Ice storm and LOS


Rules Questions

The Exchange

Does the spell ice storm break line of sight?

"Great magical hailstones pound down upon casting this spell, dealing 3d6 points of bludgeoning damage and 2d6 points of cold damage to every creature in the area. This damage only occurs once, when the spell is cast. For the remaining duration of the spell, heavy snow and sleet rains down in the area. Creatures inside this area take a -4 penalty on Perception skill checks and the entire area is treated as difficult terrain. At the end of the duration, the snow and hail disappear, leaving no after-effects (other than the damage dealt)."

I was reading at the weather effects:

Heavy Snow: Heavy snow has the same effects as normal snowfall but also restricts visibility as fog does (see Fog). A day of heavy snow leaves 1d4 feet of snow on the ground, and it costs 4 squares of movement to enter a square covered with heavy snow. Heavy snow accompanied by strong or severe winds might result in snowdrifts 1d4 × 5 feet deep, especially in and around objects big enough to deflect the wind—a cabin or a large tent, for instance. There is a 10% chance that a heavy snowfall is accompanied by lightning (see Thunderstorm). Snow has the same effect on flames as moderate wind.

So I ruled that it did...


it only does what it mechanically says it does which is a -4 perception from the snow and difficult terrain, the fact they included the -4 perception and didn't say go "this works as snowfall" means that is the only penalty. so that was a pure house rule on your part.

its far closer to normal snow than heavy snow, almost identical in fact so I'm not sure why u went to heavy snow if u went to the weather section and read the weather effects. seems like too much

Rain: Rain reduces visibility ranges by half, resulting in a –4 penalty on Perception checks. It has the same effect on flames, ranged weapon attacks, and Perception checks as severe wind.

Snow: Falling snow has the same effects on visibility, ranged weapon attacks, and skill checks as rain, and it costs 2 squares of movement to enter a snow-covered square. A day of snowfall leaves 1d6 inches of snow on the ground


If you take the part of "difficult terrain" as a label for "Difficult Terrain", it follows that you must also take the label of "heavy snow" as for "Heavy Snow".

See 'Fog'.


Numarak wrote:

If you take the part of "difficult terrain" as a label for "Difficult Terrain", it follows that you must also take the label of "heavy snow" as for "Heavy Snow".

See 'Fog'.

The spell does not treat as concealment because the spell specifies -4 perception penalty, not concealment.

The spell does count as difficult terrain because the spell explicitly states it counts as difficult terrain.


The spell produces Heavy Snow because the spell explicitly states it produces heavy snow. And also produces Sleet.

That snow and sleet is removed after the duration of the spell, that is also explicit.

We can debate RAI, but we can not debate that calls out for heavy snow the same as calls for the rest of things you say it calls.

It is your decision, and not RAW, not to include the heavy snow as heavy snow.

You could be right? Yes. That makes OP decision wrong? I do not think so.


Numarak wrote:

The spell produces Heavy Snow because the spell explicitly states it produces heavy snow. And also produces Sleet.

That snow and sleet is removed after the duration of the spell, that is also explicit.

We can debate RAI, but we can not debate that calls out for heavy snow the same as calls for the rest of things you say it calls.

It is your decision, and not RAW, not to include the heavy snow as heavy snow.

You could be right? Yes. That makes OP decision wrong? I do not think so.

The spell goes on to describe a specific set of penalties imposed by the sleet and snow.

The specific penalties are a modifier to perception checks and difficult terrain.


I would hazard a guess that the writer who converted this spell from 3.5 didn't communicate at all with the writer who finalized the rules for weather and other environmental effects.


Reading further, the -4 Perception matches the entry for sleet but not snow. However, the spell is also missing the expected effects of sleet on flames and ranged weapon attacks.

I'm inclined to believe the writers intended it to only have the specific effects listed in the spell description, confusing use of "heavy snow" and "sleet" aside. While it leaves ice storm as a kinda crummy spell, the flipside (adding sleet effects, or even both sleet and heavy snow effects) make it a good to great spell, and we can't have that. ; )


I don't know about crummy.

A rimed Ice Storm is certainly going to destroy mobility on a potentially large number of opponents while still dealing decent damage.


True, with Rime it becomes pretty good--lower than average damage for a fifth level spell, but entangled and no saving throw for either effect. But that's a feat I probably wouldn't take unless I was somewhat specialized in ice magic.

...I should shell out for a rime rod for my druid.

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