What would happen if a modern day earth nation is thrown on Golarion?


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Liberty's Edge

Hi Guys. I wonder what would happen if a modern days earth nation from night to day appears in the Azlanti Ocean or somewhere else off-coast in Golarion; so the nation, for example Italy, disappear from Earth, a portion of Azlanti Ocean disappear from Golarion. A portion of Azlanti Ocean appears on Earth. Italy appears in Golarion.
Ovviously I've already considered (for the sake of clearness we can use Italy, because it's a Medium Size country well know all over the -our- world) evident short-terms consequences such as drammatic shortages of energy in months (Italy produces only 10% of oil, gas and carbon demand and electricity production relies for more than 50% on fossil fuels and import of nuclear-generated France's energy and Italy stores supplies just for half an year) and of food (Italy depends for 50% on import, but it also exports); and things such as instantly disappearing of foreigners internet servers and GPS and financial assets abroad, but also disappearance of global trade (no more new IPhones or BMW; and none to sell fine artisanals products), UE and BCE and foreigners owners of assets located in Italy. Ovviously first times would be hard times.
But, than, after the first Troubles, what happens?
First of all magic starts working in our transplanted nation? Is it weaker than in other parts of Golarion? Or it is a Dead Zone, such as Alkenstar?
How the first contacts are?
In Long Terms, Italy losts it's industrial capacity and becomes a (even if technologically acknowledged) non-industrialized country? Or it remains so? It is able to hide tech secrets to Avistani? It isolated it's self or started trade(as ex cheap steel, bicycles or chemicals for food and magic items)? Or Avistsni learn many things but Tech remains marginal due to magic existence and non-industrial hight costs production? Or the Intere Golarion starts industrialization? (Maybe thanks to Druma capitals)
Italy resists as a State? It founds colonies, maybe in Arcadia, or in Valiria or in Garundi coast?
What kinda relashionships with Aviatani nations? Who's allies with? (Andoran , due to ideological similarities?) It starts pacific cooperation with other nations or there is war?
What kind of shock for people of the nation transplanted? (Psycho and Cultural)
Christian God, Jesus, Virgin Mary and most other venerated figures or gods(Jehova, Allah, Padre Pio) starts manifesting on the Astral Planed, are created as gods by the god's council and started to give clerical powers to some of there's followers?
Some Italian became a sorcerer or they must study wizardry?
And what happen in Earth with the piece of Azlanti ocean?
(If you are more comfortable you can make this discussion with England or other countries, but will be usefull not to have to many scenarios to esaminate)


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Off the top of my head:

Immediately, a bunch of diplomatic mission from nicer nations and spies/minor assaults from nastier ones, probing the strength of this new place. Both sides are surprised at the strengths of the other (magic being unknown to the Italians, modern military abilities unknown to Golarion). Italy might lose some outlying territory, but should be mostly OK.
Both sides conserve their forces while more information is gathered. Without satellite coverage and signal intelligence, Italy is going to have get used to getting information the old fashioned way, which may take them some time to get used to.

Once the enemies know the Italians reliance on oil and inability to stop things like Invisibility and Teleport and etherealness, Italy could easily lose its leaders and major military posts in a series of hidden assaults they would be powerless to defend against. If they can avoid this, Italy stands a chance.

I don't know if Italy has any off shore oil technology, but if they could find a field and manufacture and put a rig, that should help their oil needs. It would take a while to get this done, but if they can't they are pretty screwed unless they can send out technicians to other lands and convince them to allow the Italians to drill for oil. In any case, this would take a long time and Italy's oil reserves would be pretty much gone by the time this came online.

If they can get an invitation to Numeria they can add get a lot further in recovering, fixing up and recreating the tech there. while cagey, the Numerians might soon realize that the Italians could be of immense benefit in learning how to control their relics, and enter a partnership of sorts. Blackmoor mk.3 might be in the making.

If Italians are suddenly capable of using magic they should be able to in a few years get industrialized mages working with Fabricate and Creation spells to replenish lost tech abilities, and hopefully create magical engines for their biggest machines. It would take a few years and probably require making deals with external mages to teach them, but once done a proper school of magic could be started to train as many as possible.

If the RCC suddenly gets gods and powers it would immediately cause a crisis of faith for everyone to suddenly get access to the god they've had to take on trust for all this time. A ton of arguing and testing and doubt would follow but once they get over the shock they should be fine. A unified and organized church like that could prove very beneficial, especially if rank translates to class levels. The RCC would likely start influencing Italian politics and daily life in a hitherto unprecedented way, possibly even slowly turning Italy into a theocracy. The feeling of being outsiders, the distrust of foreign gods and the structure and tradition of the church will be an immense comfort to people and if you have actual divine guidance you tend to accept it. A pantheon of presumably friendly gods is going to be far more attractive to the average Italian than alien ones.
Hopefully they would take over the role of a public health service once supplies and power become scarce.

Dark Archive

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My first question is, is this Italy from a version of our Earth where Paizo and Pathfinder don't exist, or is it the actual Italy from our actual world?

Because Italy has nerds and certainly some of them are familiar with/play Pathfinder.

The existence of ANY individuals within the transplanted nation who have knowledge of the setting, especially knowledge that would be hidden or uncommon to normal citizens of Golarian, would VASTLY change the dynamic, ESPECIALLY once they demonstrated that their knowledge was real and functional.

Also, regardless of whether the Judeo-Christian God and all attendant divine beings suddenly manifested in the Astral, Pathfinder allows (even if PFS doesn't) for Divine casters to worship/revere a creed/ideal/moral system instead of a discrete god, and still receive spells and divine powers. So, as long as the priests had REAL faith, and as long as they hold to their ideals, they SHOULD be able to pull at least first level spell casting as a cleric. Those with greater faith and devotion probably starting at a higher level.

What would be especially disruptive would be that, more than likely, under such a system many low ranking priests would exhibit strong magic, while many Archbishops and Cardinals who are essentially career politicians, would have none, having little to no ACTUAL faith, just a veneer and habit smeared over political aspirations.

Dark Archive

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Leaders of every nation and organization on Golarian poop themselves as copies of The Inner Sea World Guide slowly trickle out of Italy.


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Italy shouldn't have too big a problem re-industrializing, provided that they can come to some kind of trade deal. Either they can build a lightning farm and hire a few druids for electricity, or they can trade with an Avistani nation for oil (if it exists on Golarion) or coal. They can quickly build (or retrofit existing) refining facilities to produce petrol etc. from any kind of hydrocarbon fuel.

A church suddenly realising (after 2000 years) that they were right all along (sort of)? There'd be a holy war by Christmas. The Italians would have a significant advantage over conventional troops (I'd like to see how well a lore warden fares up against a modern air force...) but would probably be totally unprepared for magic assaults or magic infiltration - dominate (or even just charm) person is a hell of a spell against someone with no knowledge of magic.

On Earth, we're suddenly going to have a lot fewer (or more) fish in the Mediterranean, because the Arcadian ocean (being an ocean) is going to have a different salinity to the Med (a reasonably well enclosed sea). In addition, a large portion of the Alps now suddenly stops at the edge of the sea. Huge avalanches would fall into the Med, both cooling it down and raising it. The south of France and lowlying areas of Croatia, Greece and North Africa will probably face severe floods. On the other hand, the view from the ski lodge would be amazing.

Liberty's Edge

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Yes, Italy as offshore industrial capability, thanks to the mixed privat-public companies Enel and ENI. But I think the will probably try to raise the renewable energy sources. More than 20% electricity comes from Hydro. About this I think that even some southern parts of Switzerland are pocket in the teleported territories (otherway the watermass of big border
lakes, such as Como Lake and Maggiore Lake will flood in the see and many rivers would dry, causing hydrologic disasters, avoiding this, we include even the border lakes and the border mountains were major rivers borns).
We consider real world Italy (life goes good for nerds), yes, this way It. Gov. A big advantage. But even for the coragious individual nerds that ship to avistan soon, taking advantage to the Known secret. Ovviously many things will progressively shire from the Manual facts, due to the fact that they descrive events till 4717 and Italian appearance will modify the course of history.

You think they could be able to do reverse engineering on Numerian tech? Yes, in this case Blackmoore is on the way. What kind of info It. should share with the Numerians?
In case they will become very strong to.

Kinda possible alliance with Andoran and Druma?
Do you think there will be plenty of refugees coming in Italy from Cheliax for ex?
(Maybe in order of 25.000 person per year. This may cause strong resistance for some right anti-immigrants parties such as Lega Nord).

You think that even minoritaria religions as enoght power to manifest?

I wonder even what will happen in earth?
What kinda reaction? Pocket of Ocean will bring with himself even kraken, low Azlanti, Azlant underwater ruins and some cliff and island. In that pocket of Ocean magic still works?
How this event can transform earth society, culture and economy?

Liberty's Edge

Shire= shif


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If they get the God of the Old Testament, things might not be so easy.


Op did state with Jesus and Mary and the Saints, so probably not OT YHWH. They get the nicer one you can always be forgiven by saying 'sorry'.
And, I just noticed the OP got most other big gods there as well. Apparently the Abrahamic god is several dudes of the same name. That would lead, as already noted, to some pretty nasty internal strife in the short term. The RCC would come out on top, being biggest and having the largest following, but it would not be pretty.

As for faithless clergy, I assume a lot of them would suddenly be very faithful when there is actual living proof of a god. And is faith a meaningful term when you have proof? Isn't loyalty and devotion a better determiner for piety in a setting like Golarion? I'm pretty a number of these faithless clerics would be pretty loyal whatever their personal feelings on the morality and structure of the Church.

As for Italy reverse engineering space tech, I think they would do a much better job than the people in Numeria so far. Proper theory of computing and familiarity with computers, computer science, architecture and programming will make things a lot easier. I doubt we'd get Blackmoor overnight, but I could see things being well on their way in a couple of decades, depending on what sort of relics they get to play with. Assuming they have the time and opportunity to do so, obviously.


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Things to bear in mind.

Absalom is DWARFED by Rome, italy's total population is worth at least 6 and possibly as many as 10 of the most populous nations in golarion.

Their active military is the size of the entire population of the largest city in Golarian.

Their military tech engages at ranges not even magic from a 20th level caster can touch. An M16's maximum effective range is about 400 yards further than a 20th level caster using a long ranged spell.

Given the effect of RPG's on stone walls, assuming they don't have lessor effect upon moving to golarion their military is liable to have a number of man portable weapons that can punch through walls of force.

Their leadership doesn't have the absolute power of a monarch, so the effects of domination and charms are likely to be mitigated somewhat by the checks and balances of their governmental system.

Espionage might help a golarion nation but the biggest issue is the difference in industrialization, and the sheer number of steps between alkenstar tech and modern earth tech that have reached a point where they're just assumed to be understood by any high school/college student much less actual scientists. Numeria may have similar tech but its more worshipped than understood.


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Uh, I was totally ninja'd. ;) It took a while to look up stats.

There would be that matter of population. I'm not sure what the population of Golarion is but I would be willing to bet that it is far less than Italy's. As a post industrial Nation Italy's population density is very high compared to the agrarian nations of Golarion. That, is what I see as the biggest impact.

Rome alone has almost 10 times the population of Absolom. Magnimar has a population less than 1% of Rome's. Magnimar with a population of 16,000 would barely be considered a town in our world.

Liberty's Edge

Yes, that's true. I think Cheliax and Taldor can't have more than 10 milllions inhabitants each. And a fist of man with some tanks and machine gun can probably defeat a large army or even slay a dragon with antiaircraft. But ovviously magic (till RCC priests develops their abilities) is still an incredible advantage: three wizards of 12 lev can easily defeat that fist of men, casting Superior Invisibility, Ipnotizing the man with the machine gun to shoot his comrades, making a fireball enter in the tank turret, making another one entering in a dimensional portal 300 ft above the ground and so one; in ten seconds the militaries are defeated. Than we must consider that Italy is not so militaristic and it lacks of political view and strategy (in both the WW they changed side).
Ovviously in a large scale conflict magic would be less useful due to the low number of medium-height level of casters in Golarion (maybe Geb, Nex or irrisien's witch can be an exception).
I must even note that in Italy there are a lot of USA and NATO bases, with many thousands of man or US army, aircraft and (in Ghedi and Aviano base) even more or less 60 American nukes. What will happen to all this NATO and US forces? I think they will probably be integrated in Italian army

I see much interest in the religious topic. True what you said about Giudaic God. I shall remember that in Italy is present even a minorance of hundred thousand of Induist and Buddhist faith (buddist monks are priests, monks or somelse?)
Probably some cristian priest will acquire cleric lev., some other not, maybe even some nuns, monks and even some rare non clerical very religious man (such as some Opus Dei member) will aquire cleric levels.

To limit uncontrollably flight of tech knowledge and espionage gov should limit trade and general avistani immigrations in places such as Elba Island in the west coast and Venice in the east one. (Surely less impressive than Milan skyscrapers, being impressive"just" for electricity and motorized boats)

(I must note than -depending on the year period- hundered of thousand or even more than a million tourists will be trapped in Italy without there means of sustaining)

Italian Central Bank has in his caveau in Rome 1.1000 tons of gold 99.9‰ bars. More or less 130 million (130.000.000!!!) gold 750‰ coins, so Gov can buy easily anything in Golarion, including buildings, shipping or drilling (oli) rights, wizard's consulence, mercenaries or adventurers hiring.
But Italy has a dramatic lack of mineral resources (10% his needs of fossil fuels; just one (close) mine of uranium in the Alps, closed phosphate and sulfur mines in Sicily, no metal mines (great great quantities of iron in Elba Island, but the mines closed a 50 years ago due to Chinese concorrence and need time to be revitalized; just little quantities of salt and silver produced, no alum not lithium, etc...

Dark Archive

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Another Question: Vatican City is technically it's own independent country, with the Pope as head of state.

Does Vatican City come to Golarian with Italy?

If NO: Then Italy has a giant hole in Rome that either leads down to bed rock, or is filled with sea water.
Meanwhile, the Vatican is a very surprised and precarious Island.

If YES: Then assuming even 1 in 10,000 of the holy relics in the Vatican Vaults possesses true power in Golarian, the once they realize this they will become a super power. Indeed, several items will likely be artifact grade. Lance of Longinus for example. Probably at least of few of the literal ton of wood scraps purported to be fragments of the true cross. Other things.


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Yes but a 12th level wizards fireball has about a 300 yard range, and the cannon on a modern tank shoots with >90% accuracy at 10 times that range.

And italy isn't militaristic by modern standards, as i said before though, their army is literally the size of every living creature in the largest metropolis on golarion, armed with modern weaponry that engages at ranges 10-20 times further than the farthest range a max level wizard can throw a spell, and sensors guiding them that can functionally mimic blindsight/tremorsense.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Disease is being under-estimated here, especially given the Italian government would have the capability to weaponize it. That being said, YWH would have to ramp up his clergy and fast, or the entire country will become shadows/shades within a month. All of this assumes even greater forces wouldn't intervene, such as the Elder. But given the literacy rate of modern man, and how much we know about stuff like the Outer God's and Pathfinder as a whole, I'd give the Italians a 50-50 chance of accidentally cursing their entire country with demons/quiport/elder ones/shadows or becoming a hub of knowledge every other country will drool to trade with.

Probably more likely the gods will cloister the entire island for a few decades allowing only envoy contact. Especially due to disease.. Wobderbhow the osiriani pantheon just would be affected...


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Ryan Freire wrote:

Things to bear in mind.

Their military tech engages at ranges not even magic from a 20th level caster can touch. An M16's maximum effective range is about 400 yards further than a 20th level caster using a long ranged spell.

No, no it wouldn't. All ranged weapons always get their range rescaled in PF. You would most likey see them as 120ft. ranged weapons, similar to the ranges you will see if you check out the technology guide or something similar that has automatic weapons.

Liberty's Edge

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Ti was: both very interesting options!
But I say Vatican Goes with Italy and, for that pourpuse, even the little S.Marino Republic.
Ya, Vatican goes very power

Liberty's Edge

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Kitzune: you say Golarion diseases in Italy?
Such as Lycantropia?

Liberty's Edge

Yes, as you said, Freire, there is no comparison, a Golarion army would be slashed even before start fighting (as in last Samurai, but much much worse) but magic makes possible for spellcasters and spellcaster's little groups of allies to came closer in a "stealth mode", etehereal or invisible and that to hit vulnerable and important targets.

But we have to add that, due to great gold quantities in Italian caveau, the It Gov can easily hire Avistani werfull spellcasters.


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The biggest answer lies in "where in the ocean" does Italy find itself?

If it's far enough out, it may not have contact with the rest of Golarion for months.


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Sauce987654321 wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:

Things to bear in mind.

Their military tech engages at ranges not even magic from a 20th level caster can touch. An M16's maximum effective range is about 400 yards further than a 20th level caster using a long ranged spell.
No, no it wouldn't. All ranged weapons always get their range rescaled in PF. You would most likey see them as 120ft. ranged weapons, similar to the ranges you will see if you check out the technology guide or something similar that has automatic weapons.

Why is that? The longbow range is pretty accurate, a max range shot in edward the 3rds time with a flight arrow was about 1200 feet. 10X the range increment of a PF longbow is 1000 feet.

So the 4000 meter max range of a tank cannon would be 12000 feet or a range increment of 1200 after which -2 penalties start applying. Way way way way way farther than even long ranged spells come from.

Muskets aren't terribly far off from a real world effective range either. If they nerf other modern weapons its straight up a "this is a game balance issue" not a "hey what if the real world invaded golarion" issue.

Thats before we even get into the advancement of military tactics beyond line up your armies and march toward each other in an open field.

Liberty's Edge

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I'll say five to 6 hundred km weast ft rim Nidal and Cheliax Oceanic coast

Liberty's Edge

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*I'll say 5 to 6 hundred km west from....

Liberty's Edge

I agree with u Freire, better thinking about real dynamics than game balancing (ovviously if u want to translate it in sessions u must find the right game rules)
But u agree with me that a tank operator won't even see the blade wo kills him if he moves in the shadows, for ex?


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Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:

I agree with u Freire, better thinking about real dynamics than game balancing (ovviously if u want to translate it in sessions u must find the right game rules)

But u agree with me that a tank operator won't even see the blade wo kills him if he moves in the shadows, for ex?

Probably not but again, detection equipment for the military is really quite good. For example, do invisible people still give off heat? If so its pretty useless the instant knowledge of invisibility hits the military.


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You assume that world leaders weren't already aware of alternate magic dimensions with contingency plans for this.

One does wonder how powerful a cleric the Pope would be in Golarion.

Liberty's Edge

Freire: I agree.

But Mil aren't equipped for such things. This gives a little hope to Avist.


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Other details:

Where was the Italian navy at the exact moment of transposition? Pick a date and clock-time and look up exactly what is going at that moment in time in Italy.

If you're using Golarion, by "canon" it's only, what, 1921 or 1922?, historical Italy that would be transitioning into current Golarion time. Lots of Great War veterans, all kinds of shenanigans and now the Kingdom of Italy is in the middle of a much larger ocean without a land neighbor to be seen. Utter radio quiet from outside of the country. On the upside, you have a country that is far less modern - which in many way is a Good Thing for this scenario. Instead of jet aircraft, aircraft carriers, modern artillery, APCs, main battle tanks and a society about to suffer utterly horrific casualties from the sudden loss of electrical power, let alone the lost sanity from no internet, at all, asides from the national version - you have a lightly industrialized (by our standards) nation using rough analogs to the equipment presented in Rasputin Must Die.

I'd consider 'porting in 1921-1922 Italy instead of modern Italy. I think that Italy would handle the transition to Golarion with a smaller loss of life, proportionately speaking.


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Ryan Freire wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:

Things to bear in mind.

Their military tech engages at ranges not even magic from a 20th level caster can touch. An M16's maximum effective range is about 400 yards further than a 20th level caster using a long ranged spell.
No, no it wouldn't. All ranged weapons always get their range rescaled in PF. You would most likey see them as 120ft. ranged weapons, similar to the ranges you will see if you check out the technology guide or something similar that has automatic weapons.

Why is that? The longbow range is pretty accurate, a max range shot in edward the 3rds time with a flight arrow was about 1200 feet. 10X the range increment of a PF longbow is 1000 feet.

So the 4000 meter max range of a tank cannon would be 12000 feet or a range increment of 1200 after which -2 penalties start applying. Way way way way way farther than even long ranged spells come from.

Muskets aren't terribly far off from a real world effective range either. If they nerf other modern weapons its straight up a "this is a game balance issue" not a "hey what if the real world invaded golarion" issue.

Thats before we even get into the advancement of military tactics beyond line up your armies and march toward each other in an open field.

Why? That's because that's the way they make it. Everything is scaled down. Look at all the books with modern and futuristic weapons and look at their ranges. You won't find anything that goes much further than 200 ft. unless I missed something. They already have modern weapons in the game and how they function. There really is no speculation about how powerful they would be, anymore. So no, modern weapons aren't going to out ranging magic, as they have similar ranges in this game.


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Sauce987654321 wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:
Sauce987654321 wrote:
Ryan Freire wrote:

Things to bear in mind.

Their military tech engages at ranges not even magic from a 20th level caster can touch. An M16's maximum effective range is about 400 yards further than a 20th level caster using a long ranged spell.
No, no it wouldn't. All ranged weapons always get their range rescaled in PF. You would most likey see them as 120ft. ranged weapons, similar to the ranges you will see if you check out the technology guide or something similar that has automatic weapons.

Why is that? The longbow range is pretty accurate, a max range shot in edward the 3rds time with a flight arrow was about 1200 feet. 10X the range increment of a PF longbow is 1000 feet.

So the 4000 meter max range of a tank cannon would be 12000 feet or a range increment of 1200 after which -2 penalties start applying. Way way way way way farther than even long ranged spells come from.

Muskets aren't terribly far off from a real world effective range either. If they nerf other modern weapons its straight up a "this is a game balance issue" not a "hey what if the real world invaded golarion" issue.

Thats before we even get into the advancement of military tactics beyond line up your armies and march toward each other in an open field.

Why? That's because that's the way they make it. Everything is scaled down. Look at all the books with modern and futuristic weapons and look at their ranges. You won't find anything that goes much further than 200 ft. unless I missed something. They already have modern weapons in the game and how they function. There really is no speculation about how powerful they would be, anymore. So no, modern weapons aren't going to out ranging magic, as they have similar ranges in this game.

Oh right, in pathfinder non spellcasters cant have nice things.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

If it's in the Arcadian ocean near Azlant, I think the alghothu? would quickly seize control of the confused nation and reestablish a new Izlanti Empire.

Liberty's Edge

Mad Comrade: very good suggests.
I like to explore all the possibilities before putting them in practice and I like very much to do mental experiments, but I also love when everything is coherent with everything.
So I ask u: it's possible Golarion is Syncronized with Pathfinder Earth version (with Cthulhu mysteries and no paizo and so on) in the '20 and with our Earth (or another version of our earth -in which, for ex, Italy goes to Gol.-) in 2017?
I take the moment even to ask why in many publications they say for ex 4713 it's synchronized to 2013 (apparently even at the beginning of Snows of S.) and in Rasp. the things goes differently.
Someone knows why?
[I premit that I'm not so much convinced when in Rasp they put earth in the same universe of Gol., and I think this must be a cosmological misinterpretation. I think much more problable that even different Path/D&D world aren't in the same material plane, in different universes-because of the fact that instead u could pass for ex from Faerun to Golarion passing from City of Brass or other planar locations, so there are different Cities of Brass, different Elementaries Planes of fire, different plane-verses I'll say D&D Path world are in different universes, but in the same multiverse, sharing the same rules of physic and metaphysic and even some beings/ Locations (Asmo may be the same Asmo in Faerun and in Gol/ Abyss the same Abyss in Krynn and Gol -there are some reasons why I said they may share Abyss and not Limbus, instead-). (I take this consideration only in an internal coherence dynamic, volountary not thinking there are reasons, for ex, of intellectual properties that allows paizo develop to use names that Wizard can't register).
So Gol and Faerun are in different universes but in the same Multiverse; Gol and Earth (real earth; paizo earth; chtulu earth; sine requi earth -a nice European gdr I suggest everyone to try- and many other world are even far more ontological distant because situated in different Multiverses, that has little to shares one with the other in the way they are -but they are communicant-)
Excuse me for the excursus]

Liberty's Edge

P.s Mad Comrad
Of course would be useful to make a picture of the moment in which the event occurs: for ex: Italy has 2 aircraft carrier, one or both are somewhere else in the world?
There are instead some foreigner warships or nuclear submarine in the teleported waters (a line at the center of Adriatic Sea, offshore of west Sardinia cost, north of Malta in the Channel of Sicily -Leaving so Lampedusa and Pantelleria Italian islands on Earth-)?
How many commercial foreigner transient ships (a Chinese cargo shipping east can lost GPS communication in the middle of the former Adriatic Sea and decided to navigate with maps in the direction of Greece, finding instead Cheliax and an anostonished little wood ship crew, being the first, unprogrammed, contact)?
Some head of states in Rome for a Meeting?
Some important Italian (such as mr. Berlusconi) is abroad?
Example of the Chinese cargo underline how this events can changes many things

And, for the Arcadian thrown in the Med
There are Avistani vessels there?
And so one

Both for Nathan and Comrad sentences.
What can Italian find in Azlanti islands and cliffs?
(I imagine that they will focus their attention on Avistan, Garund and Arcadia instead of ruined cliffs, maybe send there one or two expeditions to study Azlanti ruins and, time later, to create air and ship bases, both military and civilian, to make the fuel sufficency grow for aircraft and ships going to Arcadia; for the same porpouse they may found a base in Valirian and Garundi west coast)

And, I'm very curious (we may not underestimate how interesting could be how things goes at the same time on earth.)
How our culture and cultural, scientific, religious, philosofical, psychological, way of considering things, changes?
How global agenda changes?
(Ovviously global economy at the beginning goes in un umpreceding recession, by the losing of Italy, which represent more than 2% of global GDP; and even political issues for UE and NATO first of all)
Than we probably have flooding and tsunami for submarine landslides due to different conformation of the sea bottom at the borders of Trasplanted Azlanti Pocket and Med.
Then we will see invasive strange "alien" species (a part from sea dragons etc, even little things, such as kinds of sharks we don't have. Than we sudden realize that Italy isn't just gone, but that something else has taken it's place, something caming from somewhere else. There will be a race to explore the Azlanti Ocean Pocket. Some boats, in stormy days will be sunked by krakens, Azlanti ruins will be discovered, maybe someone will be able to photograph low azlanti, the most astonishing discover.
For per porpouses of magic I'll say in The Azlanti pocket it still work, than it loses gradually power with the distance, having some effect till southern Spain, southern Scandinavia, Transilvania, Cyprus, North African Coastal Zone.
Arcane magic will work in that area, even Druidic, but not clerical. In the Azlanti Ocean Pocket area magic is complete functionant. In the rest of the world only artifactive magic and not casted magic.
How this event will change music, literature, science, common sense, for those who remains in this changed earth?


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Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:

Mad Comrade: very good suggests.

I like to explore all the possibilities before putting them in practice and I like very much to do mental experiments, but I also love when everything is coherent with everything.

So I ask u: it's possible Golarion is Syncronized with Pathfinder Earth version (with Cthulhu mysteries and no paizo and so on) in the '20 and with our Earth (or another version of our earth -in which, for ex, Italy goes to Gol.-) in 2017?

I take the moment even to ask why in many publications they say for ex 4713 it's synchronized to 2013 (apparently even at the beginning of Snows of S.) and in Rasp. the things goes differently.
Someone knows why?

[I premit that I'm not so much convinced when in Rasp they put earth in the same universe of Gol., and I think this must be a cosmological misinterpretation. I think much more problable that even different Path/D&D world aren't in the same material plane, in different universes-because of the fact that instead u could pass for ex from Faerun to Golarion passing from City of Brass or other planar locations, so there are different Cities of Brass, different Elementaries Planes of fire, different plane-verses I'll say D&D Path world are in different universes, but in the same multiverse, sharing the same rules of physic and metaphysic and even some beings/ Locations (Asmo may be the same Asmo in Faerun and in Gol/ Abyss the same Abyss in Krynn and Gol -there are some reasons why I said they may share Abyss and not Limbus, instead-). (I take this consideration only in an internal coherence dynamic, volountary not thinking there are reasons, for ex, of intellectual properties that allows paizo develop to use names that Wizard can't register).

So Gol and Faerun are in different universes but in the same Multiverse; Gol and Earth (real earth; paizo earth; chtulu earth; sine requi earth -a nice European gdr I suggest everyone to try- and many other world are even far more ontological distant because situated in different Multiverses, that has little to shares one with the other in the way they are -but they are communicant-)

Well, in Golarion terms,in-game year corresponds to real-world year for the simplicity of publication and tracking multiple APs of events for publication. This is a matter of convenience. It is easy to remember 47## Golarion calendar is 20## on our own real-world calendar. For GMs like me this is great as I map out AP start-to-finish dates. As other campaigns/APs are run, the results of the previously played APs make 'the news' via bards, gossip and so on.

For example, I know that in my campaign the combined Council of Thieves/Kingmaker campaign began in 4709, concluding in spring of 4719. By comparison, the most recent events in effect are those of Hell's Rebels which wrapped up in November 4715 with Slumbering Tsar preceding Rappan Athuk in the spring of 4716.

Reign of Winter's chapter 5 establishes 'our Earth' in the same Material Plane corresponding to (current real-world year -94) if I recall correctly. Rasputin Must Die was published in 2013 setting Earth's time as 1919 (going on memory), during the tail end of the Russian Revolution. So, as of the beginning of Ruins of Azlant, it is now 1923 on Earth. The Corfu Incident is (as of today) a scant three weeks away from beginning. Benito Mussolini has been Prime Minister for about nine months. And so on.

The purpose for the 'cosmological misinterpretation' is for the later incorporation of Lovecraftian-Earth events to reverberate to Golarion. Not long hence - 2019 I think? - Great Cthulhu stirs in his sunken city of R'lyeh. Perhaps an AP will feature a powerful group of adventurers from Golarion that have to stuff him back into his bed lest he fully awaken and drive a great many worlds utterly insane.

For your purposes, I would borrow from Oceans of Eternity to handle the transition. Another recreational reference of note is Eric Flint's enjoyable 1632 series .

Keep in mind that the scale of geography you're transitioning is enormous by comparison to either 1632 or Oceans of Eternity. At the same time, we're talking an interplanetary-and-interplanar transition. I suggest that the Earth from which Nantucket was plucked in Oceans of Eternity be the same Earth this version of Italy is yoinked from if you desire a current-day Italy. Keep in mind that it is imperative that you decide on the precise time of day, date and year this Italy *poufs* to Golarion from. Clocks will probably be wonky or stop, people's circadium rhythm might be thrown off, and so on.


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DIPLOMATICALLY

I suspect cheliax would get its ass righteously kicked not long after coming into contact with italy.

Devil worshipping slave holders? I suspect relations break down pretty quickly given the catholic bent of the nation and the sudden conversions when the nation sends like an imp messenger or contract devil to handle negotiations.

Edit: in fact I think Andoran is the closest thing a modern western nation would find to be palatable for an alliance


Might be more interesting to assume an island nation - say Great Britain. Slap Australia down. Somewhere. Etcetera.


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Keeping in mind the scale of transition, there are several very good reasons not to pluck over 116 thousand square miles of Earth with nearly 60 million people and slap them into the middle of the ocean. At a distance of 500 km you're probably about a smart enough distance. As a transposition the damage to both Earth and Golarion should be non-existent. If nothing else for the sake of simplicity. The drama will come with all the rest of what happens.

Nantucket is about 105 square miles, a vastly smaller difference in scope. 100-odd square miles is easy to hide by comparison. You also retain much finer control of what transitions over to Golarion and it gives the benefit of being able to drop it wherever you find convenient.

Having said my peace on recommended geographic scale ...

Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:

P.s Mad Comrade

Of course would be useful to make a picture of the moment in which the event occurs: for ex: Italy has 2 aircraft carrier, one or both are somewhere else in the world?

There are instead some foreigner warships or nuclear submarine in the teleported waters (a line at the center of Adriatic Sea, offshore of west Sardinia cost, north of Malta in the Channel of Sicily -Leaving so Lampedusa and Pantelleria Italian islands on Earth-)?

How many commercial foreigner transient ships (a Chinese cargo shipping east can lost GPS communication in the middle of the former Adriatic Sea and decided to navigate with maps in the direction of Greece, finding instead Cheliax and an astonished little wood ship crew, being the first, unprogrammed, contact)?

Some head of states in Rome for a Meeting?
Some important Italian (such as mr. Berlusconi) is abroad?
Example of the Chinese cargo underline how this events can changes many things

And, for the Arcadian thrown in the Med
There are Avistani vessels there?
And so on

Getting a lot of this sort of information from a relatively current standpoint is going to take a lot of research. This is part of why I'd recommend 1923 Italy instead ... but ... it seems that you are Italian and may justifiably not have any remote interest in setting a game in that time period.

300+ miles out to sea is well over the horizon, and almost everything on Golarion operates on line-of-sight. You will want to be sure that the entire peninsula plus ancillary islands, Sicily, et al do not wind up somewhere important. Such as Mengakari, the Shackles, in the Eye of Abendego, actually displacing important chunks of submerged Azlanti islands, etc.

Native trade routes are rarely going to go so far out to sea. Given the incredible fuel ranges of modern naval vessels, odds are quite good that the Italians will be making first contact with whatever else - and they've got exceptionally good sensor systems of all sorts to reconnoiter the surrounding area. Satellites are gone since those are well outside of any atmospheric volume above the Italian land-and-water zone. For the sake of simplicity, stick to Italy's maritime border as the outermost limit of geographical transition. No more than a few miles out.

Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:


Both for Nathan and Comrade sentences.

What can Italian find in Azlanti islands and cliffs?
(I imagine that they will focus their attention on Avistan, Garund and Arcadia instead of ruined cliffs, maybe send there one or two expeditions to study Azlanti ruins and, time later, to create air and ship bases, both military and civilian, to make the fuel sufficiency grow for aircraft and ships going to Arcadia; for the same purpose they may found a base in Varisian and Garundi west coast)

The answer is "it depends". The biggest hurdles are immediate needs, as you've previously mentioned. Food, potable water (since the rivers sourced from the Alps no longer have their water sources in at least some cases), medicine, electrical power and so on.

Feeding 60 million mouths when the country only domestically meets perhaps half of its food supply needs results in famine after a few weeks at most. Compare to 40 million mouths to feed in 1923 with what I presume is a much greater degree of agrarian and fishing self-sufficiency. Husbanding coal is much easier when its the primary power fuel source, the mines are productive and provides the principle fuel for steam engine turbines on the Italian Royal Navy's ships.

A modern Italy transitioning over will be dusting off its CTL (Coal-to-Liquid) technological archives and printing them out en masse before the modern-era power grid completely craps out on 'em.

Paper becomes incredibly valuable. Only a few locations are probably going to retain power generation - the masses will be reacquainting themselves with candles and the like.

Depending on the personalities involved, the country will either descend into anarchy, teetering on the precipice of annihilation, or pull together, weed out the incompetents very quickly and do its level best to survive. Famine and an astonishingly-fast depletion of medical supplies will probably kill off 25 - 40% of the overall population. 1923 Italy, being much more heavily armed and far less dependent on exotic pharmaceuticals and electricity to exist, should fare far better. The death toll will still be grim, perhaps as many as 1-in-7 or 1-in-8 die during the first few months.

Personalities are going to be the determining factor in how the Italians of either era set about adapting to their sudden new environment. With radar and sonar (even on many recreational boats), while power for them lasts, they have incredible sensory capabilities. It will not be easy to surprise the Italians - what will surprise them is what they encounter.

Because of the do-or-die-even-more nature of what the Italians suddenly find themselves dropped into I believe that they would 'button up' for several years. They have millions to feed and will probably experience a sudden population boom after the first year or two as the condoms and birth control pills/equivalent short-term population control method supplies are burned through. Semi-intelligent leadership will anticipate this.

Entertainment-based occupations as a principle thing are going to go away very quickly. Italy-in-the-Sea needs farmers, fishermen, machinists, dentists, doctors, teachers, you name it. Entertainment keeps up morale, so at first the existing, in-country crop of celebrities and pop stars et al will be tasked with keeping up morale and many I suspect will do so of their own accord.

Comparatively rudimentary pharmaceutical production will be stepped up as fast as possible. Because of analgesic and antibiotic needs across the country penicillin, marijuana (maybe - you know Italy far better than I do!) and probably a small supply of opiate-derivative crops are going to be necessary.

It's staggering the implications of what it would take to try and keep as many alive and fed as possible in this scenario.

Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:


And, I'm very curious (we may not underestimate how interesting could be how things goes at the same time on earth.)
How our culture and cultural, scientific, religious, philosophical, psychological, way of considering things, changes?
How global agenda changes?
(Obviously global economy at the beginning goes into an unprecedented recession, by the losing of Italy, which represent more than 2% of global GDP; and even political issues for UE and NATO first of all)
Than we probably have flooding and tsunami for submarine landslides due to different conformation of the sea bottom at the borders of transplanted Azlanti Pocket and Med.

Unlike Golarion, Earth is not receiving an entire inhabited nation in return. An Italy-sized swath of ocean floor and water one hopes is all Earth has to worry about. What horrors lurk within are in trouble since they're going to very quickly be surrounded, quarantined and if they're lucky they won't be obliterated with depth charges and torpedoes.

RmD implies that magic works just fine - the same as it does on Golarion - just that it's been very quiet due to the onset of the Age of Reason and the various iterations of Industrialization and Science.

Economically speaking for Earth, a 2% loss is a recession, not a global economic collapse, I think. Societal effects could occur if anything sentient, non-hostile and able to communicate effectively is able to keep itself from getting blown up or shot full of bullets. Rescue missions, constant patrolling to scour the new waters free of menaces to the world-at-large, the Earth-that-was is going to be busy for some years dealing with the disappearance. It is probably beyond the scope of play-ability to explore that side of the equation in-game.

Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:


Then we will see invasive strange "alien" species (a part from sea dragons etc, even little things, such as kinds of sharks we don't have. Than we sudden realize that Italy isn't just gone, but that something else has taken it's place, something coming from somewhere else. There will be a race to explore the Azlanti Ocean Pocket. Some boats, in stormy days will be sunk by krakens, Azlanti ruins will be discovered, maybe someone will be able to photograph low azlanti, the most astonishing discover.

This would probably be considered as confirmation of parallel dimension theory and similarly esoteric quantum physics type of stuff in modern Earth.

Luca Eugenio Barlassina wrote:


For purposes of magic I'll say in The Azlanti pocket it still work, than it loses gradually power with the distance, having some effect till southern Spain, southern Scandinavia, Transylvania, Cyprus, North African Coastal Zone.

Arcane magic will work in that area, even Druidic, but not clerical. In the Azlanti Ocean Pocket area magic is complete functional. In the rest of the world only artifactive magic and not cast magic.

How this event will change music, literature, science, common sense, for those who remains in this changed earth?

Too hard to predict. Initially expect movies, usually badly done, such as Cloverfield or Monsters. Millions of memes. Zealots declaring it a for-sure harbinger of the End Times. (Which would be a really rude surprise if certain Daemonic 'bosses' came strolling along as a result, but let's not presume.)

I refer you to the earlier excellent posts re: Vatican City and those who know more about the Roman Catholic Church than I do. On the upside, the current Pope seems like an awesome guy. Hopefully he's in Vatican City when the transposition hits...


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Consider the impact of spells like Charm Person and Dominate Person on the leadership of a country that has zero experience with magic.

It's not combat or technology that would ultimately decide the countries fate, it is the ability to maintain free will.


There are so many ancient unwarded crypts and catacombs in rome that an undead scourge is inevitable unless someone thinks to check

Liberty's Edge

I won't underestimate effect of Italy disappearance on world GDP, much more than 2% Italy world GDP: consider foreigner banks loaning money to Italians, foregneirs with money in Italian banks, investments in It. assets, householding, and all the companies trading with Italy. Probably it will in best case worts that 2008, in the word worst than 1929

And not overestimates the famine in Italy: more than 30% of the food is wasted in human food chain, in rich countries and this amount can be reduced; Italian ind is not heavly industrialized, with lot of little farmers. If they give priority to agriculture for the fuels there will be a minor reduction of production, some fieldscultivated for non alimentary uses can be converted in just a season and I guess every one living in the countryside will start making grow vegetables.
Maybe at the end they will lack 30% of the needs. If governement makes rationing it would be quite fine.

Liberty's Edge

Yes, infiltration will be a major problem, Vokan Abendroth, unique hope will be help from allied nations such as Andoran or to hire wizards with golden bars of the Italian central bank.


Apraham Lincoln wrote:
There are so many ancient unwarded crypts and catacombs in rome that an undead scourge is inevitable unless someone thinks to check

For some reason all I can think of is a specific young girl entombed in Palermo's catacombs in a glass coffin.

She's been there since her death in WWII and still looks like she could sit up at any moment.

Liberty's Edge

Why this idea Volkard?
You have seen it in a dream or something like that?


charm person et al is more likely to originate from spontaneous ability inside Italy than outside. Being more than 300 miles out to sea with Golarion's shabby naval tech (by comparison) is a massive buffer.


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Alright, which one of you jokers swapped my flash of insight potion with Cayden's booze?


Nethys, "Elder God" wrote:
Alright, which one of you jokers swapped my flash of insight potion with Cayden's booze?

Not the insight you were looking for, oh half-burnt one. ;)


I mean, if its "modern nation has to come to golarian and use the rules set down by paizo in their efforts to make a balanced game" Its really only the population, and knowledge of things like sanitation and modern medicine thats going to give the nation an edge and they'll have to be pretty careful.

If its, "things stop being an abstraction and behave the way they did in the real world" i really don't think even magic and monsters are enough to stop a modern nation from taking over whatever it is they choose to take over.

Liberty's Edge

Right consideration Ryan Freire

Liberty's Edge

But infiltration would be a major problem.

Very interesting 1632 Mad Comrade, thank u ;)


Infiltration presumes knowledge of 116,000+ square miles inhabited by 60 million (and dropping) victims are there for the taking. With the distance involved, the Italians are, for all practical purposes, safe from the natives until they are either discovered or reveal themselves. Given the immediate needs problems, revealing themselves is ... unlikely until they've solved their new problems and buried 10-20 million dead. And dealt with the sudden influx of 'real, live, working magic' into their midst.

This last will serve to keep them largely isolated for a decade at least. One does not simply sail to Displaced Italy. ;)

You could easily run several campaigns just adapting Displaced Italy to Golarion before introducing significant Golarion-native elements to the table.

1st campaign is surviving, then adapting, to the displacement. Grim at first, lots of nasty stuff, with lots of player-driven input into the future of Displaced Italy.

2nd campaign are the children of the 1st campaign, setting out to explore the world, based in large part on the decisions made during the first campaign.

And so on.

My suggestion would be to further distance Displaced Italy off shore, say about 1,000 km or a bit more, for this scenario. Set the first campaign at an arrival time of ~4675 A.R. by Golarion's calendar. This lets your 2nd generation campaign pick up with Rise of the Runelords "on schedule" in 4707. ;)

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