Bloodline Mutation Cross Class Clarification


Rules Questions


I'm making a winter witch with a one level dip into sorcerer and I have a question regarding bloodline mutations, specifically havoc.

In the text where it says "Whenever you cast a bloodrager or sorcerer spell" do I take that to mean when you cast as a bloodrager or sorcerer, or when you cast a spell on either list?

For my purposes, if as a witch I cast cone of cold do I get to apply the bonus damage per die?

Liberty's Edge

Since the orc and dragon bloodlines generally add damage to spells cast from other classes, I would guess so - still provided it was a bloodline spell or you took spell focus: evocation.


When you casts spells using your sorcerer or Bloodrager level. Unlike bloodline arcana it appears the mutations only apply to those two classes, not every class you have.


blashimov wrote:
Since the orc and dragon bloodlines generally add damage to spells cast from other classes

Those are different, they say "whenever you cast a spell...", with no mention of class.

In this case, the ability applies only when casting spells using your Sorc or Bloosrager spell casting, not to other classes which happen to also have the spell on their list.


So, ask my GM. This isn't society play.

I find it bizarre that I could dip crossblooded Orc/Draconic to get a similar, if not better, benefit, but that's Pathfinder for you. I just didn't want to do that for background reasons.

Out of curiosity I'm trying to think of a situation where this instance breaks the game(more). You can't apply a bloodline mutation to any archetype that has manipulated bloodline powers, so it's not like you could stack crossblooded with havoc. Is there another bloodline or build out there that would so greatly benefit from havoc as opposed to just flat out Orc/Draconic crossblooded? I guess I can buy that the devs were just trying to give sorcerers/bloodragers something unique, but the optimizer in me craves more.

Anyway, thanks for your responses!


I'd suggest it means using a spell slot from those classes to cast.

The reason is I assume because blood havoc effects force spells, Draconic can't. Therefore this allows sorcerers to blast using force spells at +2 damage per dice.

honestly I've always thought the old crossblooded dip was kinda cheesy and didn't really need making stronger.


TheWheelWeaves wrote:

In the text where it says "Whenever you cast a bloodrager or sorcerer spell" do I take that to mean when you cast as a bloodrager or sorcerer, or when you cast a spell on either list?

The former. A spell counts as a [class] spell for whatever class's spell slot you used to cast it. So even though the spell may be on the witch's spell list, it doesn't count for Blood Havoc unless you use a bloodrager/sorercer spell slot to cast it.

I'm playing a winter witch with a level of Orc/Draconic crossblooded sorcerer, and wished I could use Blood Havoc. As it stands I'll just have to be content with the +4 damage per die on Cone of Cold instead of +5.

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