Sneak attack damage house rules.


Homebrew and House Rules


Just curious I've noticed some people say sneak attacks damage looks good on paper but doesn't add up well over all. I realize some of this is the delivery mechanism. you have to catch your opponent flat footed or flanking etc.

Specifically for the rogue what is some house rules you guys use or maybe something we can come up with together to bump sneak attack without making it to powerful.

two talents I currently have in mind are

increase the die to d8's instead of d6's

Boosting the one that lets you reroll ones to rerolling 1's and 2's


Oh or a talent that lets you feint more the once per combat.


if you want to improve it i would say give it a boost in actual being able to use it more often for the trade off of losing SA die


I'm thinking maybe more rogue talents that let you use it in special circumstances. like one i'm working on vengeance strike where after you were hit in combat you can sneak attack the enemy that hit you on your next turn.

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Well, I don't think you need to fix sneak attack to fix the rogue. Pathfinder unchained already did that with dex to damage (including 1.5 times dex for two handing) and debilitating strike making their lower accuracy less of an issue.

Though if I were looking for some good talents, allowing the rogue to feint as a swift action after hitting an enemy seems like a pretty good place to start. Works for both two weapon and single weapon fighting styles, and allows them to take the improved/greater feint line of feats, or the two weapon feint feats for the feint to apply to the whole round. So with investment, it's actually slightly better than two weapon feinting.


I like that idea. I agree the unchained rogue is a good fix. debilitating injury is awesome. I just wanted to toy around with rogue talents that would actually increase combat ability. While still focusing on what they have.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
Just curious I've noticed some people say sneak attacks damage looks good on paper but doesn't add up well over all. I realize some of this is the delivery mechanism. you have to catch your opponent flat footed or flanking etc.

It has to be somewhat situational, otherwise ~2 bonus damage per level* would be seriously overpowered. Remember that swashbuckler only gets 1 per level, while being restricted to one-handed fighting. Even a paladin usually gets only 1, despite a limited number of uses per days and being restricted to evil targets.

Quote:
Boosting the one that lets you reroll ones to rerolling 1's and 2's

Rerolling the 1s means roughly +12% damage* - that's not too shabby for a single rogue talent. At least if you don't factor in the lowered AB. Also rerolling 2s has less impact, it increases the bonus from ~12% to ~19%.* Unchained already beefed up these two rogue talents, but they are still no default choice.

Actually, there are already a lot of ways to make sneak attack work:

1) Flanking
2) Stealth
3) Feint, action cost can be reduced to swift action (Wave Strike) or attack (Two-Weapon Feint, Feinting Flurry)
4) Dirty trick (blind)
5) Charge, via scout archetype
6) Movement, via scout archetype
7) Vanish via major magic / vanishing trick
8) Gloom magic, greater gloom magic
9) Shatter Defenses (feat intense though), especially with rake archetype (sacrifice d6s for free action demoralize)
10) Surprise Follow-Through (also feat intense, but Cleave is more interesting with a 3/4 BAB)
11) Hunter's surprise 1/day, at level 10+
12) Any sleep, stun, paralysis etc. effect friendly casters apply to foes

Many of them need some investment, so you can't have everything - but it's possible to squeeze most of them into the first 10 levels.

*:

Spoiler:
Rogue's sneak attack is ~2 bonus damage per level: 1d6 is 3.5 in average, comes every odd level (hence 1.75 per level), with a headstart at level 1 (hence rounded up to 2).

Rerolling the 1s means roughly +12% damage: Average damage of a single die increases to (3.5 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6) / 6 = ~3.917. Divide that by the normal 3.5 and you get ~1.119, meaning a ~12% increase.

Also rerolling 2s: Average die damage becomes (3.5 + 3.5 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6) / 6 = ~4.17. Divided by 3.5 you get ~1.19.


Make half of the sneak attack dice available on any hit.

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Sneak attack would be totally fine if Stealth in combat wasn't broken. The Stealth rules assume that everyone has eyes on the back of their heads and are constantly observing everything at once in a 360-degree arc around them.

Change the rules so you can actually sneak up and shank someone in combat without being invisible, and you should see sneak attack becoming a lot more reliable.


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Cyrad wrote:

Sneak attack would be totally fine if Stealth in combat wasn't broken. The Stealth rules assume that everyone has eyes on the back of their heads and are constantly observing everything at once in a 360-degree arc around them.

Change the rules so you can actually sneak up and shank someone in combat without being invisible, and you should see sneak attack becoming a lot more reliable.

Now that is an interesting thought.


I once thought of a system where sneak attacking would either expand your crit range or just always be a crit threat. Combined with early access to various crit feats this seems like it could potentially be pretty powerful. The groups I play in also use crit decks, and gaining access to extra crit cards could be powerful too (though obviously not all groups like the cards)

I'd actually like it to be harder rather than easier to achieve sneak attack. Conversely the effect when you do accomplish it would probably need to be greater to make it worthwhile. I'm not sure if that would be easy to work into the average game though since sneaking around and taking out enemies with complete surprise might not happen that often compared to just flanking or feinting.


Cyrad wrote:

Sneak attack would be totally fine if Stealth in combat wasn't broken. The Stealth rules assume that everyone has eyes on the back of their heads and are constantly observing everything at once in a 360-degree arc around them.

Change the rules so you can actually sneak up and shank someone in combat without being invisible, and you should see sneak attack becoming a lot more reliable.

stealth is already broken as is it doesn't need any buffs


I saw a homebrew once:

Basically, it gave Rogues a +1 to damage per odd level on all attacks, which became +1d6 per odd level when meeting sneak attack requirements.

So, a 5th level rogue gains a +3 damage or a +3d6 when sneak attacking.

Not sure if this "breaks" the maths or not...


It gives me an idea however Thanks!

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