Question about drakerider cavaliers.


Pathfinder Society

3/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

I just recently bought Legacy of dragons and I've been reading through it. And I have some questions about how exactly the archetype works, centered around the Drake companion.

Drake

Starting Statistics

Size Tiny; Alignment any nongood; Speed 20 ft.; Attack bite (1d3), tail* (1d3); Ability Scores Str 8, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 7; Languages Draconic.

*This is a secondary natural attack

The Drake gets size increases at levels 5, 9, 13 and 17. If it's starting size is Tiny, then that means a DrakeRIDER cavalier will never be able to ride his Drake during normal games (levels 1-12). There is nothing in drakerider cavalier that indicates this Drake companion gets a larger starting size.

Drake Mount
A drakerider gains a drake companion instead of a mount. She gains cavalier’s charge at 9th level instead of 3rd.

This ability replaces mount, tactician, expert trainer, banner, greater tactician, greater banner, and master tactician and alters cavalier’s charge.

Approved Order: A drakerider can join only an order approved by its mount. Suitable orders include order of the beast, order of the cockatrice, and order of the dragon, as well as other fitting orders at the GM’s discretion.

So there is nothing there that says this companion starts at a different size. But it does mention cavalier's charge at ninth level.

At 3rd level, a cavalier learns to make more accurate charge attacks while mounted. The cavalier receives a +4 bonus on melee attack rolls on a charge while mounted (instead of the normal +2). In addition, the cavalier does not suffer any penalty to his AC after making a charge attack while mounted.

This to me suggests that the archetype expects you to be able to mount by at least ninth level. But that's only doable if you're a small character. So I find myself wondering if the archetype intended the companion to be of typical mountable size for it's rider and just forgot to mention it? Or is it really as bad as it sounds?

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Well, a few things.

One is that "normal" PFS play goes to Level 15 now, with several scenarios being Tier 14-15. And with tons of sanctioned Modules and APs at even higher Tiers it's possible to get a few characters as high as 20.

Second is that many Pathfinder options simply aren't constructed with PFS in mind, since the vast majority of players game at home. If the starting size was an issue there, a home GM can change it.

Lastly, a small Cavalier can ride it at 5th, and a medium Cavalier can ride it at 9th (both assuming that the Undersized Mount feat is being utilized, and the Drake's Strength is being boosted). That strikes me as reasonable, since flight is a very powerful game option.

So... I don't see anything wrong.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Play a small size cavalier with the undersized mount feat.

3/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

What scenarios go to 14-15? Everything I have ever played except for eyes of the ten is level 12 or lower. I'm also aware that not all player companion options are for PFS, as that was basically the root of my question: is there accommodation for PFS characters or is this one of those archetypes that just doesn't work.

I also feel I should mention that the Drake doesn't automatically have flight. It has to acquire a number of Drake powers to gain access to flight, and those powers are reduced by one step when carrying a mount. So most of the time, until you get much higher level, and only if you forsake other Drake powers such as breath weapons, or other forms of improved movement,your Drake can, at best, glide when you're mounted.

Also, not interested in playing a small character with this archetype.


Claxon wrote:
Play a small size cavalier with the undersized mount feat.

Mount: The drake deigns to allow its charge to ride it, as long as she is at least one size category smaller than the drake. While carrying a rider, the drake can’t burrow and it loses the benefits of the highest-level drake power it has from the following list (ordered from highest-level to lowest-level): greater flight, improved flight, flight, or glide. To select mount, a drake must have glide and its charge must be at least 7th level.

The Drake doesn't care about your feat, it won't allow you to ride- you take no penalty, but the drake won't allow it.

1/5 Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

undersized mount doesn't work. The issue is drake won't let you ride them, not that they aren't suitable mounts. Thus you can't get early access to a flying mount.

drakes wrote:

Mount: The drake deigns to allow its charge to ride it,

as long as she is at least one size category smaller than the
drake. While carrying a rider, the drake can’t burrow and
it loses the benefits of the highest-level drake power it
has from the following list (ordered from highest-level to
lowest-level): greater flight, improved flight, flight, or glide.
To select mount, a drake must have glide and its charge
must be at least 7th level.

1/5 Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

SO yeah, this archetype is bad unless you're playing super high levels, and getting there is quite painful. So best for home games or whatnot that lets you start off already being good without needing to suffer for many levels.


The drakes are terrible, all of thier abilties coming online too late, while you give up countless abilties to get them, you can't replace them, and it's just plain better to give up your mount, and take a few feats to get a roc companion.

You can force them to work if you work at it, but it takes a lot of work.

I made a thread on forcing them to work, a while ago.

But even then, animal companions are usually just plain better, from start to finish.

3/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

The only exception to that mount power is greater mount, which allows anyone to mount your Drake as long as you have good standing with it, and it no longer gets it's highest flight power negated. However you can't take that one until level 11, and it has glide and mount as prerequesites, and it only gets 3 Drake powers by level 11. So at level eleven, at best you have a gliding mount. That you can't ride if you're any bigger than small.

3/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Agent, Virginia—Portsmouth aka Pogiforce

So a bad choice then. Disappointing, but better to find out now in character creation than several levels down the road.

1/5 Venture-Agent, Utah—Provo aka Chess Pwn

Sean Castor wrote:
The only exception to that mount power is greater mount, which allows anyone to mount your Drake as long as you have good standing with it, and it no longer gets it's highest flight power negated. However you can't take that one until level 11, and it has glide and mount as prerequesites, and it only gets 3 Drake powers by level 11. So at level eleven, at best you have a gliding mount. That you can't ride if you're any bigger than small.

To be clear it still requires the rider to be one size smaller.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

Sean Castor wrote:
What scenarios go to 14-15?

4-00

5-00
7-20
7-26
7-29
8-25

Additionally the following modules are playable at either level 14/15 (or both)

Academy of Secrets
Tomb of the Iron Medusa
The Moonscar
Wardens of the Reborn Forge p1
Wardens of the Reborn Forge p2
Wardens of the Reborn Forge p3
(Special PFS capstone rules for wardens as well)
Emerald Spire p 16
Feast of Dust p1
Feast of Dust p2
Feast of Dust p3

I also count 19 AP legs that include either level 14 or 15 (or both)

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

^ thank you, beat me to it.

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Question about drakerider cavaliers. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Pathfinder Society