Hi,
After going back and forth over what type of character I wanted to play I decided on the the Spirit Guide double life oracle. I'm going to be buffing the party and taking on the main healing role. However, I'm stuck on what race to be. I can go human for the extra feat, elf for the Class bonus option, or kitsune for some extra SLA per day, or create my own race with about 11-12 points.
The feats I plan on taking would be fey foundling, selective channeling, quicken channeling. I'm unsure about reactive healing (for emergencies) and beacon of hope (to buff the party while I channel).
I want to be efficient and contribute as much as I can to the group. I figure getting quicken channel soon will allow me more extra action economy to buff the party and debuff enemies. I'm just not sure which race to take. The Human, kitsune, and custom race are the top choices. The only reason for the elf is because the DM masse some special plant version of them that can gain some abilities. I'm leaning towards human or the custom just so I can have an extra feat, but again, I'm unsure.
If anyone has any insight into a life oracle or tips please drop by and share it. The game is later tonight and I'm stuck on what to do. Thanks for your help.
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Go kitsune and pick up the wrecking mysticism curse. Let's you trade away your mystery spells (which you get anyway from the life wandering spirit) for magical tail feats for cool SLAs. Otherwise you end up with knowing the same list of extra spells known twice.
Do you have a chosen deity? If not, I propose either Pharasma or Milani for their awesome channel feats: Pharasma and Milani
More good feat choices: Bless Equipment, Improved, and Greater
Go kitsune and pick up the wrecking mysticism curse. Let's you trade away your mystery spells (which you get anyway from the life wandering spirit) for magical tail feats for cool SLAs. Otherwise you end up with knowing the same list of extra spells known twice.
Do you have a chosen deity? If not, I propose either Pharasma or Milani for their awesome channel feats: Pharasma and Milani
More good feat choices: Bless Equipment, Improved, and Greater
I think I like the bonuses for Milani more than the reroll. As for bless weapon that's not bad but we have a large party. Even with all the extra channels I have from 2 pools of it I don't think I'll have enough for that as well.
As for kitsune, it's not bad.to get those spell like abilities but wouldnt it be better to have an extra feat earlier for going human or custom race?
I think I like the bonuses for Milani more than the reroll. As for bless weapon that's not bad but we have a large party. Even with all the extra channels I have from 2 pools of it I don't think I'll have enough for that as well.
As for kitsune, it's not bad.to get those spell like abilities but wouldnt it be better to have an extra feat earlier for going human or custom race?
Another feat is always nice to have, but unless you're going for a feat heavy build, you could always do without it. I think I'd go for the kitsune, better racials, and you get all those sla's.
One thing to bear in mind is that the bonus from Milani is a morale bonus so will not stack with heroism or good hope which are both pretty common buffs.
Ah. That's true. Good catch.
In that case am I better better off going for Pharasma and using those spells? Or Pharasma and still using thoae spells vut in a wand or scroll, freeing up spells known for other buffs/spells?
I think I might do a wand of bless instead of wasting a spell known since Oracle's get less spells known vs. A cleric which knows them all from their list.
Life oracle is a somewhat feat hungry build. You almost have to take fey foundling, because life link is all about healing others by healing yourself. Then you have to have selective channel to be able to heal in combat. And with all of those extra channels, it'd be wrong not to grab quick channel.
So, the bonus human feat is super tempting, but if you can wait it out, the kitsune wrecking mysticism is like getting several fun bonus feats over the life of the character. It's a tough choice.
heroism can be common, but probably not spammed onto everyone, and good hope is "common" if there's a buffing bard or a special cleric, but it's not a common spell to have access to.
So mass heroism is great!
Life oracle is a somewhat feat hungry build. You almost have to take fey foundling, because life link is all about healing others by healing yourself. Then you have to have selective channel to be able to heal in combat. And with all of those extra channels, it'd be wrong not to grab quick channel.
So, the bonus human feat is super tempting, but if you can wait it out, the kitsune wrecking mysticism is like getting several fun bonus feats over the life of the character. It's a tough choice.
lv1 fey foundling
lv3 selectivelv7 quick
like the only thing delayed is selective lv1 and 2 you can probably get by without channeling or moving to not catch enemies.
Hello, I play a lvl 9 assimar life oracle spirit guide battle/fire. I would never go double life. You loose your revelations and the best part of spirit guide, the extra spells, for some extra channels...I have quick channeling and 6 uses a day of channel which is plenty. Normaly I use 2 quickened ones and 2 normal. Channeling really isn t that powerfull that you build a whole character around it. You ll have plenty of low lvl spells to heal out of combat and channeling does fall behind the big hits of enemies.
I don t have life link but i always use shield other on the party barbarian. 5 hp a round isn t going to safe anyone at lvl 8 where some mobs do 30+ hp dmg a hit. So fey foundling really isn t necessary. From the race suggestions you gave I would probably choose Kitsune for stats, style and the enchantment bonus. Halfelf also is very apealing for the extra spells known, specially if you re the only support class in your group. I miss out on the xtra spells so my most important magic item is a mmnemonic vestment, which allows me to use 1 scroll without expanding it. Else you ll use up all your slots with cure spells.
If i would rebuild my character i would take a cool caster mystery like heavens or lunar for battlefield control and use life spirit guide to get the channeling at lvl 7. Life oracles really aren t that exiting to play at low lvls, but I do love my high lvl oracle and the flavour is really strong.
Quick channel is pretty powerful. It allows you to heal your allies, while still having a standard action to cast spells to end the encounter sooner. And quick channel uses up two channels which can be expensive for most channelers, but not the double life oracle.
I will say that the healing can be so extreme that it makes combat boring though. When your party has zero chance of dying, you want to start doing other things to make it interesting.
And kitsune's wrecking mysticism makes the doubled spells into extra tails.
edit: Also, how much healing you actually need can vary a lot by group and campaign. A 4 man group in giant slayer will burn through every single channel. A 5 man group in hell's rebels will barely ever need to be healed.
It's a custom campaign where magic is a bit in the lower end or more scarce I think. We are a group of 6 or 7 players, so I think we will need the healing more, even if we have a few divine casters. However those casters, a ranger, paladin, and druid wont necessarily be buffing and only rarely healing if they need to.
For stats I'm thinking:
Str: 12 - 2 kitsune= 10
Dex: 12 + 2= 14
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 18 + 2 kitsune= 20
I'm assuming since I'll have a low strength I'm rarely going to use a weapon.
I can take 3 traits (1 drawback). I'm going to take Dangerously Curious to get UMD. I'm mot sure on the other 2 though.
As for feats:
1. Fey Foundling
3. Selective Channeling
5. Quicken Channeling
7. Beacon of hope
9. Reactive healing
11. Extra revelation: life link (Oracle's is better than the Spirit Guide version)
I'll switch out the kitsune magic so that I can become a fox as Beast Shape II, so I can recon or stealth somewhere if need be.
My only issue is picking spells known. I'm going to keep away from the cure spells because I can perhaps get a wand of CLW and bless hopefully. Plus with all the channeling, life link, and such I don't think I'll need the cure spells to be known
I'm looking for good spells to buff/debuff, help out the party though. Anything interesting?
There's no point to life link at level 1 I would only be able to use it for 1 use then cut it off before I possibly die myself. I can gain revelation oyher ways till I get it permanently at a higher level. It's use with shield other is really good.
There's no point to life link at level 1 I would only be able to use it for 1 use then cut it off before I possibly die myself. I can gain revelation oyher ways till I get it permanently at a higher level. It's use with shield other is really good.
It is also decent out of combat when paired with a wand of cure light wounds or Energy body.
By cure spells I didn t mean heals, but cure disease, poison, lesser restoration, remove curse and such. They are essentials for a support character and will occupy alot of your spell slots.
Spells:
1. Murderous command, bless, cause fear( early lvls) divine favour, endure elements, remove fear, sanctuary
2. Shield other, Protection from evil communal, silence, bulls strenght, burst ofnradiance, delay disease, delay poison, lesser restauration, ghostbane dirge, make whole, endure elements communal, sound burst
3. Prayer, magic vestment, dispel magic, remove blind/ deafness, remove curse, resist energy communal
4. Summen monster 4 arch hound, airwalk, blessing of fervor, dimensional anchor, freedom of movemnt, holy smite.
You ll need the druid to help you out with some of the remove spells, else your list will be very limited. That s why I say it makes no sense to go double life. You need those extra spells known from the spirit guide, it s the whole reason you take the archetype. As a spontaneous caster your spell selection is extremely limited and expanding it is what s gona give you the power. You ll have plenty of spells and heals to throw around but what you lack is versatility and that s what makes the spirit guide one of the best archetypes for oracles. What i don t like about life link is that it makes it basic necessary to heal 2 people every round, yourself and the person being hit by the big mob. While alot of the healing is wasted on people who aren t really in danger. Shield other makes it so that you don t always have to run to the frontline everytime your tank is being hit. You re absorbing enough dmg that he ll stay alive for another round and you can do something else then channel every round. Which is a really bad use of your actions. I just feel you re pumping all your ressources into channeling. Your making yourself a healbot.
At level 4 I get back the spells I traded away. After that I have gained more but lost nothing. By taking quicken channel, I can channel as a move action and use my standard to cast spells.
I did not take any channeling feats except selective channel, since the ability is second rate and falls beside the way in the teen levels. At least it does for a life oracle. Unless you get access to channeling options, the ability finally stays unused (and you need your movement actions).
Since my experience was thus, I cannot recommend investing feats into channeling. There are others you might like: improved initiative, spell penetration, reach spell, divine intervention.
Also, any extra revelation is a feat wasted. In the end you get all of the useful ones without it.
Lifelink can be useful, at least in the mid-levels, when you have the hitpoints for it. Any item or power granting fast healing will improve on it. It can be used to balance damage within the group, with the ideal ending being a channel for all to top them off and one large healing for you (unless you have fast healing). Once the enemy starts hitting for 50+, it starts to become less useful in direct combat, but can still redirect fast healing within the group afterwards.
My spells at low levels were:
1.: bless, ray of hope, remove fear, sanctuary
2.: lesser restoration, protection from evil, comm., remove paralysis, shield other, soundburst
3.: dispel magic, prayer, remove blindness/deafness, resist energy, comm.
4.: airwalk, blessing of fervor, freedom of movement
Channeling is not second rate when combined with life link. Life link allows you to more evenly distribute the damage among the party before healing it all with a channel. And also, The bonus of fey foundling with channel is pretty big.
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I did not take any channeling feats except selective channel, since the ability is second rate and falls beside the way in the teen levels. At least it does for a life oracle. Unless you get access to channeling options, the ability finally stays unused (and you need your movement actions).
Since my experience was thus, I cannot recommend investing feats into channeling. There are others you might like: improved initiative, spell penetration, reach spell, divine intervention.
Also, any extra revelation is a feat wasted. In the end you get all of the useful ones without it.Lifelink can be useful, at least in the mid-levels, when you have the hitpoints for it. Any item or power granting fast healing will improve on it. It can be used to balance damage within the group, with the ideal ending being a channel for all to top them off and one large healing for you (unless you have fast healing). Once the enemy starts hitting for 50+, it starts to become less useful in direct combat, but can still redirect fast healing within the group afterwards.
My spells at low levels were:
1.: bless, ray of hope, remove fear, sanctuary
2.: lesser restoration, protection from evil, comm., remove paralysis, shield other, soundburst
3.: dispel magic, prayer, remove blindness/deafness, resist energy, comm.
4.: airwalk, blessing of fervor, freedom of movement
When I did the Double Life I only took Selective and Quick Channel. Channel feats are wasted on a cleric for sure. Only build worth them is the Hangover cleric. But on an Oracle of Life Selective is the Must have so you are not healing enemies. But reactive healing is second rate (Sub Par) way of supporting. Not that it does not work but is a waste of resources and risk making the fights drag out longer.
I did use Divine Intervention, Toughness (plus a 16 con for SHield other), Craft Wondrous (not PFS), Reach spell. I did not use Fey Foundling for 2 reasons...I was Shabti and it's abused.
I can agree extra revelation is pretty pointless when you can BUY revelations via Soothsayer's Raiment and rings.
For Life Link, I only kept it on the main melee folks. Pairing the ability with energy body made for some decent healing in the mid game.
My spells were:
(Cure spells and Mystery spells)
1- Shield of Faith, Unbreakable heart, Moment of Greatness, Sanctuary Charm Person (worshiped Shelyn Hardcore so DM allowed me to take it like a cleric can)
2- Shield Other, Heroic Fortune, Protection from Evil Communal, Spiritual Weapon (DM allows Oracles to use CHA for this)
3- Resist Energy Communal, Prayer, Dispel Magic, Magic Vestment
4- Good Hope (Shelyn Spell), Freedom of Movement
5- Life Bubble
We actually pick very similarly spells and such. But I do agree on a few things you did say.
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My end game is build up to 10d6 burst at 13, and take level dip into holy vindicater. +10 sacred bonus to AC with good armor and shield nets a high AC. I have always found channels to be useful. Going to work in new feat from new Advanced guide, that will let damage one critter while healing allies.
life link basecly forces you to heal yourself every odd round, which is counter productiv. If you have that many channels and can use it as move action, there is no reason to take life link. Life link makes sense for a very short period of the game, where it enables you to not have to heal allies, because you keep their hp up by taking some dmg off them. But after lvl 6 channel and life link are just not enough to keep someone up who s taking 60-80 dmg a round. That s when crowd control, shield other and single target heals become essential.
My end game is build up to 10d6 burst at 13, and take level dip into holy vindicater. +10 sacred bonus to AC with good armor and shield nets a high AC. I have always found channels to be useful. Going to work in new feat from new Advanced guide, that will let damage one critter while healing allies.
I had like a 40+ AC at the end of my game with Medium armor and a shield. Sanctuary as well for added effect. Was walking about the field provoking AoOs and just not caring.
Another AC option is a Ring of Invisibility since a dedicated healer doesn't really attack much.
I've often thought of making a Channel- focused build. I like the Bless Equipment line of feats (bane is so awesome), and the aasimar Channel Force line of feats also looks like fun. The build is too feat-starved to really do both though. Anybody have thoughts on which line is better?
But after lvl 6 channel and life link are just not enough to keep someone up who s taking 60-80 dmg a round. That s when crowd control, shield other and single target heals become essential.
If you combine shield other, double life link, channel and fey foundling it is enough. Assume level 7. Tank takes 80 damage, that gets divided with oracle for 40. On oracle's turn double life link transfers 10 more damage from tank to oracle. So, now the tank is missing 30 health and the oracle is missing 50. The oracle does a quicken channel healing for an average of 14 to the tank and 22 to himself.
So, now we went from 80 damage on a tank to only 16, with 28 damage on the oracle. And oracle still has a standard action to use up another channel or cast a spell for whatever effect is needed.
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My three biggest issues with these builds having seen 5 or 6 of them in play at various levels are:
1) Immediate action to dismiss life link. With two up you can't stop them when you need too.
2) It takes a standard or a move (get out of range to end shield other).
These two lead to the healer going down before they expect to.
3) Smart ememies like smart players focus fire. If damage is only happening to one person, the effectiveness of the build goes down quickly.
I'm going to show you 2 builds that I have that played around with, that are similar, but help address these problems. This is not to get you to change your builds but they may give a little inspiration.
Build 1 - Shaman witch doctor
Shaman Witch Doctor life spirit. Two channel pools, worship pharasma for fateful channel, take evil eye/misfortune, dip one level dual cursed oracle, now you heal and mitigate damage. Take a protector familair to increase your own health and give an extra channel target.
You have two modes. Focused fire mode using shield other on the one person being hit, and soak up a ton of damage. Force rerolls on crits.
Spead out damage mode. Life link is used and you can still soak more damage and get the extra familiar channel target.
Build 2 - One man army (with two friends)
There are several ways to build this, but what you want is a bodyguard animal companion. That AC can buff allies ac and jump in front of hits, add in channeling abilities now you can force the damage to be spread around. Eventually, if you can get a familiar (protector only needs to be level 3) gives you more Health and an extra channel target. This does take a while to get going though which is a pain. (easiest way if your GM lets you is a feather domain/eagle domain cleric, Fur domain/monkey domain)
You can stop any number of your life links with the same immediate action. But if you are using double life link, then you'd be out of luck for half of it, as it would take a separate immediate action to end those.
Even smart enemies won't know which ally you've put shield other on. You'll have plenty of combats to figure out which one gets targeted the most and so needs the shield other the most.
A trick I don't see mentioned much is to use the imbue with spell ability spell to give your tank the shield other spell. This allows your tank to "tank" even when he's not being targeted.
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You can stop any number of your life links with the same immediate action. But if you are using double life link, then you'd be out of luck for half of it, as it would take a separate immediate action to end those.
Thank for clarifying that is indeed what I ment.
Even smart enemies won't know which ally you've put shield other on. You'll have plenty of combats to figure out which one gets targeted the most and so needs the shield other the most.
They can use knowledge arcana to figure it out but most gms don't seem to use knowledge check on PCs. The concern was more that focusing fire nullifies the value of life link. You can always cast shield other in combat if absolutly necessary but your going to need to by a bunch of rings if you want to be able to do that.
A trick I don't see mentioned much is to use the imbue with spell ability spell to give your tank the shield other spell. This allows your tank to "tank" even when he's not being targeted.
Good trick.
I always worry about the Fireball situation with shield other + double life link especially flat footed.
You can always cast shield other in combat if absolutly necessary but your going to need to by a bunch of rings if you want to be able to do that.
In theory, you just need a single platinum ring for each member of your party. I'd choose to do this anyway as you never know when you might need to cast shield other.
Another thing I like to do, but it's hard because of the feat starvation, is pick up reach spell. Reach spell allows your shield other target to get much farther from you, before ending the spell.
@grandlounge: If I'm sure on sticking with the oracle what's the easiest way of getting the familiar, eldritch heritage? Which channeling abilities are you referring to to spread it around?
@Louis Bishop: how were you getting the AC that high and provoking AoO? Just walking through threatened squares?
After having a couple of sessions I've seen the party makeup and whatever lacking and ehat role I sorta need to fill. We have a paladin (he wants to use he's LoH primarily for smite), druid, alchemists poisoned, a large frontline guy, another melee warrior, and a swashbuckler.
We have besides me 2-3 other sub healers if they wanted to. I'm going to focus on buffing the party and helping when I can. I do agree with what some of you have said about channeling not being that effective at higher levels as it won't scale well. I would have to go full-time into that role to mitigate as much damage as I could.
So my current path options look to be as follows:
1. Stay as the full life oracle spirit guided with Life spirit. Focus on channels, buffing the party, doing support.
2. Pick up a familiar (2 feats needed to get this, skill focus and eldritch heritage). Allow my familiar to be a damage sponge. Anything else I can do with them? (Never had a familiar or animal companion before). Cast party buffs and help out the party best I can via casting.
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Thus far I'm a Kitsune Oracle Level 2 with the Life Mystery.
I picked up a UMD trait, finding haleen for +1 To HP and skills, and blessed touch to gain +1 for healing.
@Louis Bishop: how were you getting the AC that high and provoking AoO? Just walking through threatened squares.
10 + Mithral Breastplate (+6), +3 Dex modifier, +4 Magic Vestment on Breastplate, Mithral Heavy Shield (+2), +4 Magic Vestment on Shield, +4 Deflection Bonus (Shield of Faith), +7 Natural Armor (Ironskin)= 40
Really the Cleric List Having Ironskin, Shield of Faith, Magic Vestment you can stack your AC pretty Darn high. As a Spirit guide I could have went Lore Spirit for some more AC but when the healer has more AC than the Cavalier in full plate I do not want to draw too much attention to myself from the GM...I just calmly state Miss and let the Cavalier think he is the AC man of the group...haha
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@grandlounge: If I'm sure on sticking with the oracle what's the easiest way of getting the familiar, eldritch heritage? Which channeling abilities are you referring to to spread it around?
Shield other is most effective when the enemy is focusing fire. Life link is best when there is AOO damage or damage is being spread around.
Bodyguard and In Harm's Way are great for spreading damage around. This, is addition to a protector familiar gives you, the person being attacked, the familiar, and the animal companion to channel on.
Eldritch heritage is the best way. Several racial traits make this easier by giving skill focus.
@ Louis: wow, that's pretty nice for AC then. I can mimic mich of this with magic items. However, if I have an amulet of natural armor, that's a +5 enhancement. Where do I get the other natural armor from based off what you showed the +7 Natural Armor?
I figure by level 12:
+10 base
+5 dex
+6 armor
+5 armor enhancement
+2 shield
+5 shield enhancement
+5 deflection bonus
+5 Natural armor
= 43 AC
@ Louis: wow, that's pretty nice for AC then. I can mimic mich of this with magic items. However, if I have an amulet of natural armor, that's a +5 enhancement. Where 2so I get the other natural armor from based off what you showed the +7 Natural Armor?
Most My AC came from my own spells.
Ironskin gives natural armor up to +7 and immediate cancel of a critical or sneak attack.
Shield of Faith gives Deflection bonus.
Magic Vestment gives bonus to Armor and Shields.
I literally spent my money on 2 lesser extend rod, a extend rod, mithral breastplate and a mithral Heavy Shield. Which costs less than enchanting all your gear. Also leaves open ring and neck slots for better items. My Life Oracle did not attack but still got a GM minor artifact Glaive he created for her. Gave her like 10 rounds of +2 inspire a day, the powers of the love domain and being only usable by her. A gift from Shelyn for her hard works at redeeming people. Never even swung the Glaive.
So I went Ham and had lots of money to throw to RP and group buying.
@Louise: Nice! However is it worth it overall to use those spell known to keep those spells versus spending the money on getting the gear?
@grandlounge: animal companion? The druids you mean? Would I shield other on him? Or have him (druid) shield other on his companion?
If I do eldritch heritage I would gain 1 familiar via arcane bond. Not sure which, but thematically I would think a fox since I'm kitsune. I can make them bodyguard archetype and get in harm's way feat.
I'm staying life oracle so the barkskin would come from somewhere else.
Also Oracle's get a smaller scale of spells than a cleric. I want to make sure I'm not taking up spots for spells that will only benefit me during a combat situation
@Louise: Nice! However is it worth it overall to use those spell known to keep those spells versus spending the money on getting the gear?
Up to you and the group really.
The GM wanted me to play sub par for combat cause I tend to build strongly. I rolled a Shabti spirit guide life Oracle with the child curse for Fun roleplay. I played a pacifist so all my spells were either buff or heal. I could only attack mindless undead. I really done head first into being as much like Shelyn as I could. All skill points went to Sing and Diplomacy. Sweet harmless little girl who preaches love, Skinship, friendship, and arts.
I turned the extra gold into RP, group items, and crafted gifts for friends Players and NPC (free of course). I enjoyed buying flavor items I typically don't get to buy, by saving on all those items. I bought boots of teleport to pair with plane shift and acted as the parties taxi. In the end she became one of my favorite characters I've played from start to finish. Top 2. I would deffinatly do it again in that type of group. But if it was abit higher optimized I would probably not do it. I still dislike dying and changing characters, so an optimized group a reactive healer would get people killed and resources wasted.
I'm staying life oracle so the barkskin would come from somewhere else.
Also Oracle's get a smaller scale of spells than a cleric. I want to make sure I'm not taking up spots for spells that will only benefit me during a combat situation
Ironskin you don't "need" barkskin. Extended Ironskin is glorious.
But if you must have barkskin spirit guide into Nature. It adds it to your list for the day.
Whichever is best between the two. I hope to hit mid teens this time around with the character.
So far I'm only level 2. Kitsune life spirit guide oracle. At 3rd I can use the here that help me out. At 4th I'll either go life spirit or something else to help till I hit 7th.
Whichever is best between the two. I hope to hit mid teens this time around with the character.
So far I'm only level 2. Kitsune life spirit guide oracle. At 3rd I can use the here that help me out. At 4th I'll either go life spirit or something else to help till I hit 7th.
Well Ironskin is personal only. The Barkskin is for others. I just got a page of spell knowledge for ironskin myself.
You can change your spirit daily. I usually bounced between Life, heavens, and slums the most. Double life is nice but to me it felt like overhealing after I got to a certain point.
Which hexes, spells, and revelations did you use from each? Never saw slums before.
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Which hexes, spells, and revelations did you use from each? Never saw slums before.
You get all the spells added to your list for the Spirit you choose.
As for Hexes. I enjoyed using Heavenly Leap from the Heavens Spirit. Bad Penny from the Slums Spirit (grease palms then charm them), Life I used Enhanced Cures.
For my Mystery:
Channel
Life Link
Life Sight
Elemental Body- From Ring of Revelation