How Broken Are Drugs?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


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I don't just mean in terms of amazing effects with little to no drawbacks -coughspellscough- but also in terms of the rules that govern them.

How easy is it to become addicted to something? Does it take only one hit and a bad save and you're hooked for life? Can you be a drug fiend using every day for a year and stay squeaky clean?

I've tried giving the drugs page on the pfsrd a read through but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it and would prefer to hear others experience with drugs or even just theorycrafting.


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Use any drug daily for a week and the odds are that you will end up addicted. And then you have all these penalties that will likely kill you inside a month. There can be no long term junkies with the rules in PF.

Silver Crusade

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also that is with pure mechanics. There are also social problems like them being illegal.


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Go to Aether and orange ioun stone at high levels with smart precautions. Wisest addiction ever, but be paranoid of GM intervention. Be a smart wizard. Learn to cover your addiction to +1 caster level. But this only works at high levels or the caster level check to cast your spells is not worth it. But I can think of builds where this would be the perfect drug (and easy enough to avoid long term addiction).


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Paladins are immune to addiction, but you still need to be pretty careful.


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AM BARBARIAN will tell you about allnight for fighting fatigue.


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Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Go to Aether and orange ioun stone at high levels with smart precautions. Wisest addiction ever, but be paranoid of GM intervention. Be a smart wizard. Learn to cover your addiction to +1 caster level. But this only works at high levels or the caster level check to cast your spells is not worth it. But I can think of builds where this would be the perfect drug (and easy enough to avoid long term addiction).

Angel's Trumpet is also pretty decent. It can outright shut down some nasty mind affecting spells and effects. The short-medium term downsides are pretty heavy, but as a silver bullet versus mind control it is amazing. The other bonuses are gravy (who doesn't love +2 to initiative and some skill bonuses on top of soft countering all compulsion and fear effects). Just remember to keep some lesser restoration potions around to remove the wisdom damage.


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If you are hasted 30 minutes after taking or immune to slow effect:
Blood Sap (Rival Guide): Extracted from swamp roots this potent red syrup can energize warriors for short bursts. For 30 minutes users gain a +1d4 strength bonus and +1d3 dexterity bonus, but then they're slowed (as the spell) for 3 hours. It also does 1d4 constitution damage. 150 gp

Slight chance to be a ghoul, but:
Mumia (Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Lost Kingdoms): In case the name didn't give it away, Mumia is made from the flesh of mummified corpses. Those who can overcome their distaste for the drug's base components will be able to cast all spells at +1 caster level, and will gain +1d8 of temporary hit points along with a +2 alchemical bonus to saves against spells and effects that have the curse or disease descriptor. Mumia also renders users fatigued for 1 hour. The drug does 1d2 wisdom damage, but for every week one remains addicted there's a cumulative +5% chance that he or she will become a ghoul. Use at your own peril.

Take Mumia and Aether for +2 caster?

For battle:
Wyrm Keif (Pathfinder Player Companion: Dragonslayer's Handbook): Introducing a vial of dragon's blood to keif as it's being concocted creates a very different beast. For 1 hour it provides 25 temporary hit points, and for 1 day it provides a +2 alchemical bonus on saves against sleep and paralysis. It also does 1d2 wisdom damage.

For a Str bonus:
Zerk (Gamemastery Guide): This unusually named drug provides a +1 bonus to initiative for 1 hour. Addicts will also receive a +1d4 bonus to their strength. Zerk does 1d2 constitution damage


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

My psychic can use his daily class abilities from the Self-Perfection psychic discipline to remove nearly all of the negative effects of drugs and addictions while still keeping the benefits.


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I ran a RotRL campaign where a character got addicted to a drug at second level and didn't manage to make the saving throws to shake it off until 6th. So, he spent most of 4 levels or so suffering from the addiction penalties because he didn't want to spend the money on feeding the habit.


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Snowblind wrote:


Angel's Trumpet is also pretty decent. It can outright shut down some nasty mind affecting spells and effects. The short-medium term downsides are pretty heavy, but as a silver bullet versus mind control it is amazing. The other bonuses are gravy (who doesn't love +2 to initiative and some skill bonuses on top of soft countering all compulsion and fear effects). Just remember to keep some lesser restoration potions around to remove the wisdom damage.

Angel's Trumpet sounds awful, there are plenty of lesser fear and compulsion effects that are less bad than being dazed!

Scenario 1:

GM: "You fail your save against the Aura of Doom spell, you are Shaken until you can leave leave the radius."

Smug PC: "Not so fast, I'm on Angel's Trumpet, so I'm not shaken."

GM: "Oops, I missed that. Congrats, you're dazed until he moves away from you or the 10 minutes/level duration runs out. Good luck."

Scenario 2:

GM: "You fail your save against Fumbletongue."

Confused Barbarian PC: "What does that do?"

GM: "Well normally it would make it hard for you to talk or say command words, but since you're on Angel's Trumpet to protect against a Dominate Person, you stand dazed for 5 rounds. Good luck."


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Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Snowblind wrote:
Angel's Trumpet is also pretty decent. ...

Angel's Trumpet sounds awful, there are plenty of lesser fear and compulsion effects that are less bad than being dazed!

...

Wouldn't the daze only last 1 round per spell level (or 1d4 for effects with no spell level)? The aura of doom would be 4 rounds and fumbletongue would be 1, right? Otherwise, what you pointed out could be correct, being dazed could be worse than the effect you avoided.


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Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
AM BARBARIAN will tell you about allnight for fighting fatigue.

WELL NOT ANYMORE. IGNITER AM ALREADY TAKING CARE OF THAT FOR BARBARIAN.

ADDICTION TO ALLNIGHT AM TOTALLY AWESOME, THOUGH, FOR RECORD.


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AM BARBARIAN wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
AM BARBARIAN will tell you about allnight for fighting fatigue.

WELL NOT ANYMORE. IGNITER AM ALREADY TAKING CARE OF THAT FOR BARBARIAN.

ADDICTION TO ALLNIGHT AM TOTALLY AWESOME, THOUGH, FOR RECORD.

Especially for a human with heart of the fields.


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Avoron wrote:
AM BARBARIAN wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
AM BARBARIAN will tell you about allnight for fighting fatigue.

WELL NOT ANYMORE. IGNITER AM ALREADY TAKING CARE OF THAT FOR BARBARIAN.

ADDICTION TO ALLNIGHT AM TOTALLY AWESOME, THOUGH, FOR RECORD.

Especially for a human with heart of the fields.

EIGHT HOURS, THEN HEART, THEN EIGHT MORE HOURS, THEN SLEEP OFF EXHAUSTION.

AM TRULY GREATEST MANNER OF BEING ALL DAY HATE MACHINE, THOUGH THIS AM ADMITTEDLY OVERKILL UNLESS AM BUILT FOR LITERALLY RAGING ALL DAY.


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strange fluids is both the best and the worst drug in pathfinder, you can get any were from being disintegrated to going into a coma for a day and gaining a level


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AM BARBARIAN wrote:

EIGHT HOURS, THEN HEART, THEN EIGHT MORE HOURS, THEN SLEEP OFF EXHAUSTION.

AM TRULY GREATEST MANNER OF BEING ALL DAY HATE MACHINE, THOUGH THIS AM ADMITTEDLY OVERKILL UNLESS AM BUILT FOR LITERALLY RAGING ALL DAY.

If you're built for literally raging all day, you don't need to get rid of fatigue.


RAGE CYCLING AM IMPORTANT PART OF ANY BARBARIAN PAST LEVEL 6 OR SO, ALLNIGHT AM BEST WAY FOR DOING THIS PRIOR TO LEVEL 17.

EVEN IF CAN RAGE ALL DAY, AM NEEDING TO STOP AND START AS DUAL FREE ACTION FOR REFRESHING 1/RAGE BONUSES.


AM BARBARIAN wrote:

RAGE CYCLING AM IMPORTANT PART OF ANY BARBARIAN PAST LEVEL 6 OR SO, ALLNIGHT AM BEST WAY FOR DOING THIS PRIOR TO LEVEL 17.

EVEN IF CAN RAGE ALL DAY, AM NEEDING TO STOP AND START AS DUAL FREE ACTION FOR REFRESHING 1/RAGE BONUSES.

I like taking a level of oracle at 9th. Metal mystery, dance of blades. Lame curse.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This is why I just say no to drugs in my campaign.

Shadow Lodge

Any way to make them into injury poisons? There's some with less potent buffs and more severe drawbacks that I wouldn't mind applying to enemies. And they're a lot cheaper than actual poisons.


thistledown wrote:
Any way to make them into injury poisons? There's some with less potent buffs and more severe drawbacks that I wouldn't mind applying to enemies. And they're a lot cheaper than actual poisons.

Mahathallah has a Deification Obedience option for the Evangelist, but it's the third boon and therefore late career.


There is a syringe listed somewhere. Inject the drug?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Starbuck_II wrote:
There is a syringe listed somewhere. Inject the drug?

This?

A mad scientist vanara in a campaign I played in awhile ago found one of those and kept using it to dose people with stuff. It was great.


I can't find drugs in the core rulebook.


Goth Guru wrote:
I can't find drugs in the core rulebook.

Of course not, your avatar looks like a narc.


I can't remember if this is a thing in the rules.
Do the rules have anything to handle like the standard rip offs? I seem to remember something about the sales going violent in Black Market, that isn't what I mean though.

I am talking about adulterated, weak or useless drugs or more important, tainted, toxic or otherwise bad batches. Misidentified stuff? Drugs are going to be high risk in more than just addictions and the listed save or ... Stuff. Also, any number of social risks, but that has been brought up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:
I can't find drugs in the core rulebook.
Of course not, your avatar looks like a narc.

Drugs and drug rules are in the GameMastery Guide.


Drug deals gone wrong.
1: Laced with barbarian chew. Attack nearest anything.
2: Pure caffeine. Act like your drugged but actually stay awake for 1-4 days.
3: Contains belladonna. Save vs the poison.
4: Real angel dust makes you will save or shift towards lawful good.
5: Wrong mushrooms. Have a vision, puke 1-4 rounds, then become fatigued for 1-6 hours.
6: Paranoid. Run away from everyone at top speed for 1D20 rounds. Think everyone you meet wants to turn you in for drug use for 1D6 hours.


Lady-J wrote:
strange fluids is both the best and the worst drug in pathfinder, you can get any were from being disintegrated to going into a coma for a day and gaining a level

Strange fluids has terrible downsides and its best upsides only occur 1/100, and even then the real best effects are about 2/5th of that 1/100.

Not worth the risk I'd think.


Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
strange fluids is both the best and the worst drug in pathfinder, you can get any were from being disintegrated to going into a coma for a day and gaining a level

Strange fluids has terrible downsides and its best upsides only occur 1/100, and even then the real best effects are about 2/5th of that 1/100.

Not worth the risk I'd think.

which is why i said it is equally the best and the worst at the same time


Lady-J wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
strange fluids is both the best and the worst drug in pathfinder, you can get any were from being disintegrated to going into a coma for a day and gaining a level

Strange fluids has terrible downsides and its best upsides only occur 1/100, and even then the real best effects are about 2/5th of that 1/100.

Not worth the risk I'd think.

which is why i said it is equally the best and the worst at the same time

Or you cheat with Flash of Insight.


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Azten wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
strange fluids is both the best and the worst drug in pathfinder, you can get any were from being disintegrated to going into a coma for a day and gaining a level

Strange fluids has terrible downsides and its best upsides only occur 1/100, and even then the real best effects are about 2/5th of that 1/100.

Not worth the risk I'd think.

which is why i said it is equally the best and the worst at the same time
Or you cheat with Flash of Insight.

The way the full strange fluids rules are written up the effect is actually testable (with 75% accuracy) with a Craft (Alchemy) DC 25 check before you drink it, so while they do shift effects periodically (about once per hour) they have a semi-fixed effect before you drink. So Flash of Insight doesn't work, the GM should roll for what it will do before it actually hits your system.

So the best way to do it is run a Craft (Alchemy) check every hour until you get the result you want. Then you've got a 75% chance of being right, a 25% chance of rolling randomly to discover it switched to something new between your test and your effective consumption.


Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Azten wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
strange fluids is both the best and the worst drug in pathfinder, you can get any were from being disintegrated to going into a coma for a day and gaining a level

Strange fluids has terrible downsides and its best upsides only occur 1/100, and even then the real best effects are about 2/5th of that 1/100.

Not worth the risk I'd think.

which is why i said it is equally the best and the worst at the same time
Or you cheat with Flash of Insight.

The way the full strange fluids rules are written up the effect is actually testable (with 75% accuracy) with a Craft (Alchemy) DC 25 check before you drink it, so while they do shift effects periodically (about once per hour) they have a semi-fixed effect before you drink. So Flash of Insight doesn't work, the GM should roll for what it will do before it actually hits your system.

So the best way to do it is run a Craft (Alchemy) check every hour until you get the result you want. Then you've got a 75% chance of being right, a 25% chance of rolling randomly to discover it switched to something new between your test and your effective consumption.

would rolling drastically higher than 25 on the check give you a better shot at getting the effect you want?


Looking at the rules it seems like that is a variant rule and since you still need to roll to get the result, Flash of Insight applies.


Azten wrote:
Looking at the rules it seems like that is a variant rule and since you still need to roll to get the result, Flash of Insight applies.

The player rolls a Craft check to see if he can identify it. The GM rolls to determine what it actually is. No flash of insight.

It's the equivalent of using Spellcraft to identify treasure chosen off a random magical item table. You could use flash of insight on the Spellcraft roll, but not the random treasure roll.


Keif seems like an okay power component for enchanters. Being forced to use it as an additional spell component for the Safir-Afiyun feat makes it pretty annoying, but 15 GP doesn't seem like too bad of a price to pay.

Also, does Safir-Afiyun's ability damage reduction apply to other forms of Keif? Because having to pay only 1 point of wisdom with Wyrm Keif or choosing which stat takes one hit with Golden Keif would be very nice.

Also also, can you use the Keif variants as spell components for Safir-Afiyun. I'm not saying it might be cost effective, but if you plan to make copious ammounts of them, it might be useful in a pinch.

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