Can grenades be retrieved?


General Discussion

51 to 97 of 97 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

3 people marked this as a favorite.
sunderedhero wrote:
I think grenades obviously aren't reusable, but they really should cost around 10% of what they do.

If you find the grenades, that's basically the cost-benefit situation you're in. If you find a Frag Grenade III, you could sell it for (I think) 256 spacebucks, or you could use it. 2560 is a lot to spend, but 256 isn't that big a deal.

So while most classes won't buy grenades, they might still end up using them, depending on what loot there is in the campaign.


Ikiry0 wrote:


You can't get specialisation in grenades, which drops the ability to use low level ones a lot.

I was actually more meaning a build based around them, but... Wow, yeah. I didn't even notice that first go-through in regards to Weapon Specialization. That means that grenades are then literally worse than equivalent class features despite being infinitely more expensive.

I really gotta wonder what Frag Grenades are meant for, besides fluff.

Ironically, the grenades that are utilitarian - specifically the smoke and flash grenades, but arguably a few others could be - are things that we have reusable versions of right now, in real life. Meanwhile, the thing that is by it's very definition not reusable is still just as expensive while being less effective.

I really don't get the point of them. I mean, maybe it's just for the Soldier ability, but even then.

Again, going to see how it plays in a game rather than just looking on paper. Still, tho.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
gigyas6 wrote:
I really gotta wonder what Frag Grenades are meant for,

Hitting a bunch of things in one area.


Fardragon wrote:
gigyas6 wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
you are not always going to be able to afford to have all your gear at your level or higher. You are expected to continue to use lower level gear.

The issue is, the intent seems to be that item your average item level is supposed to, roughly, equate to your level. They're meant to be items equivalent to the expected power level at that stage of play.

My reading is you are expected to have about one item at or slightly above your level, with the rest of your gear lagging behind. Hence the low resale values on gear to discourage replacing it, and the money-sink ammunition.

Easy enough to check. Look at the "expected" credits at each level and compare it to the cost of fully equipping a character - I suggest a soldier - with a full set of equal level gear. You will find you don't have enough.

I don't like it - it puts a big load on the GM to keep dealing out the "correct" amount of wealth each adventure - but it's a clear design decision at the heart of Starfinder gameplay.

You can, at all levels, even if you buy the absolute most expensive options regardless of your actual proficiencies or preferences, afford both a weapon and armor of your level. It's most expensive at 1st level and 2nd level, when that's 84% or 89% of your WBL respectively, but it trends downwards, hovering at around half of your gear budget after level 13. You can definitely afford to keep your gear around your level, and splurge to get an item or two above your level.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
gigyas6 wrote:
I really gotta wonder what Frag Grenades are meant for,
Hitting a bunch of things in one area.

And as mentioned, there are other abilities available at the same levels that are more powerful and can be used more readily (and don't require a full-action to use). I get that they don't want the damage to necessarily compete with class abilities, but the high price is also going to make me second guess at ever buying it. If I wanted to hit a bunch of things in one area, I can just make a technomancer or a soldier and get the same effects for none of the price.

Elemental damage grenades I get - they seem to do a bit more damage, and elemental damage can have its uses against certain types of creatures, and bypasses DR. Frag grenades... Don't seem worth it, even with that in mind.


gigyas6 wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
gigyas6 wrote:
I really gotta wonder what Frag Grenades are meant for,
Hitting a bunch of things in one area.

And as mentioned, there are other abilities available at the same levels that are more powerful and can be used more readily (and don't require a full-action to use). I get that they don't want the damage to necessarily compete with class abilities, but the high price is also going to make me second guess at ever buying it. If I wanted to hit a bunch of things in one area, I can just make a technomancer or a soldier and get the same effects for none of the price.

Elemental damage grenades I get - they seem to do a bit more damage, and elemental damage can have its uses against certain types of creatures, and bypasses DR. Frag grenades... Don't seem worth it, even with that in mind.

Well the Technomancer is a spellcaster but I didn't see anything for the Soldier that gave them AOE abilities.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Well the Technomancer is a spellcaster but I didn't see anything for the Soldier that gave them AOE abilities.

Heavy Weapons are rather weighted towards the AOE front.


Aratrok wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
gigyas6 wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
you are not always going to be able to afford to have all your gear at your level or higher. You are expected to continue to use lower level gear.

The issue is, the intent seems to be that item your average item level is supposed to, roughly, equate to your level. They're meant to be items equivalent to the expected power level at that stage of play.

My reading is you are expected to have about one item at or slightly above your level, with the rest of your gear lagging behind. Hence the low resale values on gear to discourage replacing it, and the money-sink ammunition.

Easy enough to check. Look at the "expected" credits at each level and compare it to the cost of fully equipping a character - I suggest a soldier - with a full set of equal level gear. You will find you don't have enough.

I don't like it - it puts a big load on the GM to keep dealing out the "correct" amount of wealth each adventure - but it's a clear design decision at the heart of Starfinder gameplay.

You can, at all levels, even if you buy the absolute most expensive options regardless of your actual proficiencies or preferences, afford both a weapon and armor of your level. It's most expensive at 1st level and 2nd level, when that's 84% or 89% of your WBL respectively, but it trends downwards, hovering at around half of your gear budget after level 13. You can definitely afford to keep your gear around your level, and splurge to get an item or two above your level.

Including spare ammo and grenades?

Jet packs, weapon fusions?


Ikiry0 wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Well the Technomancer is a spellcaster but I didn't see anything for the Soldier that gave them AOE abilities.
Heavy Weapons are rather weighted towards the AOE front.

That, and at the very least get the grenades for free once every 10 minutes (which is basically Starfinder's equivalent to a short rest), and you can throw them further, and you can increase the AoE in which an explosion happens, and you can increase grenade damage (or other explosive/general AoE damage) by your Strength modifier - all if you're using the Bombard fighting style, which is focused entirely on AoE fighting.


gigyas6 wrote:
Ikiry0 wrote:
Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Well the Technomancer is a spellcaster but I didn't see anything for the Soldier that gave them AOE abilities.
Heavy Weapons are rather weighted towards the AOE front.
That, and at the very least get the grenades for free once every 10 minutes (which is basically Starfinder's equivalent to a short rest), and you can throw them further, and you can increase the AoE in which an explosion happens, and you can increase grenade damage (or other explosive/general AoE damage) by your Strength modifier - all if you're using the Bombard fighting style, which is focused entirely on AoE fighting.

Ah, I was just looking at the class, not all the weapons.

And I saw Bombard style, which is specifically about using grenades and other explosives. So grenades are great for Soldiers with that style, while everyone else has to find/buy them. For the former that's not really a problem since I don't think I've ever bought explosives in tabletops or video games, always found or looted them.


Well, grenades are ok for soldiers with that style. They still fall behind 'AOE gun' which Bombard also boosts but the free grenade every encounter is at least nice if you want to bring a situational toy like flash and Cyro grenades.

Frag/Incendiary/Shock seem really, really hard to ever justify when Heavy Weapons do the same job but better. The +2d12 on a shock grenade V for example looks really nice, until you remember you are losing out on the +20 static damage the Tempest Shock Caster is getting (And has 100 shots, rather than costing a heap of money per shot)

If missiles scaled (They only exist in explosive at level 10, never before or after) they'd be more or less objectively better grenades. A Tactical Missile does 6d8 vs 6d6, hits 30ft instead of 15ft, gets your +level from specialisation is 50 credits cheaper a shot AND a missile launcher isn't unwieldy so you can full attack with it(If you have the autoloading power armour/a few hands).


Missiles have to travel in a line (unless I missed some targeting ability), whereas you can lob a grenade to get it around things, which is nice.

The Tempest is nice, but it's not an AOE weapon (it can hit one more person on a crit but that's it).

Can you throw multiple grenades in a round?


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
The Tempest is nice, but it's not an AOE weapon (it can hit one more person on a crit but that's it).

Actually, the shock caster tempest has Explodes 20ft. It's actually got a bigger AOE than the grenade. The Heavy Weapon, not the Arc Caster (The Longarm one).


It was on the next page XD

It also only has 10 shots, not 100, since it's usage is 10.


Right. Still 9 more shots than you get out of the grenade so my general point mostly stands. :P


Well the gun also costs 7x more, so if it's gonna be something you use all the time then it's a better investment but if you have another weapon you prefer and only need electrical damage for say, 1 encounter then the grenade might be better.


The ammo for the gun is also expensive....


One thing this conversation does seem to indicate though that for those who like using grenades the soldiers bombard option seems like over the course of a career REALLY worth it cash to explosion wise. Basically have at least one high quality grenade up for every encounter at minimum.


Is the Bombad grenade making ability tied to class level or character level?


Fardragon wrote:
Is the Bombad grenade making ability tied to class level or character level?

Class, naturally. Class abilities are tied to class, with the exception of caster levels stacking.


Rysky the Dark Solarion wrote:
Can you throw multiple grenades in a round?

It seems like you can using Multiattack, but that requires two separate move actions, meaning at least a full round of preparation - even with quickdraw (as it would then be another full action to make the attack). Even *then*, it's already a relatively low DC, even with a high Dex, and that -4 from multiattacking is going to make it even worse.

That said, it is free damage regardless, unless something has evasion, like if it's a legacy monster or character (or if there's another source of evasion hidden somewhere in the book).


There are grenade launchers, and they don't have the Unwieldy property- you can load them with 6-12 grenades based on level and full-attack with them.


Man, a soldier going through a full attack with a grenade launcher could blow through SO much dosh in a single turn.

Though I'd lean against going it. -6 to the saves (As penalties to the attack roll apply to the saves too) is really painful if you are trying to get bang for your buck.


gigyas6 wrote:


That said, it is free damage regardless, unless something has evasion, like if it's a legacy monster or character (or if there's another source of evasion hidden somewhere in the book).

How is it free? If you're thinking about the Bombard class feature you only get 1 grenade at a time. Although making the number scale may be an interesting houserule.

Aratrok wrote:
There are grenade launchers, and they don't have the Unwieldy property- you can load them with 6-12 grenades based on level and full-attack with them.

That's actually not a bad idea considering the AC you're trying to hit is just a 5 so the penalties aren't that big of a deal...... except that penalties to your attack roll apply to DCs as well. >.< Also unless you're finding grenades like candy it's going to get real expensive real fast.

Scarab Sages Developer, Starfinder Team

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Since I just wrote this out for the AMA anyway:
Grenades are ranged weapons. Their description on page 183 is clear on that point. As a result, they use Strength as the bonus to their attack rolls. Grenades are heavy, and getting them within 5 feet of where you want them is about heft of throw as much as anything, and that's how thrown weapons work ([bad example removed in edit]).
Grenades do NOT have the thrown special weapon quality. This means they do not add Strength modifier to damage, and are not reusable. While science-fi does have some reusable grenades in it, the general definition of grenade defines a one-use item. If we ever opt to have reusable grenades, we'll call them out as exceptions.
The save DCs for grenades is based on Dexterity, and this is where your finesse of proper placement comes in.
Sadly, that is handled incorrectly in a a spot in the book. It's a known issue, and one we'll address sometime after the release date.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Does this not make grenades somewhat weak, being terribly expensive and also MAD between Strength and Dexterity? Then again, they are only nominally MAD, since a grid intersection is merely AC 5, so Strength will be relevant only during the lowest of levels.

Can someone have Weapon Specialization in grenade launchers, thereby gaining the level-based damage bonus to grenades? That would be one way to salvage the damage-based grenades, at least.


sunderedhero wrote:

How is it free? If you're thinking about the Bombard class feature you only get 1 grenade at a time. Although making the number scale may be an interesting houserule.

Not free as in finances or resources - free as in the damage will always apply, unless the creature has a particular resistance. Half damage on a successful save is still damage.


Hmm.. Does mechanic have any sorta "my own supply of explosives" ability?

They're naturally proficient in grenades and such. (last I knew) and I really wantedt hat to be something my character used with semi frequency...


Zwordsman wrote:

Hmm.. Does mechanic have any sorta "my own supply of explosives" ability?

They're naturally proficient in grenades and such. (last I knew) and I really wantedt hat to be something my character used with semi frequency...

Kind of, one of the tricks you can take lets you overload a powered weapon and turn it into a "grenade" of the same or lower item level that does the same type of damage.


sunderedhero wrote:
Kind of, one of the tricks you can take lets you overload a powered weapon and turn it into a "grenade" of the same or lower item level that does the same type of damage.

Speaking of which: What on earth do Bludgeoning and Slashing weapons turn into if you overload them? There is no bludgeoning or slashing grenades.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I would guess that defaulting to fragmentation when nothing else fits would be the most logical answer?


Ikiry0 wrote:
Speaking of which: What on earth do Bludgeoning and Slashing weapons turn into if you overload them? There is no bludgeoning or slashing grenades.

I'd assume frag grenades as the pieces would turn into shrapnel.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Grenades are heavy, and getting them within 5 feet of where you want them is about heft of throw as much as anything, and that's how thrown weapons work (the same is true of alchemist's fire in Pathfinder, for example).

Wait, what? Alchemist's fire uses dexterity on the attack roll in Pathfinder, so that's a very confusing example to use…


sunderedhero wrote:
I'd assume frag grenades as the pieces would turn into shrapnel.

Yeah but those do piercing damage and you need to turn into grenades of the same damage type. We don't currently have Gravity (Bludgeoning) or Monowire (Slashing) grenades.

Scarab Sages Developer, Starfinder Team

1 person marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
Grenades are heavy, and getting them within 5 feet of where you want them is about heft of throw as much as anything, and that's how thrown weapons work (the same is true of alchemist's fire in Pathfinder, for example).
Wait, what? Alchemist's fire uses dexterity on the attack roll in Pathfinder, so that's a very confusing example to use…

It is a bad example, and I edited to remove it. I was trying to discuss non-alchemist fire thrown weapons (Dex to attack, Strength to damage -- an example of divided ability scores, just a different example) in Pathfinder, opted to change my example, got called away from the AMA while changing it, didn't notice the failure to actual finish rewriting it, and then posted that example and cut-and-paste it here.

The rest of the post (including the fact grenades are explicitly thrown weapons, but do not have the thrown special weapon quality) is accurate.


sunderedhero wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:

Hmm.. Does mechanic have any sorta "my own supply of explosives" ability?

They're naturally proficient in grenades and such. (last I knew) and I really wantedt hat to be something my character used with semi frequency...

Kind of, one of the tricks you can take lets you overload a powered weapon and turn it into a "grenade" of the same or lower item level that does the same type of damage.

ah.. that is substantually disappointing... Seems like making free explosives out of scrap would've been a good thing for Mechanics as well. Even if it was just a lower level compared to the soldiers for balance sake or something

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Zwordsman wrote:
sunderedhero wrote:
Zwordsman wrote:

Hmm.. Does mechanic have any sorta "my own supply of explosives" ability?

They're naturally proficient in grenades and such. (last I knew) and I really wantedt hat to be something my character used with semi frequency...

Kind of, one of the tricks you can take lets you overload a powered weapon and turn it into a "grenade" of the same or lower item level that does the same type of damage.
ah.. that is substantually disappointing... Seems like making free explosives out of scrap would've been a good thing for Mechanics as well. Even if it was just a lower level compared to the soldiers for balance sake or something

A mechanic can have more than one at a time, and there is nothing in the ability preventing you from handing them over to your soldier friend to use to devastating effect. A handy way to turn low-value mook weapons you'd never use into cheap consumable explosives!


Owen, while I appreciate your input this still keeps the question raised with regards to why grenades are so ungodly expensive in the first place, giving very little relative bang for a lot of bucks. Like I said in my original post, if each individual grenade costs as much as it does in the book then no sane adventurer is going to buy more than one or two of the lower level ones (just in case), and no in-universe military or combat-oriented force is ever going to waste resources on such an inefficient use of monetary spending.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think maybe it'll work out as intended. Grenades aren't an "every round, every combat" weapon. They're used when necessary, and if they're necessary, the cost will be the last thing on a warrior's mind.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sigh wrote:
Owen, while I appreciate your input this still keeps the question raised with regards to why grenades are so ungodly expensive in the first place, giving very little relative bang for a lot of bucks. Like I said in my original post, if each individual grenade costs as much as it does in the book then no sane adventurer is going to buy more than one or two of the lower level ones (just in case), and no in-universe military or combat-oriented force is ever going to waste resources on such an inefficient use of monetary spending.

To be fair, with everything we've seen from Starfinder so far, assuming that PCs and NPCs work the same is a flawed assumption, combat-oriented forces can get these things cheaper because they aren't the PCs, it doesn't make sense but it's a common thing in these kinds of games. I'd imagine the intent would be more to get grenades from corpses, it seems like a way easier method than spending crazy money.


The point of grenades isn't to use them in every fight. Yeah, they do only a little more damage and cost way more. So don't use them on single targets, or even 2 targets! Grenades are for hordes of low level enemies


The Sideromancer wrote:
Depends on the grenade. I could see a fully energy-based one going off like a disco ball, only to be later picked up. Any form of non-explosive chemical load could just be reinserted into the container.

The Goa'uld had a "flash bang" spherical device like this, but I don't remember seeing anyone ever retrieving an expended one.


most of this game, from what i can tell, assumes you scavenge them off your opponents. The 10% sell back, the inflated price of consumables and the racharge cost of batteries all seem to be indicators that you are -not- supposed to buy your consumables. Instead find'em, pray your dm doesn't skimp, because you -cannot- afford them.

Scarab Sages

IonutRO wrote:
The section on thrown weapons says that thrown weapons are retrievable, there is no clause that says grenades are exempt.

um.. im sorry, do you understand the word "grenade".. its an explosive. when it goes off it is destroyed. very much like any other thrown aoe weapon in any other game. you cannot in pathfinder retrieve alchemist fire or thrown acid...grenades are destroyed by nature of them exploding. though..if you find a way. please contact your local recruitment team for the US military, im sure we would love to be able to find a nuclear weapon we could retrieve and reuse.


I prefer we not use the one-shot nukes we already have.


They're scifi grenades.. A whole different ball game.
For all we know the explosive or fire based ones could just be compressed air explosions venting through the openings. Which wouldn't damage casing etc.

Tons of possible phrasing


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Owen Stephens in a post higher up this page wrote that these grenades aren't reusable and any reusable grenades later on would be called out as such when they're introduced. He's a Starfinder dev, it's a reasonable position, discussion over really.

51 to 97 of 97 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Starfinder / Starfinder General Discussion / Can grenades be retrieved? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.