is-no-good-mechanical-reason-for-an#132017-08-31T01:00:28Z2017-08-31T01:00:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Porridge wrote:</div><blockquote><p> , it is (IMHO) only really an <i>amazing</i> dip for the Envoy.
</p>
</blockquote><p>Its pretty darn good for a Mystic too. If you're using buffing/healing type spells then you pretty much can start a Mystic with 12 Wisdom (the stat boost at L5 and a stat boosting item at L8 or so means that you get the sweet bonus spell a level) leaving enough points to make a quite decent combat person (not excellent, but a LOT better than a straight Mystic would be).Porridge wrote:, it is (IMHO) only really an amazing dip for the Envoy.
Its pretty darn good for a Mystic too. If you're using buffing/healing type spells then you pretty much can start a Mystic with 12 Wisdom (the stat boost at L5 and a stat boosting item at L8 or so means that you get the sweet bonus spell a level) leaving enough points to make a quite decent combat person (not excellent, but a LOT better than a straight Mystic would be).pauljathome2017-08-31T01:00:28Z