I haven't played Pathfinder in about 2 years but every now and then I'll take a look at some of the new books that come out. What are some of the more powerful builds out there now?
I figure Zen Archer Monk and the pounce barbarian are still near the top. I'm looking for some more ideas for a few builds so I don't know what's the hype right now, especially with all the supplements and books that have been out.
Any help and assistance would be greatly appreciated.
In this particular campaign we rarely get past level 12. I'm figuring by level 16 it'll finish at the latest. I've done the Zen Archer and the pouncing barbarian so I've done the ranged and melee beast builds.
I had a few different ideas for builds.
1. A reach weapon ranger w/Horizon Walker
2. A warpriest switch hitter
3. A rock thrower
4. Favored enemy/terrain specialist ranger
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Well, the best AOO build I can think of is a mounted half-elf reach hunter, using teamwork feats and high crit ranges to get upwards of 12 AOO's out of one AOO. All this combined with the fact that hunter has access to a bunch of stuff that boosts AOO's (Like paired oppurtunist, snake animal focus and outflank+pack flanking) means that most of those attacks will be hitting at around +25.
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1. Decent but not feat-rich so it'd take a while to take off.
2. Doable.
3. You mean a stone oracle with rock throwing, a psychic telekinesis specialist, or a barbarian taking the hurling feats? Any of these is OK but I wouldn't call them the most powerful builds.
4. Bad idea IMO. It's so frustrating when they don't apply, and finishing at 12 you're not going to have instant enemy for most of the game.
Are you asking about other builds which would do similar things?
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1. Decent but not feat-rich so it'd take a while to take off.
2. Doable.
3. You mean a stone oracle with rock throwing, a psychic telekinesis specialist, or a barbarian taking the hurling feats? Any of these is OK but I wouldn't call them the most powerful builds.
4. Bad idea IMO. It's so frustrating when they don't apply, and finishing at 12 you're not going to have instant enemy for most of the game.Are you asking about other builds which would do similar things?
1. I saw some good reach builds but wasn't sure how to tackle it if they get within my reach.
3. The stone Oracle. I had made a rough build of it years back that allowed yhe rocks sinve they were fragile to have interesting effects.4. There was a horizon walker/instant enemy build that allowed me to get my fav. Enemy most of the time and to give allies. I'm wondering if it's still viable.
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YO.
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YO.
Lol.
I've already done a pounce CAGM spell sunder barbarian. Twice. I would like to do another one if there was anything new to change about him in recent years. Anything good?
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The horizon walker dimension doors away if people gets too close, or uses armor spikes or a natural attack depending on build.
Possibly the splintering weapon feat. Disposable weapon allows you to auto-confirm crits but it's not worth it on a 20/x2 weapon. The magic boulder spell may be new to you.
Instant enemy is a spell that a ranger doesn't get before class level 10. You can get items of it RAW, but it's less valuable when it takes a standard action to cast.
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Schrodinger's Fighter is a thing.
Most of the components are already covered in the guide:
human (or bastard, required for feat access)
lvl 1:[feat]; [bonus feat]; [bonus combat feat]; Combat Stamina
lvl 2:(Improved Bravery?); Bravery
lvl 3:[bonus combat feat]; Armor Training 1
lvl 4: Barroom Brawler
lvl 5: [feat that definitely isn't Advanced Weapon Training]; Weapon Training 1
lvl 6: [bonus combat feat]
lvl 7: [feat]; Armor Training 2/Advanced Armor Training
lvl 8: [bonus combat feat]
lvl 9: [feat]; Advanced Weapon Training: Abundant Tactics (choose Barroom Brawler
lvl 10: Quick Study (sidebar- here it is appropriate to start taking the feat Advanced Weapon Training for other options, unless you wanted to take it earlier and retrain out of it at 8th for free instead of paying for it here.)
lvl 11: [feat]; Armor Training 3/Advanced Armor Training
lvl 12: [bonus combat feat]; (retrain old feat to Advanced Weapon Training if you don;t want to pay for it)
lvl 13: [feat]; Advanced Weapon Training
The only items that you really need are the Gloves of Dueling and the Manual of War.
This is obviously just a skeleton build designed to make you versatile, there's a ton of new options and mix-matching with various VMCs can create insane characters.
YO.Lol.
I've already done a pounce CAGM spell sunder barbarian. Twice. I would like to do another one if there was anything new to change about him in recent years. Anything good?
Ever try to play the Bloodrager version? You sound less brain damaged and have magic to play with.
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Schrodinger's Fighter is a thing.
Most of the components are already covered in the guide:
human (or bastard, required for feat access)
lvl 1:[feat]; [bonus feat]; [bonus combat feat]; Combat Stamina
lvl 2:(Improved Bravery?); Bravery
lvl 3:[bonus combat feat]; Armor Training 1
lvl 4: Barroom Brawler
lvl 5: [feat that definitely isn't Advanced Weapon Training]; Weapon Training 1
lvl 6: [bonus combat feat]
lvl 7: [feat]; Armor Training 2/Advanced Armor Training
lvl 8: [bonus combat feat]
lvl 9: [feat]; Advanced Weapon Training: Abundant Tactics (choose Barroom Brawler
lvl 10: Quick Study (sidebar- here it is appropriate to start taking the feat Advanced Weapon Training for other options, unless you wanted to take it earlier and retrain out of it at 8th for free instead of paying for it here.)
lvl 11: [feat]; Armor Training 3/Advanced Armor Training
lvl 12: [bonus combat feat]; (retrain old feat to Advanced Weapon Training if you don;t want to pay for it)
lvl 13: [feat]; Advanced Weapon TrainingThe only items that you really need are the Gloves of Dueling and the Manual of War.
This is obviously just a skeleton build designed to make you versatile, there's a ton of new options and mix-matching with various VMCs can create insane characters.
This seems like a very interesting build. I only saw the guide for fighters. Is there a guide to how the build works? I assume it's strong in most weapon styles. Looking at reach.
Was just taking it apart myself. I think the goal of the build is to allow you to have the brawler's flexibility in picking a feat when in a pinch (couldnt find combat stamina though)
Combat Stamina is from Pathfinder Unchained. You want Armed Bravery as well (bravery to ALL Will Saves) and you can take that at lvl 5 when you get your first weapon group.
Also, the Warpriest with Daggers would be doing there sacred damage with daggers (so d6 at lvl one). You can do a similar build but with kukris and crit fish, but loss the weapon versatility that daggers have.
It's seems like an interesting build so long as you know what combat feats you might want to gain temporarily from the feats. I'm not sure what I would take if I did a reach build for instance.
Warpriest is not bad but now that I think on it I'm not sure it would be great.
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For marshmallows fighter to work your DM has to use the stamina system. Worth considering.
You mentioned Zen archers, you might be interested to look at inquisitors and war priests for archery, a recent thread found that by level 10 they had a quite considerable lead in terms of damage and accuracy over other classes in archery.
War priests with Pharasma's obideince can make interesting thrown dagger users I believe. Add in the startoss line and you can basically AOE with thrown weapons now.
You also mentioned reach, it takes a while to get to reach but a Kineticts might be worth considering.
They by level 11 have a free reach weapon that also functions from within your reach and have scaling damage dice with scaling damage bonuses and con to damage. They also can have at will flight options and ranged options for when things sit outside reach. And can choose for a for a damage decrease, to have everything hit touch.
Going water/earth you end up with at will air walk, higher DR than an invulnerable rager and really high ac
Going Telekineticist earth you end up with the same Dr and a regenerating pool of temp hit points and pseudo flight. I really think tanky reach Kineticts could be pretty good from mid to high levels and more versatile than most martial classes.
Ever try to play the Bloodrager version? You sound less brain damaged and have magic to play with.YO.Lol.
I've already done a pounce CAGM spell sunder barbarian. Twice. I would like to do another one if there was anything new to change about him in recent years. Anything good?
Arcane bloodrager is great fun. Hit like a barbarian and buff yourself with haste, mirror image, blur, etc, Good melee offense and layered defense.
Tiefling(For favored class bonus) Paladin with Fey Foundling, Oath of Vengenance and lots of Extra LoH feats.
I haven't played Pathfinder in about 2 years but every now and then I'll take a look at some of the new books that come out. What are some of the more powerful builds out there now?
I figure Zen Archer Monk and the pounce barbarian are still near the top. I'm looking for some more ideas for a few builds so I don't know what's the hype right now, especially with all the supplements and books that have been out.
Any help and assistance would be greatly appreciated.
It's more about the player than anything else.
Most classes can break the game if a skilled enough player puts the effort into it.
For marshmallows fighter to work your DM has to use the stamina system. Worth considering.
You mentioned Zen archers, you might be interested to look at inquisitors and war priests for archery, a recent thread found that by level 10 they had a quite considerable lead in terms of damage and accuracy over other classes in archery.
War priests with Pharasma's obideince can make interesting thrown dagger users I believe. Add in the startoss line and you can basically AOE with thrown weapons now.
Do you happen to know the thread for the inquisitor and war priest archer?
I typically like playing archers but my dm has said he would prefer me not to play one this time around since I normally play them. Our group is pretty optimized in what they do, even if the character isn't an optimized option.
I tend to play powerful builds to help out the party wherever their lacking. Zen Archer when I was the only real ranged character, CAGM barbarian for when we needed another tank of sorts, trickshot archer fighter to help with maneuvers, etc.
I am partially interested in a bard buffer but not sure how to optimize him.
However, I've always been partial to the Horizon Walker, but I know it's not wonderful and I'm not sure how big a part terrain will come in.
Also, I've looked at evangelist PrC and I like what they get. Is there a good build with those? Zen archer/inquisitor/war priest?
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Do you happen to know the thread for the inquisitor and war priest archer?I typically like playing archers but my dm has said he would prefer me not to play one this time around since I normally play them. Our group is pretty optimized in what they do, even if the character isn't an optimized option.
I tend to play powerful builds to help out the party wherever their lacking. Zen Archer when I was the only real ranged character, CAGM barbarian for when we needed another tank of sorts, trickshot archer fighter to help with maneuvers, etc.
I am partially interested in a bard buffer but not sure how to optimize him.
However, I've always been partial to the Horizon Walker, but I know it's not wonderful and I'm not sure how big a part terrain will come in.
Also, I've looked at evangelist PrC and I like what they get. Is there a good build with those? Zen archer/inquisitor/war priest?
If your DM wants you to shy away from an archer and he is already dealing with an optimized group then I say help him out.
Your interested in a buffer Bard. Then we can deffinatly help you out there.
I personally like the Reach bard with 4 levels of Dragon disciple for a STR boost, Natural armor, Bite/Claws, Feats, D12 HD. You can recover the lost levels of bardic performance with a Banner of the Ancient Kings attached to your Longspear. Bard 7/Dragon Disciple 4/X is a very reliable and strong build. Feats look like: Flagbearer, Combat Reflexes (For AoOs), Improved Initative (to go first), Power attack (For damage..bloodline feat from D.D.) and anything else you want to throw in there.
You will have great buffs and can do some really decent damage with your Spear using your turns to buff while getting in AoOs when they come. You only need a 13 Str to start...bump to a 14 then D.D turns it into 18 naturally. So point buy is easy to work around.
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I agree that you should stay away due to GM requests but here's the info to look at. link
This is the DPR comparisons, look at earlier posts to find the builds used.
Well by optimized for the group what I mean is they will pick some sort of idea or theme and go with whatever funky class works best for it. One of our players is going to be some hippie type healer who will even heal the enemy, another is going to be some pure vanilla fighter with a pitchfork or a sword even, but later with the sword. Another was going to be a TWF ranger and didn't care which type of weapon he used. So not the best builds, but we help each other out with suggestions, ideas, and item/spells to really amp up their characters. Some of us though tend to visit the boards here, look up optimized builds, and also the faq or errata whenever we can to help out the group. I'm typically one of those people so when I play archers it's never just for damage.
So my main build ideas now are:
1. The buff bard (need to see if the group need a it or if someone else is playing another buffer of sorts.
2. The stamina reach fighter.
3. The oracle/fighter rock thrower (if I can talk to my dm about race).
4. Evangelist. But with which base class?
An evangelist gives 6 base skill points, some class abilities related to skills, 3/4 BAB and earlier access (but not early in absolute terms) to divine boons. It's probably best with a character who wants more skills and has at most 3/4 BAB.
As to who that might be - perhaps a sorcerer or wizard who wants to use illusions and polymorphs for disguise but who can't afford all the social skills. Or a magus similarly. Perhaps a cleric who wants to branch out. A summoner could probably get an unexpected trick or two this way.
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There are over a hundred powerful builds in Ravingdork's Crazy Character Emporium. Be sure to use the master link shown near the bottom of the first post, as many of the other links are no longer functional. Also, if you like what you see, please be sure to leave some comments and favorite the first post.
I spoke to my DM. He says I can create the race to about 12 or 13 Race points. As for the character we agreed upon the buff bard, because the group could use it, but they don't have any large ranged character or a dedicated healer. I'll try to figure out a solution to those 2 issues. Thanks for all your help. I'll make a separate thread for the bard now.
The group doesn't have a ranged character but he wants you to not play an archer? Or is he just wanting to avoid specific types of ranged characters?
I spoke to my DM. He says I can create the race to about 12 or 13 Race points. As for the character we agreed upon the buff bard, because the group could use it, but they don't have any large ranged character or a dedicated healer. I'll try to figure out a solution to those 2 issues. Thanks for all your help. I'll make a separate thread for the bard now.
Well, there is the Evangelist Cleric who performs like a bard but is a full Caster Cleric which would fix the hole of a healer on hand.
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I'm fond of the Double Life Kitsune (for Wrecking Mysticism) Spirit Guide Oracle as a thing that is just absurdly efficient at what it does.
Be a Kitsune Oracle with the Spirit Guide archetype with the Life Mystery, take the Wrecking Mysticism curse, trade away all your bonus spells for tails, take Channel as your 1st level revelation, bond with the life spirit, get all your mystery spells back at 4th level, gain a second full strength channel pool at 7th level. Nothing near you will die (unless undead) and in addition to your ~14 uses of channel energy, you're also a CHA based full caster and you're free to use your feats however you like.
@Darkbridger- we have a bomb thrower that's it. We also have a fighter finesse, a paladin smighter, a druid, a melee ranger, and one other. He preferred me in particular to not play an archer but I think in this case we need one or at least a long ranged character. Like a thrower even. I'll make the buffing bars but I'll also make an archer of some sort. He said there are 3 people playing possible secondary healers, but only 2 will actually do it if needed.
@Louise- sounds interesting. I'll have to take a look at it.
@possiblecabbage- wow. That does seem cool. No clue what i would use the feats for then. I'm not sure I'll get away with the kitsune but maybe. Do you happen to have build layer out for it by any chance so I can quickly send it as a rough copy to my DM for his approval?
I'm fond of the Double Life Kitsune (for Wrecking Mysticism) Spirit Guide Oracle as a thing that is just absurdly efficient at what it does.
Be a Kitsune Oracle with the Spirit Guide archetype with the Life Mystery, take the Wrecking Mysticism curse, trade away all your bonus spells for tails, take Channel as your 1st level revelation, bond with the life spirit, get all your mystery spells back at 4th level, gain a second full strength channel pool at 7th level. Nothing near you will die (unless undead) and in addition to your ~14 uses of channel energy, you're also a CHA based full caster and you're free to use your feats however you like.
This will be going into my character gallery in the very near future.
Nice build but I do have a few questions.
1. Do the 2 sources of channel stack? I thought they don't.
2. how do they get back all the mystery spells? I seemed to have missed that part.
3. Is the only advantage of being kitsune is to gain the Spell-like abilities you get from the tails effectively for free? If so, would it be better to go another race?
^I don't know the answer for #2, but for #3, Kitsune also gets +2 to Charisma, and getting all those spell-like abilities is pretty good, even if not 100% of them are good. For #1, the 2 sources of Channel don't stack with respect to DC or Channel dice, but they do stack with respect to number of uses per day, including getting your Charisma modifier to boost each number of available Channels, so you have a LOT of them per day. You could even go VMC Cleric to get yet another pool, but this is rather bad, because not only does it eat 5 feats and give you a Cleric/Oracle Cantrip in exchange for 1 of them, but it also wastes some of them on slowly bringing the extra Channel pool up to speed from a start 6 levels behind.
Fighter 1 wizard 19. You get the powerful start of a martial and your spell levels are only delayed by 1 level (which is basically sorcerer progression). The lost CL can be made up with a trait and you only lose 1 level of FCB. Start with archery (maybe melee) and slowly evolve into a spellslinging monster.
most powerful is highly subjective to several things mostly being stat generation
And proximity to AM BARBARIAN.
I'm fond of the Double Life Kitsune (for Wrecking Mysticism) Spirit Guide Oracle as a thing that is just absurdly efficient at what it does.
Be a Kitsune Oracle with the Spirit Guide archetype with the Life Mystery, take the Wrecking Mysticism curse, trade away all your bonus spells for tails, take Channel as your 1st level revelation, bond with the life spirit, get all your mystery spells back at 4th level, gain a second full strength channel pool at 7th level. Nothing near you will die (unless undead) and in addition to your ~14 uses of channel energy, you're also a CHA based full caster and you're free to use your feats however you like.
Could one be a scion of humanity aasimar, who then takes Racial Heritage (Kitsune), and gain access to the funky throw bad guys around with channels feats? With an agathion-blooded aasimar, the fox tails would even be thematic.
^I don't know the answer for #2, but for #3, Kitsune also gets +2 to Charisma, and getting all those spell-like abilities is pretty good, even if not 100% of them are good. For #1, the 2 sources of Channel don't stack with respect to DC or Channel dice, but they do stack with respect to number of uses per day, including getting your Charisma modifier to boost each number of available Channels, so you have a LOT of them per day. You could even go VMC Cleric to get yet another pool, but this is rather bad, because not only does it eat 5 feats and give you a Cleric/Oracle Cantrip in exchange for 1 of them, but it also wastes some of them on slowly bringing the extra Channel pool up to speed from a start 6 levels behind.
They get the mystery spells back because Spirit Guide archetype grants the spirit spells as bonus spells known and the life spirit and life mystery have identical lists.
So if you don't do something to give up the mystery spells, it's a redundant class feature, hence the kutsune with nine tails.
Whoa, I hadn't noticed that Spirit Guide DOESN'T replace Oracle Mystery spells -- so effectively, starting at level 4, a Spirit Guide Oracle who doesn't replace Mystery Spells with something else has 2 Mystery Spells per spell level (except when the Mystery spells and Spirit spells are the same).
By the way, if you have 2 Channel Energy class features, you could choose Standard Channeling on one of them and Variant Channeling on the other, or 2 types of Variant Channeling.
Well, the best AOO build I can think of is a mounted half-elf reach hunter, using teamwork feats and high crit ranges to get upwards of 12 AOO's out of one AOO. All this combined with the fact that hunter has access to a bunch of stuff that boosts AOO's (Like paired oppurtunist, snake animal focus and outflank+pack flanking) means that most of those attacks will be hitting at around +25.
Sorry for the necro thread, but can I please see this AOO build?
I too am intersted in this AOO build.
I'm fond of the Double Life Kitsune (for Wrecking Mysticism) Spirit Guide Oracle as a thing that is just absurdly efficient at what it does.
Be a Kitsune Oracle with the Spirit Guide archetype with the Life Mystery, take the Wrecking Mysticism curse, trade away all your bonus spells for tails, take Channel as your 1st level revelation, bond with the life spirit, get all your mystery spells back at 4th level, gain a second full strength channel pool at 7th level. Nothing near you will die (unless undead) and in addition to your ~14 uses of channel energy, you're also a CHA based full caster and you're free to use your feats however you like.
SO wrecking Mysticism says you never get the spells back even if from an archetype or any other source. Also no sources of channeling stack unless it says so. So ya will have zero bonus spells and one source of channeling. To get multiple sources of channeling ya need sources like from the cold iron archetype for inquisitor.
I just posted a DPR calc of an amazing Slayer build I'm playing atm. It's a Cleave-based Slayer with a customized 5-10ft spring-loaded weapon, and if 3-5 targets are in range, dem mooks are frookered mooks.
And it's a stealthy McStabberton style build. You can hide all day and attack when you want to :)
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If you are looking for a ranged blaster that is not an archer, give the various flavors of Kineticist a look. Some, like Fire, get ranged touch attacks. Some have greater utility and/or defenses. Look at one of the Kineticist guides for more details.
I am sure that Ravingdork has a couple of sample builds in his compendium.